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HalfMoon
Imagine my dismay when today I decided to open the dash (I was trouble shooting a fuel gauge not working-easy fix, PO had cut the wires at the tank for some reason), discovering a huge amount of loose wires. The PO had installed a completly different tach so I'm hoping alot of these wires (11) had a purpose for being disconnected. Vain hope most likely...
I did notice the brake warning light stays on all the time...and of course nothing else works (except the fuel gauge that I just hooked back up). The car is a v-8 converted teener so alot of stuff may be disconnected for that reason as well.
The real problem is that I'm VERY color blind. I can read a schematic reasonably well if I know what color wires I'm looking at on the car, which brings us to the reason for this post!
Could someone help me identify the loose wires I've numbered in the enclosed photograph? What color corresponds to the numbered wires? With that data I should be able to figure out what was supposed to go where and assimilate if it was disconnected for purpose.
Wiring and color blindness can be a serious challenge, so any help is appreciated :-)
David
Oh and btw, if you click on the image and then click again you'll get a very close view
Click to view attachment
Ferg
1. Red/white stripe
2. Green/red stripe
3. Brown
4. White/blue stripe
5. Black
6. Black (maybe white stripe against blue tape?)
7. Blue/white stripe
8. Black/green stripe
9. Black/blue stripe
10.Black/blue stripe
11.Black/blue stripe
HalfMoon
headbang.gif
QUOTE(Ferg @ Aug 27 2013, 05:57 PM) *

1. Red/white stripe
2. Green/red stripe
3. Brown
4. White/blue stripe
5. Black
6. Black (maybe white stripe against blue tape?)
7. Blue/white stripe
8. Black/green stripe
9. Black/blue stripe
10.Black/blue stripe
11.Black/blue stripe

Thank you very much! Now to bury my face in Haynes!
headbang.gif
bulitt
This may help

IPB Image
HalfMoon
QUOTE(bulitt @ Aug 27 2013, 06:05 PM) *

This may help

IPB Image

HUGE help piratenanner.gif
Although it appears to be for some other year than a 1973...
JeffBowlsby
That diagram is for 1974 car... wink.gif

But it should still be somewhat useful if not entirely accurate. The wire colors/stripes should indicate what each goes to per the tabel at the bottom.

The 1973 car has that diode in the circuits for the combo brake warning (master cyl)/ebrake light. The factory schematics will tell you where each wire goes - I think Pelican has them online.
HalfMoon
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Aug 27 2013, 07:12 PM) *

That diagram is for 1974 car... wink.gif

But it should still be somewhat useful if not entirely accurate. The wire colors/stripes should indicate what each goes to per the tabel at the bottom.

The 1973 car has that diode in the circuits for the combo brake warning (master cyl)/ebrake light. The factory schematics will tell you where each wire goes - I think Pelican has them online.


Jeff,
Is it the one enclosed? On the legend I'm not exactly sure of what I'm seeing :-(
The "combo", are they referring to 41 Diode on chart C, legend D?
I see the speedo and tach on Chart A, Legend B but nothing that looks like the combo gauge :-/
Cornfused.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
bulitt
Moonman- I happened to label the back of my cluster on my 73. Couldn't recall I did it, oldsheisers.

So here is a pic.

Click to view attachment

On the speedo the wire coming out the bottom is white/green
--------
On the tach the wires from left to right are-
brown
brown/black
red

and the wire coming out of the bottom of the tach is white/blue
-----------
On the combo clockwise in pic from 1100pm
red
green
brown

the rest of your wires you should be able to determine from Jeffs diagram- black/blue=gauge lights
JeffBowlsby
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 27 2013, 06:03 PM) *

QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Aug 27 2013, 07:12 PM) *

That diagram is for 1974 car... wink.gif

But it should still be somewhat useful if not entirely accurate. The wire colors/stripes should indicate what each goes to per the tabel at the bottom.

The 1973 car has that diode in the circuits for the combo brake warning (master cyl)/ebrake light. The factory schematics will tell you where each wire goes - I think Pelican has them online.


