Gotta get myself reved up to finish my car... Let's see who we're competing with!


Post your class both by letter-system and the new points system:


Nathan Breitling 75 914 2.0

Fm (gulp) and AX6 (705 points -- just barely missed AX7, now i have to compete with Demick (gulp again))

specs:

dot r's, wider wheels, race-seat, non-stock bumpers, carbs, 9.5:1 compression, hot cam, stock bore/stroke, headers, 21 front sway, stock rear sway, rear springs 140#s (may tweek susp more).

let's see it, peeps!

n

Trekkor Wills 1974 914-6 2.0 FM A/X7(660 pts)

Webers
headers
lightened flywheel and pressure plate with H/D springs
31mm Front bar SRP
stock rear bar
150# rear springs ( may use 200#'s )
Koni shocks-yellows
turbo tie rods
competition wheel alignment
DOT-r race tires, Yoko's or Hoosiers ( depending on my mood). 205/50/15
chassis stiffening
race Harnesses
race steering wheel

I'm ready...

KT

damn, how did you slip in under me in points??!!!

looks good, trekkor. Fm's going to be a lot of fun, it looks like. Andy, yourself, and me as the 3 "intermediate" drivers, up against Demick, Randal, and John Seidell.

Fm is shaping up to be a competetive class this year

Here's my info:
Demick Boyden
Fm
AX6 (710 points)

Car has 2056cc motor, d-jet, 15x6 wheels, DOT-R tires, 180lb rear springs, 19mm front bar. That's about it.

If the new points system ever goes into effect, I might try and lose a few points. Stupid stuff like non-stock front air dam costs points, but does nothing for autox performance.

Demick

P.S. I think we need to audit Trekkor's points. How can he have only 660 points when he's got all the stuff I do plus a six!

awesome, demick. i think you and i are a bit out-classed in AX6 (there are 2-996 turbos on dot-r's in AX6!) -- i too would think about trying to lose the 5 points that put me in AX6 if those rules become official. if i run the fuchs instead of my 3-piece wheels, that would do it...

is the Bp contingent still on the board?


p.s. trekkor -- don't you need to add like a hundred points for the 2 extra cylinders, dood??!!!

I'm legit, Boys.
K.T. Wills a/x stats

No points for the six ( was an option for this series ) 914-6 power!

They dinged me for 75 pts for the cc increase however.

Guess who popped by... Randal! Out of nowhere.
Just as I finished dialing in the carbs.
We hit the Vineyard Lap. He was happy.

KT

now...lets say i drove up there for an auto x, what class would i be in...

2.0 euro, webers, tarett sway bar, 911 front end, 205/50 falkens stock exhaust, bumpers, and allpanels are steel.....

You can class it yourself

http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...mm_evalform.php

QUOTE (Paul Heery @ Jan 16 2005, 06:52 PM)

You can class it yourself http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...mm_evalform.php

AX 10 and 475

Geesh, this is as bad as POC. My car got hit in a parking lot, body shop didn't want to find steel hood, so used FG. Bingo. Went from 'stock' right through 'improved' and into 'production' YeeHa! Glad I'm not in it for the money

Aaron, you'd be in 'improved' with POC.

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 16 2005, 07:01 PM)

Geesh, this is as bad as POC.  My car got hit in a parking lot, body shop didn't want to find steel hood, so used FG.  Bingo.  Went from 'stock' right through 'improved' and into 'production'  YeeHa!  Glad I'm not in it for the money  :) Aaron, you'd be in 'improved' with POC.

in the PCA AX down here im barely in C - street prepared..... almost in the dreaded "prepared"

howie! you still got them schlicks?

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 16 2005, 05:49 PM)

now...lets say i drove up there for an auto x, what class would i be in... 2.0 euro, webers, tarett sway bar, 911 front end, 205/50 falkens stock exhaust, bumpers, and allpanels are steel.....  :idea:

doood, you have to come up and AX with us. we have a good crowd and lots of fun.

presumably you have a non-stock cam with those carbs, so you'd be Fm. with a stock cam, you might get away with Br.

Nathan, between your wide rims, racing seat, non-stock bumpers, induction system, cam, increased compression ratio, there's 165 pts I don't have.

KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 16 2005, 05:45 PM)

No points for the six ( was an option for this series ) 914-6 power!

That's if you assume that a 914-4 and 914-6 are in the same model series.

Kind of like saying the 911 and 912 are in the same model series.

I'm not sure which is correct.

Demick

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 16 2005, 06:11 PM)

Nathan, between your wide rims, racing seat, non-stock bumpers, induction system, cam, increased compression ratio, there's 165 pts I don't have. KT

yup, and probably -165 lbs, too -- which i'll need if i've got a shot!

my "induction" system is just the carbs.


i think you have a different interpretation of the "extra cylinders" than do others, e.g. the Pickerings. i think the point in the 914 2.0 vs 914-6 as different models is to assign the /6 100 extra points -- the same as registering as a 2.0 but then adding 2 extra cylinders (as the pickerings have done).

shit, i've got no axe to grind, though -- none of that is official anyway. Fm is where the battle is!

