Hi all, new to this community but a longtime Porsche and 914 enthusiast. Maybe I should have posed this question in the marketplace section but I figure that the same people are here, maybe even more of them.

I recently acquired a 1974 914 2.0, factory black with original fuel injection intact. It runs great and has had at least a partial rebuild with Mahle sport pistons, (slightly higher CR), plus a lot of other maintenance. It's set up for track/autocross with racing seats, Konis all around and adjustable sways. It presently has Khumo DOT slicks on factory Fuchs 914 alloys. It's a go-cart. It also has Pagid race pads, a little squeaky on the street. Also a Bursch muffler.

My plan was to return it to 90-95% stock and restore it. It has almost zero rust, including the "hell hole" under battery and other traditional places. The dash is very clean and not cracked but original seats and console are not present. I have a pretty good source for those.

The body is mostly straight but the rear trunk hinge needs repair, (common failure on these cars). The only troubling thing is that the right rear fender appears to be "off" a little, gap between it and trunk seems too large. The car has some additional bracing in rear part of pan, (track mod), and I suspect that removing it might cure the problem but not sure. These are all issues to be addressed during a restoration and I have good body sources.

The car drives great and is a blast. Shifts well with a good transmission.

I may sell it to pursue another Porsche opportunity, what am I sitting on here? In a perfect world, I would never sell it and restore it. They are rare in this configuration, (black/73-74 2.0). I know what perfect '73-'74 2 liters go for but this car is not that. It is a rust-free car to restore or drive as-is, however.

Any educated responses are highly appreciated! Thanks,

Denis

$5k-$10k in California

Do you have a COA? Might be a LE bumblebee ...

I assume you are asking about this car?

Pictures in this thread...


Today's Score - Pelican Parts

Yes, Bill. One and the same. As my post above states, I really want to keep it but might have to flip it for the greater good, Porsche-wise.

I don't think it was a bumble bee, since it has chrome bumpers. I do not have a COA or kardex for it.

I know that it's worth between $5-10k but that's a wide spread. 10 is 5x2.

Also, I did not buy it with the intention of flipping it. Circumstances might dictate it, though. How much the thing is actually worth would help the decision a lot.

It has some extremely positive attributes but realistically needs and deserves to be restored fully. I've done a few things since I bought it and gotten the registration up to date.

I suggest you post several pictures. It's hard to say without seeing the car.

Pics of the longs, hell hole, floorboards, etc... will help determine value.

OK, I don't have close-ups of the hell hole or longitudinals but base your valuation on it having NO RUST. It truly does not. Also, no evidence of ever having been so much as bumped front or rear. The front trunk floor under spare tire needs to be replaced, but not because of accident or rust. The PO cut two rectangular sections out to vent an auxiliary oil cooler, (another track mod).

Here are a few pics:

OK, scratch that. This site does not automatically re-size photos/files, so I just added them to the Pelican thread. look on the first and last page of this thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-d...-914-2-0-a.html

I will take close-ups of the battery hell hole area as well as others for anyone interested in the car. But you can base your valuation estimates on it having no rust, as in none present and none previously repaired. It's why i bought the car. It's not a case of, "the rust isn't 'too bad'..." It's not there.

Thanks.

LE air dam, grey headlight motors and painted sail panels..... What is the vin ? That will determine if it's in the LE range of #s and whether you should get a COA.

VIN is 4742914751. It does have those plastic rockers that have raised letters "PORSCHE" on them, just assumed they were added by someone.

Were those part of LE package? I was under memory or impression that those had painted bumpers.

Looks like a known VIN but listed as "Insufficient data to include in surviving 914 Can Am car count"

https://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Contact Jeff Bowlsby for more info. A COA would be the defining answer.

