Does anyone know of a link to a thread or tech "article" that explains how to install the harness bar(and keep the stock belts) and install the 5 point belts without drilling thru an important bit below the seats...I gotta get ready for the autoX season this time so I won't be so far down the list...HELP! And thanks in advance....

make sure you get all your hardware bolts and washers at Home Depot

Why do you want to keep the stock belts?

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 27 2005, 06:01 PM)

make sure you get all your hardware bolts and washers at Home Depot

YOURE KILLING ME< KILLING ME!

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 27 2005, 06:08 PM)

Why do you want to keep the stock belts?

Because my usual Passenger thinks the others(5pt) are uncomfortable even tho I've pointed out that they "lift and separate", whatcha gonna do...

My clip in belts from Racer's Group were $150 with all the eylets/hardware.

QUOTE (jimtab @ Jan 27 2005, 07:10 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 27 2005, 06:01 PM) make sure you get all your hardware bolts and washers at Home Depot YOURE KILLING ME< KILLING ME!

I knew you'd appreciate the humor there

Trekkor, you need a race seat.

Here are my belts. The harness bar is not necessary, you can bolt the shoulder belts through the fire wall with back up plates.

Back-up plates:

QUOTE

you need a race seat

I know...


My back up washers.

KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jan 27 2005, 06:37 PM)

QUOTE you need a race seat I know...

he doesn't want the points!!

I used a harness bar because I was told the mounting point of the shoulder harness should be level with or above the height of the top of you shoulder. Are the shoulder harness cutouts on most racing seats located above the top of your shoulder usually?
Cheers, Elliot

This ain't rocket science, Track Fee Boy With Stock seats...

1. Buy belts
2. Buy nuts, bolts, BIG flat washers.
3. Drill 5 holes. Avoid drilling through veins and arteries, your's or car's.
4. Bolt in.

Most of these belts attach to mounts with some style of clip so are easily removed for street use. I like them better than street belts. That anti submarine belt is entertaining on long drives if you snug it up just right

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Jan 27 2005, 09:39 PM)

I used a harness bar because I was told the mounting point of the shoulder harness should be level with or above the height of the top of you shoulder. Are the shoulder harness cutouts on most racing seats located above the top of your shoulder usually? Cheers, Elliot

The shoulder belts should be monted below the top of your shoulders.
A 20 degree angle below horizontal is optimum.

So you have to replace the OE retractors to install a HB?
Its the consensus tha harness bars are BAD / Unecessary?

I remember talking to a guy who had broken his collar bone(s) driving some low budget stock car and he was told his restraints were mounted wrong height wise. Cant remember whether too high or too low. I made my own cross bar and retained the stock shoulder restraint because I dont want a ration of criticism from my infrequent passenger (wife). Stock shoulder belt simply runs over the bar and works fine, thus giving me the boy racer-look

If you look at the location of the shoulder mounts on Joe and I's cars, you'll see the proper height.
Throught the firewall below the rear window.

I thought harness bar, too. Seemed easier. When people start saying broken back, neck or shoulder bones, I got scared and did a little research.

All the race cars I've seen use the position slighty below the driver's shoulder height.
The belt goes up and down over the shoulder and to the cam-lock.

Investigate, research, look, ask questions...

KT

I found the key to using a harness bar and keeping stock 3 point belts is to replace the ears on the end of the bar with longer ears (you will have to make these). This allows the stock belts to fit on the B pillar. I lowered the bar to just below the bottom of the rear window. I also am a firm believer in not attaching a harness belt to the harness bar. It is too easy to have the bar rotate if you do so and then have the unfortunate opportunity to stress the installation. I run the shoulder harness straps over the bar and then use huge washers (4"x4" SCCA type) to mount the end of the belts to the firewall. This way the bar is just about at the level of my shoulders.

QUOTE (Oled @ Jan 28 2005, 01:30 PM)

I found the key to using a harness bar and keeping stock 3 point belts is to replace the ears on the end of the bar with longer ears (you will have to make these). This allows the stock belts to fit on the B pillar. I lowered the bar to just below the bottom of the rear window. I also am a firm believer in not attaching a harness belt to the harness bar. It is too easy to have the bar rotate if you do so and then have the unfortunate opportunity to stress the installation. I run the shoulder harness straps over the bar and then use huge washers (4"x4" SCCA type) to mount the end of the belts to the firewall. This way the bar is just about at the level of my shoulders.

could we see a picture of your setup please?

Jim, come to the Tied House this weekend and see my setup. Six-point belt setup, legal in the local PCA (Zone 7), no drilling of holes required. (It is definitely not optimal from a safety standpoint, and will not pass "big-track" tech for SCCA and one or two other outfits.)

You can just loop the stock belt over the bar and let the upper mounting bracket slide along the belt. Makes the belt retract rather slowly, but it works.

With the six-point belts I did not have to cut holes in my seat (bad) or run the belt around the front of the seat (worse IMHO).

Ah, here is a link to a few pics of the install:
http://members.rennlist.com/damp_dave/belts.html

--DD

Thanks Dave, I'm beginning to get the picture now. I have a Renegade seat with cutouts and bolsters so I'll just have to feed everything thru, I guess I'll have to bolt the sub belt thru the floor below the seat to get the right geometry for the sub belt on mine, this is definately dooable so I can be ever so fast this autoX season leading to scorching times at WillowWCC05!! I plan to make it tomorrow if the good lord is willing and the creeks don't rise, etc.