Okay, well after a day thinking about my day at the track yesterday I am quite curious what it would cost to get someone else to fix the hell-hole. I honestly dont even know anyone close to New Orleans that would work on this thing. Anyone got any ideas of a reputable shop in my vicinity and what I should expect to pay.

I have access to my own shop and a couple really good welder buddies but I am just intimidated by the project. Some of the repairs I have seen here are so extensive

How bad is it? Show us some pics ...

I would love to do this myself if possible but I have just never done any kind of metal work. I only have a few pics at the moment and it is hard for me to tell what would be involved in fixing it but Im sure you guys can tell a lot more. What other pics would be helpful? I can take off the rocker panels but I just dont want to lose the drywall screws holding them in hahah; previous owners do weird things

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You pull the engine and interior. Budget $ 6k but who knows until you pull the engine and interior

From those pics I'd guess there's some more hidden nastiness lurking.
Disassemble to obtain better access, then start poking questionable areas.

don't be fully invested in restoring this particular car until you know the FULL extent of the rust. based in these pics, you are looking at a big bill and that is before bondo and paint.

some potential areas of rust...

That looks like you have some substantial rust in the longs. That's the backbone of your car.

Not good ...

So are you guys saying that this is beyond repair or just beyond being worth repairing? If I dont repair it then what else do I do with it? Is there are market for one like this?

that looks more extensive than just the hell hole.
show us a picture of the longitudinal please

I'd be aprehensive of tracking this car until its repaired.

No, it's not beyond repair, but it doesn't look like a quick fix. You'll have to invest some time and money to fix this right.

This thread will give you a good idea of what is involved in fixing this:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748



In the meantime, please don't take it back to the track.

Maybe I should just be looking at getting something else instead. I know now that I overpaid for this one but is there anyway I can sell this one?

I've purchased two rust free rollers from out west. I have less in the pair (before building the cars of course) that that rust repair will cost you.

My advise unless there is some attachment is to buy a roller with less rust and transfer the parts.

What would a rust free roller cost me? Or rather, what should it cost me?

with the advice of keeping it off the track. I know you mentioned you had a blast last weekend, but please don't risk it. That's pretty bad.

Have you considered trying the repair yourself? Plenty of threads here to explain the process, you'll get better at welding as you go, and Restoration Design has just about every piece of metal you'll need.

The quick and (easier) way of going about it is getting a shell from out west. Mikey914 just got rid of a fairly nice car not too long ago unfortunately, if I remember. Post a WTB ad here and have some of our west coast bretheren do some searching for you. Expect to spend 2-3k on the shell, depending on it's condition. Then another 500-1k shipping it to you. At least I think those numbers are what I've heard before.

$2k +/-

A really nice car was in the classifieds for weeks. Just sold over the holiday weekend. Fresh paint and lost of parts.

Watch the classifieds everyday.

I'm not saying your car is un-repairable. I'm just saying if you have the option and no one you trust is close enough to do the repairs there are still nice shells or half done cars for sale. That may be a better choice.

in the aviation business, they have a term, BER, beyond economical repair.

any 914 generally has quite a few sellable parts.

nice/decent tubs come along from time to time for between $1-2k.

most cars need more than just rust repair, bondo and paint.

most need suspension $2k, brakes $1k, fuel $300, engine $?, work as well.

a 914 owner really needs to set a realistic budget based in facts and real costs.

anyway - current list is here...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...;hl=rust+repair

Thanks for all the replies. I unfortunately dont really have the money to put into another tub at the moment but the one thing I do have is lots of free time. So basically I have decided on a two-pronged approach. I will continue to watch the classifieds for a good deal on a tub, but at the same time I will dive into the mess that I have now as well. I imagine any tub I would get would eventually need a paint job so that is pretty much a sunk cost no matter which way I go. However, if I can get this repair done with what I have for the cost of some parts and my time (and some beer bribes for some welding) I can get it done for way less. Plus, I am sure I will learn a lot more not just about 914s but just body work in general. Thanks for the kick in the to get me to try! I will update pics as I start getting into it. I am sure mine isnt the worst one anyone has tried to repair

dont feel bad, I am in the same boat, mine is in worse shape, i think everyone will agree.