Trekkor

Just looked at the rules. Here's what is says to do in your case:


Modification Question
The engine does not have the same number of cylinders as stock, but an engine type with this number of cylinders was available in the same bodyshell group.
ACTION : Go back to the base model choice and select the car, from the same body shell group and the same number of cylinders as the engine type now installed.
ACTION : Go back to the engine capacity table and select the correct option for capacity increase. Answer all engine modification options as deviations from the stock configuration of the engine type for the base model now selected.



So this means that you must start your base classification as a 1970-71 914-6, and answer all engine questions as if it was a standard two liter 914-6. This means you will have no engine displacement extra points (your's is a 2.0 right?). But you may have cam points if those are not 'T' cams. etc etc.

Demick

QUOTE (Howard @ Jan 16 2005, 06:01 PM)

Geesh, this is as bad as POC.

it sure f-ing is. as i told trek just now (pm'ed), you could have a craptacular 1.7 with FI, skinny tires, and no sway bars. but if you have a non-stock cam in it, you're in Fm! my cam is what's keeping me out of Br (production 2litre with carbs*) and into Fm. all the Bi and Bp guys are stuck with a stock cam. in theory at least.

which is why i like the new (unofficial) points system.




*who in hell runs carbs on a stock cam anyway?

Thanks , Demick!

Here's another take, assuming my cams are not stock.

K.T. Wills ( 2 )



KT

looks like Ahhndy is Fm; AX-5, running with the big boys on some real schlicks. resident german

you don't know your cam, Trek? thought you did... could put you back into AX7 with some luck...

can't wait to see that /6 rip!





(can't wait to beat it, either.... )

Ah heck...

Im screwed..

http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...&s=0&np=4&r=184

GT....

What does this mean?
http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...&s=0&np=4&r=196

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 16 2005, 08:03 PM)

What does this mean? http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...&s=0&np=4&r=196

It means you better be F'ing fast!

When I come to play, I'll work at that

This is good...

This season can't come sooner.

KT

Humm....I think I did that wrong. Oh well, whatda' they gonna' do, send me to Viet N......eh... jack me up a class?

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 16 2005, 06:54 PM)

looks like Ahhndy is Fm; AX-5, running with the big boys on some real schlicks. resident german

ayupp ...

FM & AX5 (885.00)

My Classification ...

Andy

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 16 2005, 08:03 PM)

What does this mean?

that means that a factory Carrera GT has *less* points than you do ...

Andy

Here are our classifications for GGR/LPR/Zone 7 PCA for 2005:

Doris and Bill Pickering
car# 628L / 628
1974 914-6

2005 car class: ZL / Z Auto-X, Time Trials
2006?: AX1 in Auto-X, GT3R in Time Trials

More tweaking will be needed in the new points based system. It seems a shame that in auto-x you have to be added points to like Demick for a non-stock front air dam that doesn't help performance.

But the new rules committee is trying to balance things. If you go by the letter of POC/PCA club racing, our car would be a GT2 class car for tracks. However, we are running a stock 993 motor, so we're 100+HP down from true GT2's. The competion director is trying to even it out.

I like the new points system, but truthfully it doesn't matter where we end up. We just like being with everyone and having fun....and not breaking the car...

Bill P.

Bill:

Lemmeno when that car of yours is ready.
Mine won't be "done" till April so I won't make the all914 AX (if it happens), but I'll come down in May or June for an AX. ....God willin' & the creek don't rise.

I see we are in the same class. Oh well, I've had my AXass kicked before

If I did it correctly....AX7 with 675 points

AX 5 total 865 points What ever that means
I run SM-2 in SCCA.

I don't think I did my classification right. Says I'm AX4 915 points

http://sandbox.visualproduce.com/rulcomm_c...&s=0&np=5&r=207

I used what my car started as: 1973 914 1.7

I wasn't sure how to account for the /6 conversion but it looks like it should be "Engine capacity increase from 2001cc to 2250cc". Not sure what the 1.7/1.8 base cc is but the 1970 2.2 S is suposedly 2195 cc.

I was running in FML and FXL 'cuz I wasn't sure which was right.

Gwen

Since you have a six conversion, you have to go back and start your classification as a 914-6 (see my earlier post to Trekkor). Then you answer engine modification questions based on a 2.0 911T motor. So you will get extra points for the extra 200cc's you have as well as your 'S' cams. Expect some pretty high classification numbers for your car.

