I, had a set of cylinders, bored, honed and trued, by Rimco (Riddle Machine Co) last year, 103 opened up to 105, it was $80 to bore and hone, and $30 to true the tops.

I, picked up a set today, that I droped off last monday, 103 opened up to 105, it was $135 to bore and hone, and $40 to true them, WHAT A FN REAM JOB, $65 WORTH OF REAMING.

I asked smiley about the price, he says thats the price, it takes a couple of hrs to do that work, I said it wasn't the price on the last set I had done, smiley then said they raised the prices, I said yea you raised the prices at the beginning of last year, and the other set was done after the increase. I took the cylinders and left.

I, went back in three min later, I asked smiley, to speak to the other guy, the other guy came out, I asked him about the price, I told him what I paid for the last set, he comes of with, you said you were in a hury, and our boring machine was set up for something else, so we set up another machine to do your cylinders, so it cost more. I just shook my head and left.
At no time did I tell them I was in a hurry, I asked them what the turn around was, they said give a call wed, I called wed, they were finally done friday.

In less than 5 min I had 2 different bull**** stories, from 2 of there employees.

I, don't know if anybody else has had any problems with them, but ever since they raised there prices last year, and lost a few of there big accounts, us little guys are getting reamed (Reamed, Rimco, Toilet Rim ) , easy way to learn things is by association

Rimco is not the only place that has good machinists, local for us California boys and girls.


__________________
Richard

i don't understand why you'd leave parts for machining without a work order and a fixed price... prices go up all the time and they can charge what they want.

but, similarly, i'm surprised at the number of people who get pissed off when i ask what a service is going to cost. i'm the one writing the check here, i AT LEAST need to know what numbers to write down...

would you buy ANYTHING - even frozen peas at the grocery store - if it didn't have a price tag? maybe i've just been adversely affected by my poverty years, but i won't buy anything unless i know what i'm buying and what it's going to cost me.

I see you posted this on Pelican also. You must really be pissed. Maybe you'll ask next time how much it will cost and have someone write it up for you before the work is performed. Than you won't have to bash a vendor all over the World Wide Web.

Sorry to say this but, get over it.

Still cheaper than DIY.



Uhh... Paul, your signature looks like it says your head weighs 1315lbs.


M

Guess you boys haven't checked on the prices of carbide tool holders and tips lately.. Or the price of the power it takes to run machines, or the price of good help these days that won't steal you blind and that can run a lathe and boring bar without destrying the equipment and tooling....

Since the cylinders were 103s and probably made of recycled iron from somewhere in a 3rd world country (like all the others) they probably needed alot of truing, and that took extra time.... They WILL warp again and they will give problems because they suck and Rimco will probably get blamed for that too! Its not their fault because the part sucked to begin with.

A machinist never knows what he is gettin himself into until the job is done.

ANother thing: Have you ever set up a boring machine or even a lathe for that matter?? If you did you would know that the set up is the most time consuming part of the job and after its done the job is cake! I don't blame them for charging a set up fee, especially if you were in a hurry and they dedicated an entire machine for the job. Hell, they should have charged you extra for an inconvenience fee for being a damn whiner!

The price they charged you for boring is dirt cheap, even at its inflated (to you) price. I do the same work but charge twice that price for it and it still barely covers my expense for such a job.

Perhaps you would like to buy a boring set up and a lathe and while you are at it grab a mill too. You'll see when you buy the tooling and build fixturing just how big of a bitch that it is and how expensive cutters are these days. Last year I spent over 10,000 bucks on friggin tooling!

It never ceases to amaze me how much people in the 914 world whine about getting screwed. I know alot of people from different aspects of the Performanmce world and have never seen a group so picky about prices in my entire life. Thats one reason why I am so picky about trying to make new products for the 914.

Hell the other week I sold an assload of my videos and DVDs, I goofed up and charged someone 50 cents more than I was supposed to... I got a call from a whiner bitching about it! Its not like he called and said "Jake, you overcharged me for my video and I'd like a credit." He called up saying that " I placed an order on your store and my damn credit card got charged 50 cents more than it was supposed to and I demand a refund on the entire video!"

I got on the phone, slowly switched it off, went to the site and killed his username (of course it was something like blahblah914).... If he ever orders anything from me again- DENIED! It was very hard to retain my temper and not rip his head off for his un necessary treatment of my employee.