The one thing i have going for me is that the PO reinforced the longs with 1/4" steel on the inside and outside. Mine wont be show quality but I can jump up and down on the drivers seat and open and close the doors at the same time, lol. I need to pull the engine and work on the metal below the battery tray. I have a VW beetle that I am parting out so guess where my metal is coming from, lol. It wont be sexy on the bottom but it will be all there and solid

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?pid=5939...778145826564225

Good for you. I know a lot of folks see it as easier just to do a tub swap, but for those of us on the east coast, that's a bit more costly. Plus, there will come a time when the amount of good shells will dry up, and those of us who decided to repair our cars instead of scrapping them will have the piece of mind that we saved even just one more 914.

Good decision. Take your time and do it right. You'll appreciate the car even more when your done.

I just cant see spending another 2k-3k to get a tub and ship it all the way here.


Thanks for the encouragement. I am a bit nervous about what I will find but I am not one to back down from something once I get started so I guess I just need to start

Where should I get everything for the repairs? It seems like a lot of people are using a stiffening kit in place of the damaged longs. Is that the way to go? Fortunately I should have access to plenty of steel so I would like to fabricate some of the pieces if possible.

I guess the first step really is just to pull it apart and start poking. Should I drop the motor before I do anything else?

Engine out, interior out (carpet and back pad and latch pillar stuff) Then see what you have.

It's the only way to tell what you'll need. Even then, you'll end up ordering more, I promise.

IMHO, for the most part, forget fabricating stuff if it's your first time. I went that route as a learning experience and if I had to do it over again, I would have just spent the money on the correct stamped replacement panels from Restoration Design. You'll spend more time and money on grinding wheels and other supplies than it's worth and probably won't be as happy with the results. Some small pieces and patches will need to be fabricated along the way, but for the most part, order the right panels and you'll be happy. See my thread in my signature if you like.

If it were me, I wouldn't just weld in some stiffening kit over the longs. Do it right, open them up and cut out the rust. Otherwise it'll be back sooner than you think.

No! Stop right there. Please, just don't ...

A stiffening kit is meant for a SOLID car that sees additional stress, like AX or racing.
It is *not* to be used as a shortcut for rust repair!

There are plenty of threads here about fixing rust in those areas, from easy to hard to "are you nuts?".
It's all been done before ...

as you can see, some of us are optimists and some of us are pesimists

I am all for those that choose (and have the skills) to rescue a rusted tub.

and by no means is swapping everything over to a different tub, a walk in the park.

nor will a new tub not be in need of any repairs.

here are decent rust repair threads...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=36326
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=79106

http://www.restoration-design.com/

all the best, looking forward to watching this thread progess,
jim

Thanks for the advice! I am a bit overwhelmed but I guess that is natural. I will start a new thread as soon as I get started. Ugh! Wish me luck!

We've seen some guys on this board do some miraculous repairs on tubs that many of us would have scrapped.

Depending on how extensive the damage is on your existing car, you might consider picking up a tub that has good sections you can take from?



Assess the whole tub and go from there ...

One last question...I have been looking at this all day and I am thinking that I may start this project just as soon as it gets too hot here to enjoy the car any longer (probably in spring). There are only so many months of nice weather in Louisiana and I want to enjoy it running while I can. How safe is it to drive as a daily driver if I am not really beating on it that hard? Can I safely put this off and just drive it for a while? Is it mainly the track that I need to worry about?

Don't take the top off and make sure the floor pans behind both seats aren't complete swiss cheese.
Use a screwdriver since the floor tar will hide rust very well, even terminal rust in the pans.

Also make sure your passenger side rear suspension ear and console haven't cracked, they like to rust from the inside out.

If all that checks out OK, i think you'll be fine driving it until spring.

until you can provide pics of the areas I provided pics of above, I would say you should not be driving that car.

pull the interior firewall pad out, carpets too. seats have a little tang that you have to push on to get seats out all the way.

remove the valences under doors, so we can see the rear sections of the longs.

a pic of the area under the battery will tell a lot.

the rusted triangle piece in your pic above is not structural, like the long is.

your battery area pic shows the area about 12" rearward from the area you need to be really investigating.

imagine your car dropping to the ground at 60mph, would not be safe.

jim

Can you keep driving it?

