There is a need, and seemingly a larger group willing to shell out the money for nice S.S heat exchangers, but at what price ? I may be willing to head up contacting some of the possible suppliers but not until I have a better idea of how many are SERIOUSLY interested and at what price point. Vote in the poll, and post if you are genuinely serious. Please don't vote or post just to say it would be neat, or that you would be in for 500.00 . I would like some sort of numbers on hand before contacting any suppliers.

Potential suppliers would be :

Hayward and Scott

http://www.haywardandscott.com/914-6-perfo...exchangers.html

Dansk : ( if they have the tooling and interest )

http://www.jpgroup.dk/uk/danskjopex-exhausts

Original SSI builder ( if he still has the tooling/plans and interest )

I have no contact info so if anyone does please forward it

Keep in mind that Dansk and Hayward would also have to be shipped from across the pond

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=241939

You and I both know that even at $500 the BDMF's still wouldn't have the money

There's some truth to this comment

I went through this about 15 years ago, and even sent a set of 914-6 HE's to Dansk.

Bottom line is that the tooling to do factory reproductions in SS is simply too expensive, which is why after all these years and many rumors SSI still hasn't (and won't) made 914-6 HE's.

I do not like, nor would I ever purchase or recommend the Hayward & Scott boxes, as they have exhaust tubing welds inside the heat collectors. This is an extreme health hazard, that Porsche discovered in the 60's. When I posed this question their answer was "it's never been a problem", which is totally unacceptable. FWIW this is why the heat collectors on the B&B's are so small.

Speaking of B&B, that's a fairly priced, but poorly built option. Half the time they won't or don't fit right and require a round trip back to B&B (how do you think I know this??), and the heat collectors are in adequate.

My personal conclusion was that the best option could be modifying a later style set of 911 HE's, but I don't have the capabilities or skill set to do that.

I'd be more than happy to discuss any of my research with you.

Terrific Scotty. I have been trying to contact Hayward and Scott for a week now with no success. I have been using their "contact us" button on the website. I am concerned about the heater tubes in the exchangers like 9146986 mentions but want to talk to them and see what they have to say. Of course I would prefer not to pay $3K for a set of exchangers, but....

I would expect that a set of factory quality 914-6 SS HE's would cost over $4k, due to the tooling cost.

Years ago Dansk told me they scrapped the old 914-6 HE tooling on instruction from Porsche.

I would order a set if they closely matched the factory ones and store my originals for safe keeping. With the surge in popularity and prices for 914's I think its more possible now for both -4 and -6 to get done but we need serious buyers!!!

We all need something soon if we want heat in ours cars for years to come!!!

I'm in if they match closely and have the quality of the ssi i've had on my 911 for years.

The problem is if you have an original 6 it might make sense to pay $4k+ for an exhaust with heat. But a conversion car thats only worth $15 -$20k, who would spend almost 25% of the value of the car on exhaust, won't add that much to the value, so unless you just had deep pockets and wanted heat I don't see a lot of sales to that market.

That being said what's the real market, some of the guys who own real sixes, seems kinda limited.....which is why no one has made them and probably never will, no profit.

x10

I'm making a set for myself
this really isn't rocket science
without the stock-perfect stamped appearance there is really not that much material expense

I want one to make my driving season longer and more comfortable. I have no concern about adding value. But if I pay $2500 for heat, it's got to work. The BB exchangers have been proven not to work.

Anyone price stainless tubing lately? I'd venture to guess there would be $ 500.00 per header without the, flanges, heater boxes or labor.

You'd also have to get the bends pre-made. You won't bend stainless tubing without some very expensive equipment.

My interest depends on the manufacturer. If you can get Dansk or the SSI guy to do them, then I'm in at top dollar.

I'm curious about the H&S but they've been out for some time and only 1 guy here has ever seen a set and he hasn't installed it? I'd like more info before I shell out the $$$ they're asking.

Wouldn't pay $50 for the BB's.

Ya. I buy mandrel bent stuff. It would be labor intensive build a jig off a factory set of HE's cut and tig every joint, then make a stamping for the clam shells, fit and weld them in place.

3K is not unreal at today's prices if you could get a volume order.

BTW: Just checked tubing 2-30" straights= $ 75.00

I'm just getting started in the 914 arena, and have a 3.2 in my garage that will go into my car sometime this year. So, I would be interested in proper heat exchangers. I have read quite a few of the postings, and would like to share my "cold eyes" opinion.

First off, welding technology has evolved and improved tremendously since the 60's, when Porsche was concerned about failing welds within the heat exchange boxes. Modern TIG and MIG equipment creates far superior welds then were the norm 50 years ago. So, YES, a weld in an area that could be a source of CO into the cockpit (if a weld fails) would be an issue to be concerned about. But, the probability of that occurring is extremely small. And, if a weld did fail, I doubt that anyone would succumb from the CO simply because the odor of the exhaust gases and vaporizing oil would bring tears to your eyes before you reached any state of asphyxia. Ask me how I know!