Jeff,
Is it the one enclosed? On the legend I'm not exactly sure of what I'm seeing :-(
The "combo", are they referring to 41 Diode on chart C, legend D?
I see the speedo and tach on Chart A, Legend B but nothing that looks like the combo gauge :-/
Cornfused.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment


Looks right to me...21 is the combo gauge.
Dave_Darling
Note that the wires numbered 9, 10, and 11 are add-ons by some previous owner or previous mechanic. They have blue stripes around the wire, rather than a blue tracer painted along the wire. Painting rings around the wire is easier to do for most of us than the factory-style line along the wire.

Since someone did take the trouble to paint blue on those wires, it is very highly likely that they are connected to the gauge illumination circuit.

--DD
HalfMoon
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 28 2013, 10:04 AM) *

Note that the wires numbered 9, 10, and 11 are add-ons by some previous owner or previous mechanic. They have blue stripes around the wire, rather than a blue tracer painted along the wire. Painting rings around the wire is easier to do for most of us than the factory-style line along the wire.

Since someone did take the trouble to paint blue on those wires, it is very highly likely that they are connected to the gauge illumination circuit.

--DD


Oh that's very informative! I had no idea. The gauge cluster is unlit and I had thought (according to Jeff's handy chart for a 1974) that these were all for illumination. Now I'm not so sure....but easy enough to test when I go out to the garage today.
Thanks DD
HalfMoon
QUOTE(bulitt @ Aug 28 2013, 08:54 AM) *

Moonman- I happened to label the back of my cluster on my 73. Couldn't recall I did it, oldsheisers.

So here is a pic.

Click to view attachment

On the speedo the wire coming out the bottom is white/green
--------
On the tach the wires from left to right are-
brown
brown/black
red

and the wire coming out of the bottom of the tach is white/blue
-----------
On the combo clockwise in pic from 1100pm
red
green
brown

the rest of your wires you should be able to determine from Jeffs diagram- black/blue=gauge lights


Extremely helpful! beer.gif
JeffBowlsby
Actually...

The factory used different striping patterns over the years. Early cars through 1973 have at least some of the wires where the 'stripes' are circumferential. Later cars, the stripes run longitudinally along the length of the wire. And I have found the different striping patterns intermixed on the same harness...maybe a mix of suppliers or striping equipment?

The color coding was similar though - brown is always ground. Black/blue is typically illumination. Each gauge component has its own color code - see the schedule above as a guide.
HalfMoon
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Aug 28 2013, 12:09 PM) *

Actually...

The factory used different striping patterns over the years. Early cars through 1973 have at least some of the wires where the 'stripes' are circumferential. Later cars, the stripes run longitudinally along the length of the wire. And I have found the different striping patterns intermixed on the same harness...maybe a mix of suppliers or striping equipment?

The color coding was similar though - brown is always ground. Black/blue is typically illumination. Each gauge component has its own color code - see the schedule above as a guide.


Ah, so it's as I suspected, 9,10,11 are most likely illumination.
I've managed to get the fuel gauge working, and beyond that the goal was to have gauge illumination, the high beam indicator, flashers and turn signals. The rest (Gen, E brake, brake warning, oil press, fuel reserve, parking light) are things I don't really need.
Btw, without ya'lls valuable input I simply could not get this done as I'm severly color blind. I very much appreciate your help.
JeffBowlsby
This is really sad to see, you are going to have hard time connecting all this up. Someone simply cut off the chassis harness wires to the dash gauges rather than take the 0.2 seconds required to remove the connections. Some of this will require at least soldered spliced-in connections.

NOTHING EVER NEEDS TO BE CUT OFF A WIRING HARNESS, JUST DISCONNECT THINGS!

Some of those wires maybe just needs simple crimped-on 1/4 in female wire terminals if teh wires are long enough to reach their gauges, others may need a light socket which can only be clipped off some other harness.

bulitt
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Aug 28 2013, 03:19 PM) *

This is really sad to see, you are going to have hard time connecting all this up. Someone simply cut off the chassis harness wires to the dash gauges rather than take the 0.2 seconds required to remove the connections. Some of this will require at least soldered spliced-in connections.

NOTHING EVER NEEDS TO BE CUT OFF A WIRING HARNESS, JUST DISCONNECT THINGS!

