Ok, so I've decided to just replace the entire floor, and KNOW that it's done right. I have a couple of questions. I couldn't find a thread that specificly addressed this. Tried a few searches, and got an IIS error. (I'd be happy to park the site on one of my Unix servers for free.) Anywho...

#1 - Anyone done this and had success? I've read the article on the Bird site, but I need pictures.

#2 - Should I get the Front-Back or Left-Right type? I plan on doing the whole thing, but I don't have a rotisserie, and need to keep the car on the jack-stands. (I may have to take it higher to get under it.)

#3 - How much 'lip' did you leave to spot to? Or, should I put it in from the top, or from the bottom?

You guys in Cali get all the breaks...you have tons of people close by that can come 'help' AND you get to drive these year-round.

Any advise/help is ALWAYS appreciated!

Bump inquireing minds need to know

I ordered the left/right pans because I think that may be a little cleaner on my end.

So I guess I'm trudging along on my own here. (...the road to happy destiny?)

The floor pan pieces I've seen (left & right) were a factory replacement. Which means you can drill all the spot welds out from underneath the car (that's FUN ) to release the old panels. There are about 1,000,000. Lots of fun on your back. But that's the right way to do it. Things get a little trickier up along the front edge where the pedal cluster is and the passenger footwell. The floor pans on the car go up aways, so you have to make your own cuts there. Nothing in the center tunnel is welded to the floor, so you can just drill out all those spot welds and it'll drop away. Does that help?

QUOTE (McMark @ Jan 26 2005, 01:21 PM)

Which means you can drill all the spot welds out from underneath the car (that's FUN ) to release the old panels.

time to get a rotisserie ...

Andy

don't you wish you would have shipped a car from CA as many advised instead of buying the first rusty one you saw?

QUOTE (vortrex @ Jan 26 2005, 04:38 PM)

don't you wish you would have shipped a car from CA as many advised instead of buying the first rusty one you saw?

Not really. This IS what I was looking for.

I wanted a car that I could spend the winter playing with. This is what I'm doing. There were 2-3 cars that were 'better' by everyone elses standards, but this one had what *I* was looking for.

If every time I ask for help I have to defend my car purchasing decision, this is going to get real old...real quick.

Back to my question...

Do these need to be drilled from under the car, or above? Is there anything wrong with doing the entire floor at once while it's on jacks? Should I try to brace it first, or put the doors back on?

Thanks for the help gang.

Underneath the tub.

You don't have to brace it as long as the longs are solid. It would be easier with the tub on a rotisserie. You'll probably want to place the jackstands somewhere besides the donuts to remove the pans.

QUOTE (Gint @ Jan 26 2005, 09:58 PM)

Underneath the tub. You don't have to brace it as long as the longs are solid. It would be easier with the tub on a rotisserie. You'll probably want to place the jackstands somewhere besides the donuts to remove the pans.

That's what I was thinking. I'm going to go over the diagram that someone posted a while ago. I'm going to have to jack it up a bit first.

If I read Kyle Ehler's Article correctly, there are just spot welds around the outside...right? are the center longs just attached with paint? I think this is the way I'm going to go at it.

This is the last step before I can get the rest of the interior fitted, and start working on the bodywork. My wife is on call all weekend, so I've got 50 'wife-free' hours to work on this. =)

Use the search feature of the site. There is a lot of good info from past threads. Check this thread out below. It's not specific to floor pans, but it might help ya out.

Spot weld cutter thread

QUOTE (Gint @ Jan 26 2005, 10:21 PM)

Use the search feature of the site. There is a lot of good info from past threads. Check this thread out below. It's not specific to floor pans, but it might help ya out. Spot weld cutter thread

I always try to search the archives first. I run several forums for other hobbies (as well as owning a couple of ISPs) and am ALWAYS annoyed when someone just blindly posts a question that was answered a few days before. I manage a few that I have the user check a box that says "Have You Searched" before they can post. (Handy feature actually.)

That was a great thread and I read it this morning. Did you ever get a smaller (1/4") spot cutter?