I am not taking up for Rimco at all. I am taking up for all of those in the industry that do our best and deserve to be treated like Humans that have completed a task/service and are due respect and the right to charge for it without someone bitching about being overcharged.

I'm with Paul, get over it or get out of the world of performance cars and engines....

And people wonder why I don't post A SINGLE DAMN PRICE for an engine on my website...

I'll probably get flamed to death here about this post- But I really don't give a damn... So many people these days are whiners and will bitch about the smallest things and when I see it, I get absolutely furious because I KNOW how hard it is to stay afloat in this world.

BTW, Rimco has been in business over 30 years. I had them bore my first VW case when I was 11 years old- I have NEVER been overcharged by them and never received shoddy work.... I don't use them much these days because I do all my own machine work.

If you have a problem, Call Todd and write them a letter and ask for a refund- Don't come online thrashing the damn place until you give them a full opportunity to remedy the situation-

If you want the right to bitch- You must go through the proper channels first.

I used Rimco a few months agoe for some head, case and crank work. They gave me a current price list and stuck to it. I even had a flywheel in my car that Slits gave me when I picked up the parts. They asked me if it needed surfacing and I told them yes but being from Bakersfield I didn't want to drive all the way back down to pick it up. They said no problem, give them 20 minutes and it would be done. Ran down the street for a burger and when I got back, there it was, all nice and shiney. Didn't charge extra for it either.

I'm with Paul and Jake. RIMCO is one of the best in SoCal for VW/TIV stuff. Hell, if you think RIMCO is expensive, take your 914 engine to a porsche engine specialist shop and ask for the same work. Having used a few of the other 'specialist' shops in SoCal, I'll be honest, you get the bang for your buck with RIMCO, and their work is good.

I agree...get the price in writing before you do anything. Leave easy to reach numbers for contacting you in the event of a problem.

Even the inflated price didn't seem to be out of line....

GOOD machine shops are getting harder to find. All the old school platers and machine shops are closing and there are no replacements...it's not like you can go down the street anymore to get stuff done. You gotta deal with who ya deal with...warts and all.

Just look at Porsche dealers...they don't rebuild anything anymore...bad engine, replace engine....bad trans, replace trans....

The second to last Independent air cooled VW/Porsche shop closed last year.... lost it's lease....we have one Indy shop left and he has a 3 month waiting list for oil changes....

Our local Porsche dealer won't touch anything more than 5 years old...

It's a changing world out there....cover yer ass....

Jake makes some good points: setting up and doing a good accurate job is time consuming - and if machinist makes a mistake due to time constraints to meet a price, another price will be paid down the road.........

As to prices, costs and "whining about being screwed".....well, I came to the 914 World from the Ferrari World....and I can assure you: NOTHING in the 914 world - including a full Raby motor - is expensive!

Rimco has been doing my work for 20 years and will continue to do so. Of course it helps that the main guy there is my neighbor. I always ask how much and I never rush them. The last set of heads I had done were for Jared and I told them no hurry. It was 3 weeks before I finally went over and picked them up. The work was perfect as usual and the price was what they told me. I have no complaints what so ever with them.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 15 2005, 11:02 AM)

I'll probably get flamed to death here about this post- But I really don't give a damn... So many people these days are whiners and will bitch about the smallest things and when I see it, I get absolutely furious because I KNOW how hard it is to stay afloat in this world.

Jake....now come on, you live in the world of VW bug/Porsche 914 guys....

Your not allowed to make a living...your not allowed to pay your employees a fair wage (too bad if they have kids...they should of thought of that before hand) and profit, what the hell are you thinking!!!!

$175 for a custom bore job... moan, bitch, complain....same old-same old.

No flames here buddy!
at least not at you

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 15 2005, 07:02 AM)

Perhaps you would like to buy a boring set up and a lathe and while you are at it grab a mill too. You'll see when you buy the tooling and build fixturing just how big of a bitch that it is and how expensive cutters are these days. Last year I spent over 10,000 bucks on friggin tooling! BTW, Rimco has been in business over 30 years. I had them bore my first VW case when I was 11 years old- I have NEVER been overcharged by them and never received shoddy work.... I don't use them much these days because I do all my own machine work.

Fuckin' A, Jake, I am a CNC machinist and most people have no concept of what it takes to run a machine...

And Rimco's reputation speaks for itself...