Put a floor jack under the passenger side and jack it up so both right side wheels are off the ground. Can you open or close the door? If not, the chassis may be too weak to drive much.

You be the judge...

On the West coast we may be a little spoiled with plenty of tubs around. I recommend swapping tubs for 2 reasons: 1) Cost- It will be far cheaper in the long run to find a good tub and swap parts. 2) Aggravation- You are going to find way more rust than you think. The visible rust is only about 20% of what's there. This leads back to reason 1.

Whatever you choose to do, our community will support you all the way.

Good comments above. Painted Man's advice about Restoration Design is correct. I fabricated my parts, and wasted a lot of time and money.

If you start this project you will discover that each time you take something off, or go a little deeper, there will be something else that needs to be addressed. You might think about taking it down completely to the tub, then doing the welding, then stripping and painting, and then putting it all back together. Essentially everything you will need is available on this web site, and there are lots of knowledgeable people here who are happy to help.

Right now I'm down to the tub, getting ready to paint. I've rebuilt the brakes (another mistake - go talk to Eric Shea, although I did want to see the inside of the rear calipers), rebuilt the transmission at Dr. Evil's Ontario clinic (and met some neat people), and collected an A-load of rubber parts from 914Rubber.

There is no quick fix, you should think of this as a long term project.

Olin

I found that my "perfectionist" side has yielded a much nicer and probably stronger car than my "that will work" side.

Tear-down, repair.... Engine and Body took me 26 months all by myself. And that is just getting it to being drive-able. A labor of love needs to be perfect. Take your time and start on it sooner rather than later.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, you can do this with the help of this community.

Before getting my hands really dirty with my car, there were a few things that I knew it needed, but I put off because I was not necessarily intimidated, but I somewhat worried that I wouldn't have the skills or patience to pull it off. I can say without question that most everything I have accomplished on my car has been easier than I thought it would be, and the satisfaction you get from doing it yourself and knowing it is done right is incredibly valuable.

When you finish fixing it, you will know exactly what you have, and it will mean more to you.

Best of luck!

I know where there is a car you should go after. He is asking 2K for everything and he has over 2K worth of repairpanels from Restoration Design. Between your car and his package deal, you should be in great shape.


Shoe


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=225591

I thought that triangle was structural since it has the jacking donut in it?

Right, but the donut actually is located on top of the long, and the triangle is sandwiched between the two. The triangle ties the back of the firewall and the long together for a little extra stiffening.

Well that might actually be a good thing then. I only see rust towards the rear of the long itself and the hole that starts under the battery tray only goes straight down through that triangle. No doubt I will have to cut into the long but maybe it isnt as bad as I thought. This weekend I will know A LOT more.

If the remainder of the outside of the long is in good shape, you can potentially save yourself some effort by drilling out the spot welds, rather than cutting right into the long. Do a search here to find out how to drill them out the right way. Rick likes to grind them down, while others like to use a spot weld cutting bit. These are available online, but harbor freight has them as well, though I can't comment on the quality. You'll also need a punch to put a small indentation in the top of each spot weld for the bit to have something to center on.

Of course before you do ANY of this, you need to look into bracing the car between the door mounting post and the rear door latch.

Is this to keep the car true as I start to cut? I saw someone used what looked like all-thread and some turnbuckles with one end mounted to the door hinge and the other the seatbelt mount.

That is correct, except the preferred location is the door hinges and the door latch striker area. My first welding on my car was when I made these very braces. However, since they are so crucial to keeping your door gaps correct and any twist out of the chassis while you do your repairs, maybe you want to consider buying a well-made set that you can then re-sell here. Tangerine Racing makes them and if I had it to do over again, that's the route I would have gone.

Door hinges panel and latch panel move quite a bit.
Show more pics of the area and be prepared to build a real bracing system welded to the inside of the long, with diagonals and measurements all around to keep the car square.

Weld slowly.
To much heat and the longs shrink which closes the door gaps at the bottom and can twist you chassis.

Many here have done this repair, and many learned to weld on a 914.
Listen to advice, many scars are here, and lots of people will warn you about mistakes that they have made, so pst pics and don't take short cuts....it will be fine.