My garage heater has been broken so I haven't had a chance to get under there and look, but I'll have it back tomorrow and will get a chance to get under there and take a look at all of this.

Thanks again for all the help.

QUOTE (CptTripps Posted on Jan 26 2005 @ 08:46 PM)

That was a great thread and I read it this morning. Did you ever get a smaller (1/4") spot cutter?

Nah. By the time I got to that point, I was pretty much done cutting spot welds. I was only removing small pieces anyway. Nothing as ambitious as what you're planning. I left that work to a professional. There are some fuzzy pics of the floor pan work done on my tub in my rusto thread. Link is in my sig.

i was going to use a rotisserie but didnt want to fork out the dough, laying under the car sucks when cutting/welding...you could always do like i did....

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jan 26 2005, 11:06 PM)

i was going to use a rotisserie but didnt want to fork out the dough, laying under the car sucks when cutting/welding...you could always do like i did....

I was thinking of that, but I'd have to pull the engine then. I don;t have anyone close that can help me, and that is a little more weight than I'm willing to get under with a socket wrench. If I'd done it before, than it'd be a different story, but there are certain things that I'm not willing to 'try' on my own.

I have a friend that used to do a lot of this with me but he had a heart transplant a few months ago so he's A) Not to good with the lifting still in his 'smell the flowers because every day is a gift' phase.

I'm going to spend a good part of tomorrow cleaning out the garage and getting the bumpers/tires off, then digging into the '1,000,000' spot welds I'm going to need to remove. I'm going to take a bunch of pics so I can do a 'how-to' on this.

There are spot welds along the outside as well as along the center tunnel and the brace that is halfway between the front and the back. Lots of spot welds.

We look forward to the pictures.

I'm planning on taking lots...of lots of pictures to post on the board.

I found my old digital camera...well...a year old. I thought I lost it, then I went to put my new one in the toolbox and...hey...there's my old camera...right where I was going to put this one so I wouldn't loose it!

So now I have a dedicated 'project' camera.

I just finished reading Gint's thread. I was thinking this was going to look noce but MAN....THAT is a restoration.

Maybe I'll attack something similar next year. Or maybe not.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jan 26 2005, 08:13 PM)

I was thinking of that, but I'd have to pull the engine then. I don;t have anyone close that can help me, and that is a little more weight than I'm willing to get under with a socket wrench. If I'd done it before, than it'd be a different story, but there are certain things that I'm not willing to 'try' on my own.

You never have to (and shouldn't) get under the engine with a socket with the aim of removing the engine. The bolts holding the heavy stuff can all be reached without even being under the car (except for the hand holding the wrench). Get an ATV lift, and removing (and replacing!) the entire drivetrain solo is pretty easy and very safe.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jan 27 2005, 12:35 AM)

You never have to (and shouldn't) get under the engine with a socket with the aim of removing the engine. The bolts holding the heavy stuff can all be reached without even being under the car (except for the hand holding the wrench).

I'm thinking I'll wait till I have a friend close by that can assist. Just one of those things. After I've done it once with someone, I'll feel fine to do it on my own.

QUOTE

Get an ATV lift, and removing (and replacing!) the entire drivetrain solo is pretty easy and very safe.

I was looking at one of those yesterday thinking "That'd probably work real well for a 914 engine." I'll pick one up today when I get my new welder.

Man...I'm running out of space in my garage for anythign but tools, and boxed from our OLD garage before we moved in last summer. (I think we have YET to park a car in the garage.)

What we do here is use a roloc scotchbrite disc along the seam to bring out the location of the spot welds, and then we use either a round carbide burr or a cut off wheel and grind the spot welds. If you are saving the piece that's getting cut off, then you need to be more "surgical" about removing it, but if it's getting totally replaced, I think grinding them out is easier. I've done it both ways though, and there's no magic easy way to do it. I'd guess there's probably a minimum of 500 spot welds that you'll have to deal with to replace the pan.