Its within the LE VIN range, it could be an early 914 LE, but maybe not. Assuming its paint label says L041, they would have had to change the bumpers and wheels and other trim items, but that would not have been uncommon or hard to do. Call 1-800-PORSCHE ext 5 and inquire whether or not it is an LE. It should have the U1V9 paint code and option M778 Can Am Equipment, they can verify it over the phone, if its real, then order their COA. Once an LE always an LE.

Thanks for the info, Jeff. I called Porsche and within 3-5 days, they should get back to me with the equipment info on the car. It seems very likely that it was a LE car, based on the spoiler and lack of appearance group vinyl on the sail panels. Someone must have switched it to chrome bumpers, (or had the originals chromed), and switched to Fuchs rims.

Or could it have been a non-bumblebee with spoiler and painted sail panels? I guess the mystery will be revealed soon. As for being an "early LE", it seems to be a couple hundred cars after yours? Your car must be very early.

Is the spoiler aftermarket or of the original style. You can pull it and check.

Say keep he car. Don't flip it
It's modified enough that I would price it at 6500- 7500 if it is as rust free as you say

Has it been re sprayed?

Also, FWIW, I owned this Marathon Blue 2.0 car in 1976 that never existed according to 914 magazine ads I've seen from the time. My car had no appearance group, (painted sail panels and bumpers), with plain steel wheels and hubcaps. But it was definitely a 1973 914 2.0 with center console, gauges, etc.

the ads I've seen all reference the 2.0 cars having appearance group, Fuchs alloys, etc.

Click to view attachment

The 73-74 years are not really magical. The early cars have less weight and mid year cars were already pushing 2200lbs

I'd love to keep it and restore it but it doesn't fit in with other car plans right now. In a perfect world, I'd have a warehouse full of great cars with a private shop, etc. In the real world, I live in an apartment in Los Angeles and have a couple of rented garages.

Also, oddly enough I have never cared for the LE package look, particularly the "bumblebee" cars. I much prefer chrome bumpers, Fuchs rims and appearance group cars. It should go to a collector who really wants this particular car.

Thanks for the responses.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I could not disagree more. Have you actually owned the various years in stock form? There were MASSIVE improvements to the 914 in the 1973 MY, (some occurred in '72 MY).

I only go back about 40 years with 914 ownership, maybe you have more experience.

My 1971 914, (before the '73):
Click to view attachment

The spoliers were available separately from the dealer, and its not clear from your photo if this is an original LE spoiler.

My Bumblebee is VIN 14536, so we are a couple hundred apart, but Early-Late - I don't think it makes any difference really. There are only a handful of LE's still surviving, that is the important point.

Interest in your car by a collector will be influenced by its mods. If it is an LE, then to take it back to original configuration by a collector will take some work and influence its present value, but once an LE, always an LE.

Anxious to hear what PCNA says.

I do have plenty of experience and the differences are really not major
Shifting for example is easily updated

As a buyer to store a car in a museum or even as a buyer intending to drive a car, the original paint, condition, and originality add more to the value than model year

The differences between a 1964 ford cobra and a 1974 ford cobra are significant

A 71 914 and a 74 914 are more about condition than differences

AH... but it is not a 64 FORD cobra but a 64 AC cobra. Different parent companies.

Ok...
I'll give you AC versus Ford...

but what about this:

I'm having a hard time finding an engine serial number, shouldn't it be at base of oil filler? There is nothing.

Yes, the serial number is just forward of the filler neck, toward the car's interior. There should be a vacuum hose that runs above it and has an attachment point just to the driver's side of the number.

maybe its a 1.7? the number is in a different place for some

Car & Driver, March 1973:
Click to view attachment

Wow...
I wish I had three early chrome bumper corvettes in my possesion instead of 3 914's.... The same original price equals money in the bank!