Some of those wires maybe just needs simple crimped-on 1/4 in female wire terminals if teh wires are long enough to reach their gauges, others may need a light socket which can only be clipped off some other harness.


should be an auto resonse for everyones first post-
dont cut any wires,
handle rubber seals gently
protect your glass
laugh.gif
HalfMoon
Sigh. Well I goofed around with the pod wires some more today and we were right the wires 9, 10, 11 (from the previous photo's) were indeed illumination. So now I have a fuel gauge and the pods illuminated.
Sadly I simply wasn't able to identify the turn signal wires (using a test light-I did find some that corresponded to the turn signal switch, but once tested, they would continue to flash on the dash even when off).
I have at least achieved a working fuel gauge and pod illumination, so now I can drive it at night...if I'm brave.
Most of the other things I didn't need nor would it be possible to connect them (e-brake for instance). The Gen, oil have dedicated gauges elsewhere and I know when my brights are on and when my brakes are having a pressure problem. Pity about the turn signals but the flasher makes a clicking noise when they're in use....
I've enclosed another picture of what is leftover that I have no idea about. Commentary welcome but please remember, this is a 1973 and is quite different than cars built after 1973.
Anywho...thanks alot for all the imput but it's time to move on to some other pressing problems with this car.
D
Click to view attachment
HalfMoon
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 28 2013, 07:45 PM) *

Sigh. Well I goofed around with the pod wires some more today and we were right the wires 9, 10, 11 (from the previous photo's) were indeed illumination. So now I have a fuel gauge and the pods illuminated.
Sadly I simply wasn't able to identify the turn signal wires (using a test light-I did find some that corresponded to the turn signal switch, but once tested, they would continue to flash on the dash even when off).
I have at least achieved a working fuel gauge and pod illumination, so now I can drive it at night...if I'm brave.
Most of the other things I didn't need nor would it be possible to connect them (e-brake for instance). The Gen, oil have dedicated gauges elsewhere and I know when my brights are on and when my brakes are having a pressure problem. Pity about the turn signals but the flasher makes a clicking noise when they're in use....
I've enclosed another picture of what is leftover that I have no idea about. Commentary welcome but please remember, this is a 1973 and is quite different than cars built after 1973.
Anywho...thanks alot for all the imput but it's time to move on to some other pressing problems with this car.
D
Click to view attachment

Still quite baffled. I'd really like to identify what should be the illumination wires for the turn signal indicaters in the combo gauge. I thought I had it when I used a test light and operated the switch but when I placed the lever in the neutral position the flashers turned off but the indicater lights in the gauge kept flashing. I can't tell the color wires so they're numbered. Can anyone read the schematic (several post up) and tell me the number (very color blind) wires that "should" trigger the turn signal gauge lights?
bulitt
David- I crawled up on the lift to look at mine-

The turn signal bulbs each need a blue/white
So hook up number 4 to one bulb and number 5 to the other bulb.

Then each bulb needs either a black/white or black/green.
So I'm guessing because they are taped together hook up
the black/white - number 6 to the left indicator and
the black/green - number 8 (yes it is black/green) to the right.

Number three appears to be a black/white also? but outside the bunch taped together.

Looks to me like you have a 1971 or 1972 fuel gauge? So looking at the 1973 schematic does you no good as the turn signal indicators in the 73 are in the tachometer.
Is your speedo 120mph or 150?
HalfMoon
QUOTE(bulitt @ Aug 29 2013, 04:47 PM) *

David- I crawled up on the lift to look at mine-

The turn signal bulbs each need a blue/white
So hook up number 4 to one bulb and number 5 to the other bulb.

Then each bulb needs either a black/white or black/green.
So I'm guessing because they are taped together hook up
the black/white - number 6 to the left indicator and
the black/green - number 8 (yes it is black/green) to the right.

Number three appears to be a black/white also? but outside the bunch taped together.

Looks to me like you have a 1971 or 1972 fuel gauge? So looking at the 1973 schematic does you no good as the turn signal indicators in the 73 are in the tachometer.
Is your speedo 120mph or 150?