If I didn't have the car on a lift or a rotisserie, and the pan was really solid under the center tunnel, I'd consider doing a seam at the flange between the floor and center tunnel. Not my first choice, but you could still make a very acceptable repair that way, and save some time and trouble.


And, "picking up new welder" = PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE Before you start welding on your car. Since the seats attach to the pan, you want to make sure you've got really good welds with proper penetration. Make sure everything is melting together!

Assuming that I get all of the spots out and plan on doing the entire job by using rosette (plug) welds, should I try to match where the old ones were?

I got a pnumatic (sp?) punch/flange tool today so I'll practice those on my back to get good before I go at it on the car. But when I go to put the pans in, should I just do one every 4" around the paremeter or something?

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jan 27 2005, 08:38 PM)

should I try to match where the old ones were?

yes, re-use the holes you drilled. fill them up nicely, make sure the weld penetrates all the way through ...

Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jan 28 2005, 01:23 AM)

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jan 27 2005, 08:38 PM) should I try to match where the old ones were? yes, re-use the holes you drilled. fill them up nicely, make sure the weld penetrates all the way through ... Andy

I can see that for the ones up top, but what about under the car? I'm drilling the part that I'm replacing...right? I'm grinding down the old welds, then making new ones through the new pan.

I guess I'll get a better idea when I have the floor out later today. (At least I hope it's later today!)

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jan 27 2005, 08:38 PM)

should I just do one every 4" around the paremeter or something?

More like every 2"

QUOTE (9146986 @ Jan 28 2005, 09:05 AM)

More like every 2"

I was afraid someone was going to say that....

Had a little more trouble with the spot-welds than I expected. Perry was right...it jumps around a lot. NOT an easy option for anything. I think I'll be going to a regular drill bit and doing it that way.

Option #2 is to use a jigsaw and cut it out. None of the edges are rusty at all, so if I have to butt-weld the whole thing, I'm fine with that too.

I spent most of today cleaning out the garage so I'm getting up at the crack of dawn to start on the car. MUCH nicer with a clean garage...I was just getting sick of the clutter.

A 30 minute job with the right tools, right??

Ok, I think I have a system here for removing the spots. Pics to follow.

FYI: the following took me 15min to do the length of the passenger Long.

#1 - Remove all the undercoating. I used a 6" wire-braid cup from NAPA on a high-speed 7" grinder. Comes off like butter. You don't need to go any further than the 1" on either side of the spots. We'll go back over that later.

#2 - Drill a small hole in the center of the spots. (I went to a smaller bit after these pics.) Some would say it's not good to go all the way through, but if the long is solid, this shouldn't be an issue. Besides, were going to re-weld something over it and seam-seal the whole thing, so we should be in good shape.

#3 - Use the spot-weld remover. Put the center pin in the hole, and it won't jump around on you. You don't need to dig the whole thing out...just get through most of the metal, the other will pop out.

#4 - Seperate the pan from the chassis. Let's go back up to the cabin and grab a small pry-bar. Put it in the seam and hit it 1-2 times with a hammer.

#5 - Check it out. Your pan should drop easily. You can do the whole thing at once, but it's better to go in sections. Just a little safer IMHO.

Ok...Back to the garage to get it all out of there.

If anyone needs specific pics, just ask.

(Also...is this helping anyone, or just me?)

Looking good Doug. I don't recall anyone doing a thread on a complete floorpan removal/replacement. This one could be one for the archives once you are done!

While I was grinding away, I stayed on one part a little long, and ended up burning a hole through the long. Typical!

There was a bit of rust inside, but nothing that had broken through yet. Just a matter of time, so I cut out the 6X3 patch, and welded it up 'while I was in there'. (Famous last words...)

Here's the patch I made...

I did a bunch of plug welds, but the battery died before I could take the pics. Used my handy-dandy spot remover, and went at it. Worked real well.

So now were back to removing the floor, HOPEFULLY I won't find TOO much more I need to fix. (Again...famous last words.)

lookin good, like a friend of mine told me when i first bought this car, it starts with just a little spot of rust.....