Secondly, I would venture to guess that those owners who own sixes, either original sixes or converted sixes, put very many miles on their cars. And, of the miles put on the cars, I would doubt that no more than a few would be in inclement weather. So, the life span of a set of exchangers done in carbon rather than stainless steel would probably be longer than many of our life spans. So, why opt for stainless steel which appears to be cost prohibitive? If you are concerned about the look of corrosion, you can have the entire system ceramic coated for far less than the cost of stainless.

My car is 40 years old and probably has over 200,000 miles on the chassis. But, now that it has been restored and is in my ownership, I doubt that the car will have 2000 miles a year put on it. And, am I that much different than the typical owner of a car that has been restored? So, starting out with a new set of exchangers that will probably have about 2000 miles of annual usage and little if any of that in inclement weather, I would gladly opt for a set of carbon steel exchangers that were affordable. Because, as was pointed out before, why would I want to spend $4000 on a set of exchangers to put into a car worth about $20,000?

Which brings me to what I would like to see. There are a couple of companies out there that make quality headers for the 914-6 for less than $1000 a set. So, what would be the cost to make a jig to reproduce the sheet metal clamshell cans that could be fitted to a set of headers and welded out? The clam shells could be marketed by themselves for installation by the owner or his favorite welder.

Personally, I would be willing to pay $500 for the sheet metal clam shells to install on my own exhaust headers.

Is this idea feasible? I put it out there for discussion only as an option to what appears to be an overly expensive design that most would not opt to purchase.

I wish I had seen this thread before I purchased my B&B's.

When I was looking into heat exchangers, Brian @ RarlyL8 said he could make 914-6 heat exchangers. These are the same folks who make M&K mufflers. Her's their website:

http://www.rarelyl8.com/911-header.html

I wonder if our friends at Restoration Design would take on the clam shells? They do such a nice job on repro 914 sheet metal!!! I sent Pete a PM and the link to this thread

Bone Dysplasia with Medullary Fibrosarcoma

Bay-Delta Modeling Forum

Biology Department Microscopy Facility

Backyard Death Match Federation

Big Dick Mother Fucher

could they ? Absolutely. The problem is no one in their right minds would put out the expense to make such a part without at least twice the demand required to cover costs of tooling. 10 sets probably 'taint gonna be enough. The startup costs required to machine the dies would probably make most of us faint. IIRC Pete stated the dies fr the front trunk pan had over 80 hours in machining. To be vaguely blunt , there's a very good reason why RD makes more products for 356 and 911's then they do for 914's


Here's some reading for ya

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=145738

I agree it's worth asking. Even though it would be a small volume part, they could charge a higher than average cost per piece. I also like the idea about making everything out of carbon steel and ceramic coating. It would be nice to know just how many pieces need to be sold for RD to make the part.

Even if they sold enough units to replace every factory six car still alive they probably would not make enough money to pay off the tooling investment.

Scotty,

All of the SSI tooling and machines were bought by Dansk. They are still making these exhausts, but I dont ever recall there being any tooling for /6 heat exchangers. I had seen all the tooling and everything that was being sold with SSI when it was for sale. If there was tooling at some point for the /6 exchangers then we either didnt see it or it was gone.

As for making these ourselves, as others have said the tooling would be a great cost. Plus there not only is stamping of the outer clams, but the stainless tubes need to be bent on a CNC tube bender, which we dont have.

Unfortunately, I do not know much about metal working; so, it would be nice for someone on this forum who knows metal working to chime in.

Having said that, what would it take to fabricate, say from wood, some buck patterns for the clam shell pieces? We would have to decide "whose" header design to work from, but buy a set of headers and mock up the clam shells on that header. Using the mock ups, could not someone produce a wooden buck that could be used to hand form the clamshells? We are talking relatively thin sheet metal here about the same gauge as air conditioning duct work. I have cut that material before with tin snips; but, once cut out, the sheet metal would have to be form fitted to the pattern suggested above. I think that old time metal workers used to form car parts exactly this way. So, we are talking about (4) different patterns to produce the clam shell casings.

This would be the only way to produce a low volume item such as we are talking about. Hopefully, someone with metal working knowledge can chime in about this discussion.

Yup. Dansk bought out SSI. They have been rumored to be working on -6 HEs. The owner has a -6 (my understanding).

If they are rumored to be making some, maybe lets sit tight and see what happens. I will look into the rumor.

Pete

I bought a set of H&S heat exchangers in February for my 3.2 conversion car. It took 3 months for them to arrive and when they did they came without the O2 sensor bung welded onto the left-side exchanger, even though it was specifically listed on the build sheet.

I just got my car back after 3 months in the body shop, so I haven't had the opportunity to install the exchangers on the car. This will be done in the next month or so, and I eagerly wait to compare them with the B&B exchangers that I'm running now, and which don't supply much hot airflow at all.

Bluhun- Did you contact H&S re the 02 sensor bung and if so what was their response?