I agree a 2.0 is better than a 1.7
but I would take a solid chassis 1,7 that has never been rusted or wrecked over any rusty 73

I can always add sway bars, shifters, or even a 2.0 motor to a 1.7 much easier than fixing rust...

the differences are minor in that they have the same body and same mechanicals

yes there are some special editions, GT's and -6's that are more rare
but of the 100K normal 914's built, there really is amazingly little difference over the years. Same thing with 911's... it all easily bolts in, up, backwards, etc....

as a buyer 1973-74 does nothing for me
and condition does everything


and I don't see the day in our life times where a 1973 normal 914 commands a premium over a 1972 just because of the year (versus equiptment and condition)

I know a 1972 911S commands a premium over a 1977 911, but ..... its not going to happen.

the 1972 911S is rare because it was an S model
neither 72 or 73 914's were really S models.
neither were limited, or had huge HP differences than the other
isn't the 73 914 2.0 factory rated for 9 extra hp over a 1972 1.7?
and what do you bet that the extra 100lbs of weight (including door braces) actually made it no faster.

I like to use and drive cars
and I still choose the one that is most tailored to my tastes and in the best condition... not year.

and if I was purchasing for a museum collection, it would be even more true that I would take a 10,000 original mileage, pristine, perfect condition 1971 with a 1.7 over a worn out 1974 model for the granite display floor

absolutely completely equal condition, miles, records and everything down to the dust settled on top... I'd take the 1973-74 over a 72 just to save myself the work of bolting things on/off. but thats not how it works and I don't see multiple thousands of value in one year over the other.

I'd bet a lot that the opposite was true, actually. R&T test results from back in the day show that the 1.7 was over 3 seconds slower to 60 mph than the 2-liter. And note that R&T reported the 2-liter was running poorly during the tests, so perhaps the difference was even greater (though I doubt R&T could have matched the times laid down by C&D ..... R&T's times were always slower).

Road & Track, April 1970 (914 1.7-liter):
Click to view attachment


Road & Track, February 1973 (914 2-liter):
Click to view attachment

Car & Driver, March 1973 (914 2-liter):
Click to view attachment

the high compression 1.7 was I believe 92hp
the 2.0 from 1973 I believe was 100hp


maybe I'm off a couple.. but it wasn't much difference really
and certainly not the original $3K price difference

nice, your own scan's from the magazines show
1.7 at 85hp
2.0 at 91hp


hooray for 6hp!

hey I'm not debating that the 2.0 is a better motor
and the chassis of a 2.0 is a better chassis with sway bars


but they have the same chassis
the same brakes
the same nearly everything

and its easy to change a motor, change a motor mount, change a shifter.....
its not easy to fix a rusted out piece of crap, versus a good chassis

buy the best chassis
don't buy the best year

They still reported horsepower in SAE gross in 1970. 1973 horsepower ratings are SAE net. Look at the 0-60 mph times ..... enough said.

Yes, you can change the engine, the gearbox, the seats, the dash ..... everything really to match the '73 2-liter. But it just reinforces the fact that the '73 2-liter was a significant improvement over the early cars, which was the point the OP was trying to make.

I believe the comment was that there were "MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS"

I agree there were some improvements
but as I stated... no reason to think that a 1973 car is worth significantly more $ than anyother year

and condition trumps year...

I think all of my comments are directed at the OP's "MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS" comment


its not that many changes
it can be done in one day by one person...


I hope the OP keeps the car and enjoys it
gets back into his youth if you will
I hate to see someone pick up a car for a song and flip it with no real attempt to remember how much fun these cars are.

<begin running joke>
What if it is a 73-74 2.0L and is yellow? I hear the yellow cars are even faster.
<end running joke>

I'm with ya on the chassis for non concourse type cars. I'll take a rust free chassis of any year over a rusty 2.0L. Besides, take the rust-free 74 1.8L, convert to a /6 and the car is worth way more than a 2.0L /4 (primarily due to parts). However, IMHO if it is an original survivor 73-74 2.0L (original paint, motor, etc...) it will be worth even more than a converted /6 someday.