I helped to the floorpans on Korijos car what 2 years ago, should be a thread on it still. You are doing it right as it just takes time to first remove the rusty pan and then weld in the new.
It helps if you can get the car in the air as much as possible as its hard welding on your back!

Geoff

Ok, this is more than I bargained for, but everyone keeps emailing me "you are doing the right thing." I sure hope so. I spent a few hours on it yesterday again, and I feel like I'm getting nowhere. I'll get 8" of it off, and find 3 other things that need repaired. I think I need to stay on task and go back afterwards for all the 'little stuff' I'm finding.

Something I didn't think of was the door gap. I'm not sure if I need to worry about this, but I think I'm going to put the pass-door back on to make sure I'm still ok. Then, make a brace so it won't move on me while I have the floors out.

As for right now, I'm out of steam for this thing. It doesn't help that its friggin freezing outside. Man, I wish we'd bought a house with a heated garage...or even attached!

yeah sometimes my little propane heater just doesnt cut it! What make me feel better in these times, SPEND SOME MONEY! Get some POR 15 and start coating the insides of stuff while your cutting it open. May as well, then maybe you wont have to do this ever again.....ok so i tried. Ive gotten burned out doing long hours of welding floorboards and such up, just set a goal like - ill just get this section done tonite, then clean this one area....then have a beer.

I ordered some por15 yesterday. I should have it this week. Should I just spray it inside the long? I have a feeling I'll be opening it up again before I put the man on. I think I want to re-do the plate I welded in for the seatbelt.

I figure if I do 2ft of the edges a night, I'll have it all off of there by the weekend, then I can start welding. That'll go faster than tearing the old one out. I may have a local welder come do it for me. He owes a few favors to a friend of mine that owes me a LOT of favors. I think if I have someone do the re-welding for me, I'll be a lot better off in the long-run.

I may put the chassis-stifening kit on at the same time. Then just be sone with the interior for a while...move on to the body work. Hell, anything that's not UNDER the car will be a welcome change for me!

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jan 31 2005, 08:37 PM)

I ordered some por15 yesterday.

Just make SURE you wear some gloves when putting on the POR 15 stuff. My hands are all black now, nothing will take it off.

did you get a spray can or just a can. Best thing to do is brush it on, for one its not something you want oversprayed onto something else... if a welder is coming over to do some of it for you, have him give you some pointers. You know the whole give a man a fish and he'll eat for one day.....

yeah the can says that the only thing that will take the por15 off is...time.

I can't exactly figure out what part of the car I'm looking at in this pic but if we're looking up at the passenger side long isn't the circled part a little scary?

Already addressed it. It's not as scary as it looks. Looks worse now without the floor pan. I got in there and took some shots. Seems to be about the only place a 'professional' repair was done on the car. It's just around the pipe for the heat duct. I got in there and metal is all solid. ie: I couldn't pull it out with my hands. It's sealed up from any moisture by the repairs on the other sides.

That's why I ordered the POR 15. I want to cover all of that...just in case.

I'm going to have that welder take a look at it for me too. If I half to tear out the fender for a day or two to patch it, so be it. I'm in pretty deep at this point anyway. =)

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Feb 1 2005, 04:48 AM)

That's why I ordered the POR 15. I want to cover all of that...just in case.

make sure you spray all that surface rust with "Metal-Ready" first before you paint it with POR-15 !!
also, metal-ready needs to washed off with *water* after it dried and before you apply the por-15, otherwise, the por won't stick ...

this is the only combination that really works, just putting por-15 over the surface rust won't do the trick ...

keep up the good work!
Andy

QUOTE (9146986 @ Jan 27 2005, 10:15 AM)

What we do here is use a roloc scotchbrite disc along the seam to bring out the location of the spot welds, and then we use either a round carbide burr or a cut off wheel and grind the spot welds.

Perry, what shape burr did you use?

Rick

File this under 'while I'm in here' or maybe I should just start a new thread for my 'progress' on the car in general.

I was feeling around in the pass-rear wheel well, and found an unnotived perforation...3min later, I could put my hand in it. What to do? Patch time!