Demick

okay, i don't understand this, maybe some of you PCA regulars can help me out.

from what i could tell via my possible "stringent" interpretation of the rules, ANY non-stock camshaft in a 914 puts you into Fm -- regardless of displacement, fuel delivery (fi vs carbs), etc.

however, there are a few guys who have been running in, e.g., Bp in 2004 who, according to their profiles on the points system page, are running a non-stock camshaft.

i ask because, although i don't mind getting my ass kicked around a little in Fm this season, my car is clearly in the "spirit" of the Prodified class (Br). stock stroke, stock bore, carbs, hi-compression, just a touch of fiberglass, and, yes: a cam.

here's the prodified text:

4.5 PRODIFIED CATEGORY (a) Due to the special capability of the 914 to provide racecar performance within very tight budget constraints, two Prodified classes are provided. (b All modifications permitted to 914s in the Stock, Improved, and Production Categories are permitted. (c Suspension modifications accomplished by machining or welding are permitted. (d) Drilling or grooving of brake rotors is permitted. (e) Racing tires are permitted. Tires that do not meet the size requirements of the Production Category, but which otherwise would be allowable in the Production Category, are permitted. (f) Rim widths are limited to 7" maximum. Rim diameter is limited to 15" minimum. Offset wheels are permitted. (g) Non-standard gearing is permitted. (h) Float bowl baffling is permitted. (i) Compression ratio may be increased. (j) A track width increase up to 2" is permitted, along with wheel spacers and replacement wheel studs. (k) Locked differentials are permitted. (l) Any front air dam may be installed, provided it does not extend forward of the stock front bumper (excluding bumperettes), and does not extend rearward of the front wheel centerline. Removal of the front valance panel/bumper and the rear valance is permitted. (m) Any rear aerodynamic device is permitted provided: (i) It is within a 5-inch perimeter at the contour of a factory stock car as viewed from above. (ii) There is no forward-facing gap between the device and the body of the car for the central 30 inches. (iii) It does not extend closer than 6" to the ground. (n) Any brand pistons and cylinders may be used. Overbore up to 1.2 mm over stock is permitted. (o) Fiberglass fenders, hood, rear deck lid, engine cover, and rear bumpers may be substituted for the stock components. Fiberglass doors are not permitted. (p) Camber settings are free.

YET, there is no specific mention in the rules of any cam swap being permited until you get into Fm:

4.6 Street Modified Category (excerpt)
(j) Engine Parts: Different cams may be used. Any brand pistons and cylinders are permitted. These changes are not permitted in the Production Category due to high costs.

what's the understanding here? do people just ignore the "cam issue"? has this ever formally come up? it seems like most people are in Fm because of displacement, as a 2056 bumps you out of the B-series classes...

all input welcome. nathan

QUOTE (Demick @ Jan 17 2005, 02:10 PM)

Gwen Since you have a six conversion, you have to go back and start your classification as a 914-6 (see my earlier post to Trekkor).  Then you answer engine modification questions based on a 2.0 911T motor.  So you will get extra points for the extra 200cc's you have as well as your 'S' cams.   Expect some pretty high classification numbers for your car. Demick

That makes a difference... Thanks Demick!

Now it says I'm classed in AX5 with 840 points.

Is that good or bad for me?

Well, I didn't get to check very many items so I only ended up with 350 points which places me in AX13. Britain's 1.7L Classifications

It looks like I will be against 911 SC (1978-1983) and 914/2.0 stock cars. Looks like fun...I need to get my 912 done.

-Britain

damn, britain, as fast as you push that little 1.7, you ought to be kicking some ass there!



Andy vs. Gwen: The showdown of '05.

monkei: you'll want sways. at least a front.

sounds like an Fm car.

Ooops, my son(monkei) was logged into my comPuter so I am re-posting with my login.I have an engine swap started by Brad before he disappeared and it should be done in late feb (HPH has taken over the project). Documentation on this work in progress is non-existent. I am not sure about what I will have in the end. I have a 73 that was a 1.7. I sent a 2.0 core to HPH and I think I will end up with a 2056 with FI. Not sure of cam. Has ceramic lifters. I will upgrade to sticky tires but no sway bars. Has Koni Yellows and new springs. Full tranny rebuild with Billet intermediate plate and Gurad ZF LSDS. Eurpoean racing headers ceramic coated. I would appreciate any help you all could give me in figuring out my class/points. Maybe Rich B. can chime in here. Whatever the answer is I can tell you I am pretty excited about running this year! My son now has a 914, his roommate just bought the white 74 from HPH and my wife will probably run most events with us in her Boxster.

Ah...here is my answer to kick your butts...

I classed my 912 based off the plans that I have for the car. It looks like I will have 665 points, putting me in AX7 Britain's 912 Turbo

-Britain

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jan 17 2005, 03:54 PM)

what's the understanding here? do people just ignore the "cam issue"? has this ever formally come up? it seems like most people are in Fm because of displacement, as a 2056 bumps you out of the B-series classes...

Nathan.

The rules are often hard to read and understand. My guess is that anyone running in a 'B' class but has a non-stock cam probably didn't read the rules carefully enough. It is up to the participants to 'police' one another. If you suspect someone running in a class that they shouldn't be, just bring it up to them and ask them what's the deal? More than likely they just don't know and will appreciate the guidance. Best time to bring this up is before the season even starts.

Demick

2.0liter
44idf's
Cantilevers
'Slightly lightened and widened'
Needs race gas
No glass
Roll cage
1 light bulb (oil pressure)

Class X / AX3... if I went with 7"wheels all around instead of 7 amd 8 which is done for looks more then performance I could lose a 100 points...

But before anything is said... I need to get my control arm area on my chassis repaired.

Before that I need to get the engine/tranny out and I have to many other projects underway to get to that yet...

Steve