That's probably a late '73 2-liter with the sport group package, order type code 473744 or 473764. It's the only 2-liter, other than the Limited Editions, that didn't have vinyl on the sail panels.

Look here on Jeff Bowlsby's Model Numbers page: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ModelNumbers.htm

"...and condition trumps year..."

1) WTF is talking about buying rusted-out, POS cars?? Not me, that's for sure. I know that condition is the number one consideration in a 40 yr. old car. I want the best model in the best condition. I have a '74 2.0 with a;most zero rust and no accidents in a great color. That should settle that.

2)Yes, you can "change the engine/trans and suspension components and build a 914 2.0 clone out of an earlier car. Why on earth would you want to? These are not exactly $600k '73 911 Carrera RSes, are they? You can just buy the best one on earth for relatively small money, less than the cost of a new Kia turd hauler. These cars are around, not rare but not common either. I'll concede that good, unmolested 2.0 cars are somewhat rare and bring good $$.

3) Maybe "massive" was the wrong word. "significant" would not be, though. When you are talking about 2 seconds off of a 0-60 time or 1/4 mile in what was an underpowered car to start with, and the sweetest type 4 engine ever built, it changed the car. Add in the better shifting trans, ( a real weak spot in the car previously), and the tighter suspension+ new forged rims, etc., it's a case of bunch of small things being greater than their sum. Again, IMO, but also in auto journalists opinion and the market's opinion today.

4) As for what I should do with my car, I do not need nor did I ask for advice. I'll do whatever suits me, either sell it/keep it/restore it/whatever. The purpose of this thread is to put a value on it and help me decide. That's the only deciding factor this week. I will not be going backwards in my Porsche collection this year, I can assure you that. And I'll buy a mint '73/'74 2 liter 914 one day, and pay the going rate for it.

A bit testy aren't you? Relax..it's just the internet.... where everyone has a 12" dick, everyone is a millionaire and everyone looks like Brad Pitt.

As far as value...well...you can look through this site all day long and see sold cars. A '73 or '74 2.0 that is PROVEN to have no rust, is in excellent running condition, has very good paint and interior will sell for $7 to $10K on the East Coast. Naturally, as you approach concours level value goes up significantly. A documented LE in similar condition will sell for more...maybe $1K to $5K more depending on how far it has been changed from original.

West Coast prices tend to be a little less due to the availability of less rusty cars and more supply in general.

You come here to a forum of enthusiasts and proclaim that that you scored a sweetheart deal & the first thing you do is want advice on how much the car might be worth so you can flip it

Wadd'ya expect, Take a chill pill

I did? Hmmm...must be even more senile than I thought. Can you direct me to that post, where I told all of you that I "scored a sweetheart deal"?

I did allude to that on the Pelican thread, thought only in response to a question of what I paid. Wish I had not now, it's no one's business. I have 20k posts there and we know each other, I was simply showing-off my latest car find. BillH decided to "help me out" and link that thread to this one, whatever.

As to "flipping", I've almost never sold a car immediately after buying it and never a Porsche. I've owned 6 or 7 Porsches and over 100 other vehicles in this lifetime. That said, there is nothing wrong with flipping something to buy something else, or just because it was a smoking deal and could not be passed up. I have not offered the car for sale to members of this forum, (yet), nor to anyone else. I am still deciding what to do with it.

Inquiring about its value here seemed like a good idea since this is the biggest concentration of 914 geeks online. And don't take that the wrong way, I'm a complete geek and I've never stopped loving the 914 since it came out when I was 10 years old and the hot airline stewardess on our block had one.

WHat I expected was a bunch of guys and gals who really know 914s including keeping up with the latest market trends. I could tell you what any 911 is worth down to the penny in what region but I'm eons behind when it comes to 914s.

My response was directed only at brant, who is probably cool but seems like he got to the bar three hours before the rest of us and want's to argue about the differences in 914s. It's asinine but just the kind of thing that internet forums thrive on, and I took the bait. Sorry for that. The book on 914s is a relatively short one, as Porsche stories go, and there is no mystery about the development history of the cars.