QUOTE

Fuckin' A, Jake, I am a CNC machinist and most people have no concept of what it takes to run a machine...

huh? I thought all you had to do was push da button

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 15 2005, 03:03 PM)

QUOTE Fuckin' A, Jake, I am a CNC machinist and most people have no concept of what it takes to run a machine... huh? I thought all you had to do was push da button

OMG don't touch that button!

It's the history eraser button if you touch it.....

what's a 914?

Can he ignore the bright, shiny button that even now beckons him???

Rimco boogered a piston for me, but their name is Riddle Machine, not Riddle Packing and Shipping.

Jake,
You tell it like it is.

I agree with everything you wrote. Except that we are cheap bastards.

Actually... I'm just frugal...

Twystd1

QUOTE

Can he ignore the bright, shiny button that even now beckons him???

YOU......... IDIOT!

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 15 2005, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE Fuckin' A, Jake, I am a CNC machinist and most people have no concept of what it takes to run a machine... huh? I thought all you had to do was push da button

Nope, much more involved... Try working with G-code sometime.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DonNewton
Oh, and let's not forget that "last year" was last year, and most times a business has to raise its prices to keep in business. Hourly rates can be a real PITA, and as a small business owner, I can understand the shops side of this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Don, last year, Rimco had raised prices on just about everything they do, the boring and honing on the cylinders last year reflected the new raised prices.

What would be a reasonable price raise this year? 10%, 15%, a company that does volume business would see a substantial revanue increase from 10 or 15%.

What would you call a 70% price raise? (70% of $80 is $56, they now charged me $135).

I, call it a Rimco Reaming, A Rip Off, Flat Out Stealing, The Big Screwing.

This is why I posted this, to warn everyone.

They wouldn't dare do this to there larger accounts, that they have left, they couldn't afford to lose any more Companys, like the ones they lost last year after they raised prices.

So they screw the little guys.

Don, I wan't to say thanks for your Respectful statement, regarding my posting, I saw that your opinion had value, along with a few others, so I felt I had better explain, why I posted my warning.

As, for the disrespectful opinons, one inparticular EAT SH?T

Thanks


__________________
Richard

Is he talking about Aaron????

Twystd1

No, Rimco is not Aarson's nickname.




M

QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Feb 16 2005, 12:45 AM)

Is he talking about Aaron???? Twystd1

No, he copied and pasted his reply from the Bird Board over here.

Like I said before, get over it. You would think they kicked your dog. It's only money, go out and make some more. Telling people to "Eat Shit" really doesn't do much to help your position. Go buy Dr. Phil's book and learn to play nice.

QUOTE (V6914 @ Feb 16 2005, 12:23 AM)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by DonNewton Oh, and let's not forget that "last year" was last year, and most times a business has to raise its prices to keep in business. Hourly rates can be a real PITA, and as a small business owner, I can understand the shops side of this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don, last year, Rimco had raised prices on just about everything they do, the boring and honing on the cylinders last year reflected the new raised prices. What would be a reasonable price raise this year? 10%, 15%, a company that does volume business would see a substantial revanue increase from 10 or 15%. What would you call a 70% price raise? (70% of $80 is $56, they now charged me $135). I, call it a Rimco Reaming, A Rip Off, Flat Out Stealing, The Big Screwing. This is why I posted this, to warn everyone. They wouldn't dare do this to there larger accounts, that they have left, they couldn't afford to lose any more Companys, like the ones they lost last year after they raised prices. So they screw the little guys. Don, I wan't to say thanks for your Respectful statement, regarding my posting, I saw that your opinion had value, along with a few others, so I felt I had better explain, why I posted my warning. As, for the disrespectful opinons, one inparticular EAT SH?T Thanks __________________ Richard

Welllll isn't THAT special.....no warm showers at midnight for you.....

Go someplace else....geez....WE have figured it out that

1) doan ask fer no rush job
2) doan fergit to get it in writting
3) doan shit on the doorstep on the way out....

Thread over...move along....

QUOTE

What would be a reasonable price raise this year?

Whatever it takes to keep the business going. Maybe they were losing money. Maybe last year's increases didn't cut it and they were still coming up short.

QUOTE

I, call it a Rimco Reaming, A Rip Off, Flat Out Stealing, The Big Screwing.

You payed what, and extra $65 from what you were expecting? Translate that into shop hours. You payed for less than 45 minutes of labor above what you were expecting. That's less than 12 extra minutes per cyl. Is 12 extra minutes per cyl to insure a good job unreasonable? Is this an unreasonable cost for setup time? NO. If you think it is then go to your neighborhood vo-tech school and take a machining class. You'll stop whining then.