I see you are in San Rafael, that is drivable for me. I would like to come see the heat exchangers if possible. I live in the San Ramon Valley of the East Bay Area.

I did contact Ian at H&S and his response was something like: "Sorry, hope that's not a problem." It cost about $300 for shipping!

The exchangers are at Hi-Tec Auto, 779 Andersen Drive, in San Rafael. I'm sure that we could set up a time to meet there to check them out.

Reliable source tells me that OEM type 914-6 HEs are being manufactured in the EU right now and should be available sometime later this year. I don't know the exact type metal or price point. But if crappy used HEs are fetching $$$$.00 then new ones will be a bargain at those prices. Get your checkbook or paypal ready.

Who build them

Any idea if they will be stock o.d. only, or offered in various sizes ?

What, are we the freakin' CIA now? Spill the details or I know a water boarder or two.....

any further rumor or word on these?

I'll see if I can get an update....
they are to be stock OEM size and grade made by OEM supplier
price is to be determined yet

SSI
Dansk
Porsche Classic

I would buy from any of these three, especially if price is $1500-2500. If rendered in stainless steel, all the better—but so long as the steel is good, I would choose an OE replacement over the existing setups. I can always have it coated, and it will surely last longer than used factory exchangers.

As to the rumor mill: I heard SSI sold everything except its 914-6 heat exchanger tooling to Dansk—and that the 914-6 tooling is 98-100% ready to go but that the owner wasn't happy that one pipe run's length wasn't quite the same as the others, and thus never put it into production (I could care less). Of course, this should be treated like the rest of the info floating around there until it can be confirmed: as a rumor.

As to whether this is a viable product: With NOS exchangers going for truly silly money, and no great options, I have to believe this would be viable for someone. Maybe not hugely profitable, and probably not right away, but there are a lot of people out there like me who are running headers with no heat because there are no solutions of acceptable quality. And yes, I would spend $1500-2500 to put heat in my conversion car. I'm not planning on selling, but I am planning on driving—and heat makes that a lot nicer.

Even though the stock 914-6 heat exchangers allowed a 3.0-liter to make 250 hp on Jerry Woods' dyno years ago (iirc), someone smart might try to set up the boxes so that different pipe sizes could be used to serve the big-bore engines. Maybe use spacers on the pipes at the right locations to make the boxes work with smaller pipes. Someone even smarter might work with a guy like Marty at MSDS to see if there isn't an elegant way to put factory-style boxes on his headers for an upcharge. As long as it looks like something the factory would have done, I'd be very happy to support that venture.

pete

Marty makes great headers but he personally told me he's not going to make 914-6 heat exchangers. Hope these come to fruition.

I had a pm exchange with Marty about making HE boxes for his headers. He indicated the factory units are still available but pricey. He also stated his headers were different enough that factory style HE would not fit.

I have a very rough set here I can use for patterns but I have too many irons in my fire to even think about it now.

You guys remember this posts here?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2113407

After reading it I ask Dansk in Europe directly and got the answer that they are indeed working on it and that they plan to offer it briefly. They also gave me a spare parts number
That is why it sounds good to me, but there's still no price and no date. One of the important oldtimer fairs in Germany will start mid of April this year. That could be a target for the initial presentation?

I know for sure MSDS are quite different over OEM, I just put them on my car for a look-see. The pipes sit farther back, the collector is different, a pipe on each side almost touches a trailing arm when the car is lifted (one is only 1/8" away), etc. (see note at bottom)

Then peeps will want 1-1/2, 1-5/8 and 1-3/4 versions and are all his size versions done exactly the same every time? Then plumbing the boxes, etc. A lot of variables.
It could be done, I'll likely attempt to do it myself, but to do it right it wouldn't be cheap or easy due to custom labour.

(Note: be clear this is lifted on a car lift, arm fully extended, close but not a quality issue and it works fine in it's intended fitment. Sitting on the ground it has ample clearance. MSDS headers are a quality piece.)

There ya go Scooter... A rock'n 30 sets sold!

Today I had a call with the dealer of my confidence.
He told me that the JP headers with H/E are available in the
first week of February.
The pricing is not fixed but I get the price info a.s.a.p.

While my 914-6 HE's are in really great shape a New set would be even better !

The New OEM style 914-6 HEs I mentioned earlier are here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2137593

So ....$3K is the price

With the Canunk buck right now that's $3600 plus shipping and tax, so I'm up around $4200

I'll have to pass

As much as I wish these were about $2,200 I am pretty sure that I will be buying a set of these. So the tubes are stainless and the clam shells galvanized steel -that is a nice improvement for sure.

I just want to add that a C O meter warning buzzer is less than $10. House, barbq, smoking. The HEs are likely least of our worries but I have a co warning unit in the cockpit. Bet is it won't be going off soon - unlike the one in the garage that chirps the moment I start a motor.

They are constructed of mild steel....these are made just like the stock OEM.