I appreciate any relevant info on what I might have and what it might be worth. If I do pass it on to someone else, I'd rather do it through enthusiast channels such as this board than on eBay. That is all.

If you haven't found it already, the serial number should be under the hose highlighted in green:
Click to view attachment

Thanks. It's not there, nor does it seem to be in the 1.7 spot either. I'm about to contact the shop that built the engine, they have a pretty good name in SoCal. Stay tuned.

maybe its a bus block

It is closer to the back than the green spot! It is very hard to see without a mirror! I took a photo of one yesterday so I could see it! The green mark is on the bottom section of the photo so you have to climb in and stick your head way down to see it! Some carb cleaner and a rag will help!

Was on the phone for a while today with a couple of shops. Seems I have a replacement case with no numbers on it. It is a 2.0 motor all the way, (someone walked me through several identifying features on phone with my head under hood), and not a bus motor or 1.7.

What this does to the value, I have no idea. I did find out about some other maintenance done, such as a trans rebuild and clutch a few years ago, etc.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on engine value. Look around, many of us, perhaps a majority, have "upgraded" in some fashion. I replaced my '73 2.0 D-Jet with a 2056 dual Weber setup - IMHO well worth it in driving fun. I personally would pay more for a decent 2056 setup than a 2.0 D-Jet, but that is me.

You are asking for a value, but w/o knowing mileage, extent of engine rebuild, extent of tranny rebuild, overall maintenance history, etc it's difficult to give more than a range such as the previously quoted $5k-$10k.

I agree. Thus my previous comments. The car doesn't seem original in other ways. I wouldn't worry about the motor numbers. Drive it. Enjoy it. Lots of mods from the track, and originality isn't going to be a huge factor in an ex track 914. (The best way to use these cars) Too bad you don't get to the bar earlier.


Have you pulled the rocker panels yet?
A 914 person in the know requires this pre sale

This is the big problem with these cars. You state 6 times, on the first page alone, that the car doesn't have rust. "rust-free", "it having NO RUST. It truly does not", "it having no rust, as in none present and none previously repaired."

Then you post pictures like this



"My engine compartment has some surface rust on the bottom of the firewall on one side"

Now you understand why people can be so cynical when some states their car has no rust. True, surface rust isn't a huge problem but it still has to be cleaned up, and if there is rust that you can see, how much is there you can't see.

You are correct. I did not see that surface rust on first inspection. It was covered with dirt and became apparent after a cleaned a little under the hood. I am going to take more detailed photos of the typical rust areas.

It's strange to me that there would be any corrosion in that spot and none under the battery(?) Does sound insulation normally go there? Here is the "hell hole":

Also, the word you were looking for is "skeptical", not cynical. The car does not have rust in other places. I will provide photos of any area of the car to potential buyers if I decide to sell it.

A question for you, biosurfer, (whomever you are); why jump on here telling lies yourself and co-mingling posts from different internet boards? I have nothing to hide with this car, but I posted that picture on Pelican and you respond to it here. Along with some BS about "saying 6 times on the first page, etc..." Why? Just to be a menstrual cycle?

I stated that it was "almost rust-free" on the first page. I had not seen that surface rust at that time. My bad. I will still maintain that it's the driest unrestored 914 I've ever seen. I've never seen a battery hell hole without even surface rust on it. The door jams are also super clean, floors inside and in trunk look like showroom new, etc.

I personally have never seen photos of an original, (not restored), 914 in this condition under the battery and in the rear trunk. The car still needs, and deserves IMO, a good quality restoration. It's a great starting point.

I'd still like someone to tell me what it's worth in its present condition so I can make an informed decision whether to tackle the resto myself or let someone else have it and do it. Ebay will tell me in a matter of days, no problem. I'd much rather keep it among a small circle of enthusiasts. That's all.