Richard, when you contract machining services YOU ARE NOT BUYING A COMMODITY! Every job is different. Every job requires careful setup and methodical execution. If someone rushes a machining opperation it'll end up costing you a whole lot more than $65 to fix. You can't expect every cylinder they machine to take exactly the same time to complete to the same level of quality. You can't expect them to charge a flat rate for a job that can be different every time it's performed. You are being TOTALLY unreasonable.

If you still think you got ripped off then you should get quotes for the same work from some other shops. You'll see that you probably got a pretty good deal. On second thought, don't bother any more shops. They have reasonable customers to deal with, and work to get done.

-Ben M.

You know what's hilarious?

If AA had done this the thread would be totally different......

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with anyone... just that it's interesting if you stand back and look at the big picture.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 15 2005, 07:02 AM)

...It never ceases to amaze me how much people in the 914 world whine about getting screwed. I know alot of people from different aspects of the Performanmce world and have never seen a group so picky about prices in my entire life... ...And people wonder why I don't post A SINGLE DAMN PRICE for an engine on my website...

Heh, you should look at the T3 VW crowd...well, most air-cooled VW volks

Anyway, I would think that if 914ers are so picky you would, at the very least, give a floor cost with a likely end cost, thus giving a window of what an engine (or other service) would cost. I would think that if you've done enough engines you would have a low-end, high-end and average cost -- I come from the corporate reporting world and would think you have at least some idea of what your number are but I'm not familiar w/small businesses. I hate it when a web site doesn't give prices -- even a price with a disclaimer would be fine -- when I'm looking for a general idea of what something will cost me. At least I've been in the consumer side of modifying cars to know there almost always are extra costs involved. So I disagree with you on that point.

It is good that you (and others) pointed out the other stuff as many people don't realize what's involved since they aren't doing the work. I hadn't realized the machine set up was the biggest 'pain' factor.

Another issue is the Bad Apple syndrome. It only takes one to make the whole barrel rotten. There are shoddy businesses out there and a bad experience can make one weary of others. It sounds like this situation was poor and non-level-headed communication.

Unless you have a written quotation or order specification which you both signed off on which says exactly what *you* are saying your job spec was - and they are aware, and have deviated from it, you really have no complaint. So - unless you have a job sheet with the timeframe and price estimate - and they are out by more than 10% from that sheet (please attach image) - you are pretty much out of bounds.

If you are price sensitive enough that <$100 on a labor job is going to effect your purchase decision then you really need to get it in writing beforehand.

The only tenable complaint I see here is that they should have been a little more clear on what their idea of the job spec was. That is less than 100% professional, but doesn't justify the ferociousness of your complaint. Plenty of places are just too busy or just skip over this piece - which is why the California Bureau of Auto Repair mandates that for service work you are supposed to have the estimate first. You could have written it yourself and had them sign it too - it's your responsibility to make sure this happens - or if not - to take the risk or walk out the door.

If you really think you have a case, take it to a judge and see what they say.

hmmmmmm......

I have to agree that it looks like you guys are being a little hard on Richard here. While I do agree that Richard doesn't have a lot of room to complain about the cost if he didn't find out when he ordered the work, I think the point is that when he inquired about the reason for the price, he got 2 completely different explainations in the span of 3 minutes, the 2nd of which was premised on an out and out lie according to Richard. Whether it was $6.50 or $650 bucks, that part would piss me off, and I think if you are honest with yourself, the guys jumping on Richard would admit they would be pissed too. Whether you think the price he was charged is the deal of the century is not the point.

There are many good points offered in this thread, but some of the mean spirited personal attack stuff is not exactly this club's finest moment.

They have their prices posted for everyone to see.

Look Here

Posting prices did nothing except make my job harder...
Everyone always would say "The website says so and so, why is it more expensive".... I hated having to justify thefact that THEIR engines about 400% more developed than wghat was listed because of what they intended to do with it.

If someone is serious enough to want my custom engine- I want to talk to them, tell them the price myself and then stick to that.....

There is no standard here except performance and reliability and cost is my least concern when trying to attain those- My kind of customer appreciates this- otherwise they'll call a mass producer and get a price ending with 99 cents....

