QUOTE (Paul Illick @ Feb 23 2005, 07:07 PM)

QUOTE (Steve @ Feb 23 2005, 02:20 PM) I love bugs but there only good for 1/4 mile drag strips and total sleepers on the avenue. I love to hang corners, auto cross etc. When I see a bug get top time of day at an autocross or willow springs I might look into investing my money in one. Actually the bug in the photos at the top of the thread was made with handling in mind, and when bugs are set up they can be more than respectable. Don't forget the early bugs only weighed 1600 pounds, and those supers, when they have 951 suspension and brakes, handle a heck of a lot better than most 911's. As for racing at Willow Springs (actually Streets of Willow) it's been done. Check this out: http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0112vwt_gforce/ That wasn't an autocross, but van Wettering's red bug was built at Bugformance in San Jose and holds class records nearly everywhere it's been raced, TTOD at some. If I recall correctly it came in second overall in that G-Force Challenge, beating, among other cars, a pretty nice 914. Granted Jack's bug is more of a race car than the nice street bug in the photos that started the thread. Jake's right about the pleasure of a fast bug that can embarass owners who simply can't admit that their car could be thrashed by an old VW. There's a lot of satisfaction in that. It may be perverted satisfacton, but hey. And if you think it couldn't happen to you, well... And Toast, disliking the car you were in because somebody else hit it? What exactly does that have to do with anything?

That article does not mention the skid pad ratings or that it even beat the 914.
That article also does not mention any actual track times at willow springs or any other track.
We can compare them to Otto's 914GT track time at Willow.
We can also compare those records to the 911's that it supposedly beat.

You're right, I know that only because I'm familiar with that car and read the original article. That linked web blurb is just excerpts because I couldn't find the complete original article online. If you're really interested there are actual times and final rankings on the Import Tuner magazine site, at http://www.importtuner.com/features/0111it...it_gforcepromo/

It's nothing definitive and wasn't a real open autocross event, just a hokey magazine comparison. I mentioned it only because there'd been doubt expressed about whether a bug could be made to handle and how one would do at Willow Springs. Voila. And if you google Jack Van Wettering you'll see some of his results at norcal autocross events. Apples to Oranges or course, but not bad at all.

QUOTE (Paul Illick @ Feb 23 2005, 08:07 PM)

[QUOTE=Steve,Feb 23 2005, 02:20 PM] Jake's right about the pleasure of a fast bug that can embarass owners who simply can't admit that their car could be thrashed by an old VW. There's a lot of satisfaction in that. It may be perverted satisfacton, but hey. And if you think it couldn't happen to you, well...

I would love to be next to a vet or camero or rice rocket and be able to take them off the line. What was really funny is when I would be first in line to a red light, and watch people behind me pull in the other lane. Then when the light would turn green, I would blaze away, and I would watch all those people who moved over at the red light come back over to the lane I was in, now that I was already 1/2 mile up the road.

QUOTE

And Toast, disliking the car you were in because somebody else hit it?  What exactly does that have to do with anything?

Its not only the fact that it would get totaled very shortly after I spent years fixing it up. It was also all the times It broke down, all the times I had to have it towed, all the times I would push it down the freeway, all the times I had to fix it on the side of the road, how many times I got screwed by paying someone to build or rebuild my engine (yea, thanks for scewing me Steve Tims and Mikes Racing Engines!). Shit, all three of my engine rebuilds cost me nearly 7,000 alone!
And also the fact that someone close to me died in my vw, and all the fucking shit I had to deal with afterwards.

Here's the start of my 10 step program:

"I have a 911. I'm an asshole."

I've decided to change my ways... I'm gonna sell everything and drive what Jake drives

Eric, if you do that you'll just be a plain "ass" like me...LOL

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Feb 23 2005, 07:37 AM)

These guys are my best customers- They do their cars right and don't bitch about the cost of it!

Jake, stop call 914 owners a bunch of cheapskates. The VW market for your business is larger because they made like 20 million Beatles. Even though a miniscule percentage of those guys build $20,000+ show cars that represents a lot of business for you.

They only made 100,000 914s. I'd bet that a much larger percentage of 914 owners have built $20,000+ cars.

QUOTE (Sammy @ Feb 23 2005, 07:21 AM)

Cool. You can spend $25k+ on a beetle that will almost keep up with a $5k 914 and will allegedly smoke a $15k 911 (color me skeptical). When you get done it will be worth a third of what you spent on it if yer lucky. I appreciate people building things because they are different, rare, cool, whatever, but they still do not make any sense at all.

aren't all 914's worth only a third of what we spend on them?

QUOTE (glstrojan @ Feb 24 2005, 11:52 AM)

QUOTE (Sammy @ Feb 23 2005, 07:21 AM) Cool. You can spend $25k+ on a beetle that will almost keep up with a $5k 914 and will allegedly smoke a $15k 911 (color me skeptical). When you get done it will be worth a third of what you spent on it if yer lucky. I appreciate people building things because they are different, rare, cool, whatever, but they still do not make any sense at all. aren't all 914's worth only a third of what we spend on them?

Here I can get way more for a nice bug than an equal 914. I turn work away all the time.

Fixing up a 914 to sell is a waste of my time.

I have a half dozen big T4 builds in progress, save a 356 they're all bugs.

In the last year or so I've done as many 914 rebuilds, all bare bones el-cheapo rebuilds. I've only had 1 tire-kicker, 914, big T4 guy and he had totally unrealistic time frame so I passed.

Any restored car will not be worth what you spend on it...what's it worth to you.

If you want senseable go buy a civic or neon, but even then you lose a 1/3 when you drive off the lot.