Thanks for that help, I'll try it a lil later on tonight. Big hopes!
I do have the 1973 150 mph speedo (compared my back to the site you sent me), but I agree, the combo must be out of something earlier. Perhaps a PO thought to include turn signal indicators as they changed to an aftermarket tach to facilitate accuracy when converting to a v-8?
Huge thank you for the insight and identification of those wires!
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(bulitt @ Aug 29 2013, 01:47 PM) *

David- I crawled up on the lift to look at mine-

The turn signal bulbs each need a blue/white
So hook up number 4 to one bulb and number 5 to the other bulb.

Then each bulb needs either a black/white or black/green.
So I'm guessing because they are taped together hook up
the black/white - number 6 to the left indicator and
the black/green - number 8 (yes it is black/green) to the right.

Number three appears to be a black/white also? but outside the bunch taped together.

Looks to me like you have a 1971 or 1972 fuel gauge? So looking at the 1973 schematic does you no good as the turn signal indicators in the 73 are in the tachometer.
Is your speedo 120mph or 150?

They all had turn signal lights in the tach, no? If it's an early fuel gauge the 2 bulbs at the top (or bottom in the picture) are the brake warning/hand brake lights. The wires that go to the turn signal lights in the tach would indeed be the blk/blu and blk/wht along with the light blue/wht which goes to both sides, except his tach appears to be some other make probably for the V-8 and doesn't seem to have turn signal lights at all. I guess you could hook them up to the brake warning bulbs and have 2 big red turn signal lights. smile.gif
The wht/grn wire is for the parking light warning light (comes on when the running lights are on, but not the headlights) and the wht/blu wire is for the high beam warning light.
Edit: reread your second and third lines: The #4 wire in his picture is the only one you would want to connect to turn signal lights, gets bridges between them and is the power source for both. The wht/blu wire #5 is for the high beam warning light.
bulitt
Got that David?
Number 4 hooks to both lights
6 to left
8 to right
And as Jonathan points out you have no indicators in the tach, so you can hook up the top two brake warning bulbs. Thought they were indicator bulbs, sorry.
HalfMoon
QUOTE(bulitt @ Aug 29 2013, 06:48 PM) *

Got that David?
Number 4 hooks to both lights
6 to left
8 to right
And as Jonathan points out you have no indicators in the tach, so you can hook up the top two brake warning bulbs. Thought they were indicator bulbs, sorry.


I'm slightly confused.
For clarity sake....yep, I'm going to use those illumination pots for turn sighnal indicators. I've decided to use BOTH lights.
So, are we saying 4 (blue/wht) goes to one pole on one light and then needs a jumper to the other light and then 6 goes on one pole and 8 goes on the the other pole of the other light, right.
I suppose the confusion is in 4. Do I need to jump 4 to the second light? That seems to make sense if it's the power and I need power to both bulbs...
bulitt
yes
HalfMoon
piratenanner.gif
AWESOME!
It worked and now my former brake warning lamps operate as turn signal indicators!
Thank you all who's valuable input made it possible for a severely color blind meathead to do electrical work pray.gif

Next fun project, repair wiper switch (high position not working-formerly did, but after I did some work in the colum, I must have goofed sumthin) and turn signal switch not tripping right side blinker unless manipulated quite forcefully.
Again, much thanks you guys. Having you in my corner actually makes figuring this stuff out fun!
HalfMoon
Durnit! Just when I thought we had it nailed mad.gif
The indicator lights we rigged up work, true; but unfortunately when I turn the headlights on both indicators come on at the dash and stay lite which is to say they aren't blinking, just on (and the blinkers themselves stay offm unless I turn them on).
As an aside, if I turn the car off with a blinker on, all the running lights come on (and it always did this).
So, now I'm stumped again. Why on earth would the turn signal dash idicators come on when the headlights are on?
Ugh.
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 02:15 PM) *

Durnit! Just when I thought we had it nailed mad.gif
The indicator lights we rigged up work, true; but unfortunately when I turn the headlights on both indicators come on at the dash and stay lite which is to say they aren't blinking, just on (and the blinkers themselves stay offm unless I turn them on).
As an aside, if I turn the car off with a blinker on, all the running lights come on (and it always did this).
So, now I'm stumped again. Why on earth would the turn signal dash idicators come on when the headlights are on?
Ugh.