I do my best to NEVER build the same engine twice- so pricing is impossible. Every car is different, every driver is different and most climates impact the build and have to be taken into account. (For instance a customer in Colorado at 12,000 feet requires higher static CR than someone at lower elevation,. this creates more design and assembly work and costs more money- where you operate the engine can impact the price!)

Prices for complete engines will never be on my site.. You can go to the store and add up the parts or engine kit costs and then add 3-7K for assembly and you'll have a close guestimate on what it might cost...

Or pick up the phone and dial 10 digits and set up your chance at snagging a 30 minute window of my time to kill all guesswork..

QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Feb 16 2005, 11:36 AM)

I think the point is that when he inquired about the reason for the price, he got 2 completely different explainations in the span of 3 minutes, the 2nd of which was premised on an out and out lie according to Richard. Whether it was $6.50 or $650 bucks, that part would piss me off, and I think if you are honest with yourself, the guys jumping on Richard would admit they would be pissed too.

I think that this would be annoying - but having said that - if I asked 20 McDonalds employees why the Big Mac costs $xx.xx (I don't actually know how much a big mac costs).... I wouldn't expect them to have a consistent answer.

Unless you are talking to the decision maker who decided the prices, all bets are off.

Consistent answers are no longer a reasonable expectation in modern America. I wish it weren't so - but that's just the way it is.

You know it must be expensive when Jake jumps in to defend the cost. LOL

Nah- I even said I charge twice that much to do it! (and I have to turn down the work all the time because people are beating the door down wanting it done and my machines stay filled with our own work)

QUOTE (fiid @ Feb 16 2005, 04:17 PM)

Consistent answers are no longer a reasonable expectation in modern America. I wish it weren't so - but that's just the way it is.

I'm on neither side of this, nor do I have any

It's only not so - because you let it be. It's still unacceptable, in my book.

QUOTE (Lawrence @ Feb 16 2005, 02:35 PM)

QUOTE (fiid @ Feb 16 2005, 04:17 PM) Consistent answers are no longer a reasonable expectation in modern America.  I wish it weren't so - but that's just the way it is. I'm on neither side of this, nor do I have any It's only not so - because you let it be. It's still unacceptable, in my book.

We are all guilty.

I agree with Fiid.. the complainant's ferociousness and vociferousness seems way out of proportion for an incident like this. I would have been the first to respond to this thread, but frankly I was having a hard time taking it seriously. I've lost way more than $65 here and there on the engine work and such that I've had done over the years, and I never went on a website and bitched about it. You have to expect minor things like this to happen once in a while when you're in a hobby like this.

But I've never walked in Miles' shoes..

WE GOT THE POINT...............LOCK THE THREAD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.....

I have to agree with Mike on this one, I think this thread should be closed and let it drift off to LaLa land.

I'd like it nailed.




M

Keep it going...

haha

I'd like to know if the guys at rimco know he's bashing them??? Once his 105mm equipped motor goes "pop", he's going to be back at the machine shop for more work.....

He'll blame them if he forgets to put oil in it.

Put what?

QUOTE (redshift @ Feb 16 2005, 08:05 PM)

Put what?

did your car from Ot** come with oil?

What is it?

Oh, yeah, yeah... I put a quart in.



M

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2005, 12:32 PM)

...There is no standard here except performance and reliability and cost is my least concern when trying to attain those- My kind of customer appreciates this- otherwise they'll call a mass producer and get a price ending with 99 cents...

Huh, I didn't realize there were that many people with TIV engines that had money to burn. I would imagine that as a producer cost would be your least concern

Cost would be a huge concern if I was after the bottom line on a Tax Return..

Its not that the guys have money to burn- Most of them have already been burned and come to me as a last resort because they tried the other routes and got the short end of the stick.

I'll close the shop before I'll turn into a mass producer and I''ll starve before I sacrifice my reputation using crappy parts or half ass work just to gain work..

Don't see that happening anytime soon though- The engine side of the house here is 41 engines and 9.5 months backlogged..... Still no rush-

Almost all the engines here now are going into 356s.... A stock engine rebuild for a 356 cost 8-9K done right just to get MAYBE 90 HP.... So what I do for that same cost is very inviting to that crowd- One of them has bought 4 engines from me in the last year alone!

Very different than it used to be- This isn't 1981! It blows me away everyday.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 16 2005, 10:20 PM)

This isn't 1981!

Fuck! I knew I should have taken the blue pill

or one can decline to acquiesce to the request.