Ok, besides the physical difference, what is the application of each?

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The one on the left has 15 friends on my 75 with ATS (4 lug cookie cutters?) The problem I noticed was that the super beetle steel spare I have will come right over the flats.

I just bought 20 of the one on the right from eBay. I have installed one, And it threaded right on, and tightened up nicely. I plan to clean them up and paint the flats to closely match the ATS wheels. Or just clean them up.

If all goes well, I will have 16 for sale so I would like to be a GOOD seller and offer them to someone that will not have the same issue I did.

Clark

One is conical one is a ball stud.

OK I exaggerated a bit. The conical one will stay in a steel wheel. But it does seat deeply. IIRC I could not get them tight enough to hold the wheel on.
The bolt is not threaded, it is just pushed into the steel wheel as far as I can get it. Feels like the points of the flats are the only thing holding.
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Now this shot is the ATS wheel with 3 conical and 1 ball seat bolt on the right. Just looks like the ball seat one is going to hold better to me. You can see where maybe the PO had this type of bolt on the wheel before. The edge of the hole has the paint worn on it, but the bolt does not touch where the paint is worn.

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I thought ball was the correct one for our wheels. You can not mix and match. If it is a ball seat, you need a ball. Same for cone.

The cone shaped one looks like a Saab bolt. It is not making full contact on the steel wheel. Not safe to use. Do you need correct ball seat bolts?

So no one has seen or uses the one on the left?

I took a closer look at the ball seat one, it does have a VW stamp on it. Another unique feature is that the TOP of the ball seat one has a big dimple in it. look closely at the ATS wheel picture.

Those ATS wheels probably use a cone seat bolt. Mine did. No comment on whether that is actually the correct bolt

This thread has a picture of the lug nuts I used with mine
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=210147

Your picture of a cone nut (bottom nut) is much different than what some called my original (1st pic, bolt on the left). Your cone is not too different from the ball seat. the cone shape starts out wider than the flats on yours and on mine it never gets any bigger than the flats.

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The ball seat is appropriate for all of the stock 914 wheels.

Carefully check the ATS wheel bolt holes. The cone seat might be the right one for them, or they might take the stock ball seat bolts.

Don't use the cone seats on wheels that take ball seat bolts, and don't use the ball seat bolts on wheels that take cone seat bolts. Neither one is safe.

--DD

Being that my wheels are not stock and they are ATS, I am assuming that the wheels take conical lugs. However, I don't feel that I have the correct lug. It seems to sink too deep into the bolt hole in the wheel.

Is there anyone out there, with these wheels, that can remove a lug bolt and take a close up of it and post it here. I would like to compare someone else's bolt to my bolt in post #1.

Thanks,

Clark

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DO NOT ASSUME!

Seriously, this is stuff that can kill you. So do not assume the DAPO did it correctly, especially when it takes all of three minutes to remove a lug bolt and actually look at the wheel.

Please check. At the very least, it could keep another 914 from being wrecked.

--DD

All I can do is assume. I have put 3500 miles on this car with the concial bolts that came on it. So they seem to be holding the wheels on at speeds up to 70mph.

That is why I would like to see a picture or some measurements of what other ATS owner's bolts look like. I don't think my current conical bolts are correct. It is obvious that the picture of the conical NUT above and my ATS conical BOLT do not have the same geometry. I ASSUME, I need to find a conical bolt like the conical nut above. They come in all kinds of sizes, I know that for sure, so which ones should I buy. Can you help with that?

It is not easy to see for sure (hence "I assume" was used) and it is tuff to measure the cone dimension on the wheel, but it is coned. I get 75 degrees on the bolt (also tuff to measure) and the TOP of the cone is no wider than the 19mm hex, UNLIKE THE NUT pictured above. Is that an OK assumption?

No one but you can determine if those bolts are correct or not for your wheels. Get some marking blue like this or other brand.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#bluing-paste/=s0vv2l

I have heard even lipstick works. Remove a bolt and cover the cone surface. Install and remove the bolt. Where is the contact pattern? If it is only a small area at the top or bottom of the cone the angle is wrong.

I can do that. thanks for the tip. I knew measuring was going to be a bitch and I had to go WAY back to remember how to calc an angle. SOH CAH TOA is the only part I remembered, so I was half way there.

Clark