Did you use the blue white striped wire or the white blue striped wire?
HalfMoon
QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Aug 30 2013, 06:21 PM) *

QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 02:15 PM) *

Durnit! Just when I thought we had it nailed mad.gif
The indicator lights we rigged up work, true; but unfortunately when I turn the headlights on both indicators come on at the dash and stay lite which is to say they aren't blinking, just on (and the blinkers themselves stay offm unless I turn them on).
As an aside, if I turn the car off with a blinker on, all the running lights come on (and it always did this).
So, now I'm stumped again. Why on earth would the turn signal dash idicators come on when the headlights are on?
Ugh.

Did you use the blue white striped wire or the white blue striped wire?


Color blind. I used number #4 wire as marked in the picture which I was told is Blue with a white stripe.
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 03:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Aug 30 2013, 06:21 PM) *

QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 02:15 PM) *

Durnit! Just when I thought we had it nailed mad.gif
The indicator lights we rigged up work, true; but unfortunately when I turn the headlights on both indicators come on at the dash and stay lite which is to say they aren't blinking, just on (and the blinkers themselves stay offm unless I turn them on).
As an aside, if I turn the car off with a blinker on, all the running lights come on (and it always did this).
So, now I'm stumped again. Why on earth would the turn signal dash idicators come on when the headlights are on?
Ugh.

Did you use the blue white striped wire or the white blue striped wire?


Color blind. I used number #4 wire as marked in the picture which I was told is Blue with a white stripe.

Which picture? In the picture at the top of the thread the wire labeled #4 is the wht/blu and the wire labeled #7 is the blu/wht. In the picture in post 17 the wht/blu is #5 and the correct blu/wht is #4. You want the wire that is #7 in the first post and #4 in the second post. That other wire (#4 in the first post of the thread) is 12volts to the high beam warning light when the high beams are activated.

BTW the running lights on the side that the turn signal switch is turned towards will come on when the car is shut off. If both sides come on then you've got another problem, but separate from the turn signal one.
HalfMoon
QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Aug 30 2013, 07:31 PM) *

QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 03:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Aug 30 2013, 06:21 PM) *

QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 02:15 PM) *

Durnit! Just when I thought we had it nailed mad.gif
The indicator lights we rigged up work, true; but unfortunately when I turn the headlights on both indicators come on at the dash and stay lite which is to say they aren't blinking, just on (and the blinkers themselves stay offm unless I turn them on).
As an aside, if I turn the car off with a blinker on, all the running lights come on (and it always did this).
So, now I'm stumped again. Why on earth would the turn signal dash idicators come on when the headlights are on?
Ugh.

Did you use the blue white striped wire or the white blue striped wire?


Color blind. I used number #4 wire as marked in the picture which I was told is Blue with a white stripe.

Which picture? In the picture at the top of the thread the wire labeled #4 is the wht/blu and the wire labeled #7 is the blu/wht. In the picture in post 17 the wht/blu is #5 and the correct blu/wht is #4. You want the wire that is #7 in the first post and #4 in the second post. That other wire (#4 in the first post of the thread) is 12volts to the high beam warning light when the high beams are activated.

BTW the running lights on the side that the turn signal switch is turned towards will come on when the car is shut off. If both sides come on then you've got another problem, but separate from the turn signal one.

Reckon I'll unzip it and snap a picture so ya'll can double check it for me :-(
HalfMoon
Pretty sure I goofed
What say you'ze
Click to view attachment
Jonathan Livesay
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 30 2013, 06:41 PM) *

Pretty sure I goofed
What say you'ze
Click to view attachment

Yup.
bulitt
Yes, the one you are holding should go to the turn signal indicators. The one you attached to the indicators goes to the high beam indicator light as Jonathan indicates. Maybe you should put number tags on the wires in future pics. Also, you may want to get a proper tach down the road and hook up all the proper indicators? They are cheap in the classifieds. You can use the 914 tach with your V8 with one of these adapters-
Tach Adapter
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