I have an appointment to transfer the car (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=257483) and get a title. Plates and registration in the glove box show last registered in 1989 and I have a signed bill of sale from the last registered owner (not the person I bought it from)

From some research according to California DMV vehicle code 4604(d)(3) and 5051 exepmts the car from penalties.

Does anyone have experience in this area in California that can chime in? My appointment is Monday and I'm a little nervous

Good chance it is off the books so no additional fees, I too am facing something similar but it has not been that many years.

I'm watching this closely. My /6 was last registered in the late '80s ...

Petrol cars will be outlawed and we'll be in magnetically energized flying contraptions by the time that gets on the road...hahaha

Said the guy who never had a running 914 because he always has to take them apart ...

I'm in the same boat, because DMV never sent a non-op/renewal to me in 92 & then wanted $1000+ & a re-smog (but the car wasn't running by then to do a smog).

BTW my renewal date was/is Dec 26 - so with 2 little kids then, it's no surprise that I didn't notice no renewal came in the mail, butg DMV a-holes push all responsibility to owners for their mistakes & then wanted that BS fee & full registration on 12/27!!!!

Mine is no longer in the system, so I don't know how they'll handle mine now if I claim the hobby/restoration exemption route.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&.../vc/d3/c1/a8.3/

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From this it sounds like they still have penalties - but not as egregious.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pu...d3/c1/a5/4604.5

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IMHO - your best bet is to fist just put in for new owner registrations, & if that doesn't work then play the dumb & innocent purchaser & ask for help in how to waive penalties/interest & maybe the DMV employee will help.

If you get stuck, PM or email me & I can give you the email to an OCR PCA member who is a lawyer & former OC Asst. DA & former DMV Attny., who may be able to get you a DMV Attny. in Fresno.

Good Luck & Please post outcome here!
Tom
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In cases like this i always go to my lady at a local registration service. . 2 reasons. . she can get around the red tape and make things happen when DMV employees seem to do just the opposite. . and she figures the cheapest way to do it. . DMV does the opposite. . still all legal but with none of the BS. .
I've done numerous motorcycles with no titles, and a few with very old bills of sale. .
Plus she completes the paperwork the same day and i get the plates and final paperwork the next. . the last time she was now authorized to verify vins, so no special trip to DMV or CHP for that. .

This is sound advice...and also how I got my mini-bikes titled and plated here in CA several years back when the DMV and CHP flat out said "no" sight unseen

Could you just register it out of state, even to a family member or friend. Then transfer it back to CA later.

Sorry to hijack, but when the hell did Mueller come back?? Mike!

Two words: Auto Club. Mine was off the books for fourteen years. They took care of everything, even the VIN verification. Done deal.

Andys

what's up with that Mike?

I didn't non-op mine for about 7 years and got the serious smack down on fees. Be careful.

I use donna leek at professional registration service in grass valley for all my old car registration work. I mail her whatever I have..which is sometimes nothing..and titles and tags appear a couple of weeks later. She's the best

Great lead.

AAA or a registration service as noted above, screw DMV.

I use a title service for my cars. Worth the extra $25 - 10x over. No hassles, the title just shows up as expected and nobody ever questions my $200 purchase price.

Yep I 100% agree pay the 350 dollars service they get it done fast accurately with or without a pink slip ask me how I know? We just did a 1972 BMW 2002 that was off the books since 1986. after VIN verification last known registered owner on a piece of paper $350 later the car was registered

here we go again - this comes up at least once a year - there are many threads with the same answers you will get here

throw away the old documents or at least pretend they never existed

you do an Application for Original Registration
- requires VIN certification

I also use Donna Leak - best - you never have to go stand in line at DMV, nor withstand the withering questions of a vin-cert cop who wants to prove it was stolen

- worth every penny she charges

i'm sure there are similar people (title services) in almost every CA city that has a lot of old-car guys

AAA will not touch this process

DO NOT even think about going to CHP for the VIN Cert - that will cause you a ton of grief



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Agree !

It was given to me by Grandpa just before he died and it didn't run. Grandma couldn't find the paperwork. I had it towed to my house.

Careful don't say "towed" if it is not registered it's tires can not touch pavement. Flatbed only.

Except on private property "off the public roads".

There is also a 1 or 2 day temp permit you can get to move/tow a car from DMV when it it not registered, but you'll have to look at the DMV's website for that. Not sure it applies in this case, but possibly.

Good Luck!
Tom
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In San Diego I used these guys lots of times. Fast and knowledgeable. My car hadn't been registered in 19 years when I got it. No non-op or anything. Took 2 or 3 days had new plates and NO back reg fees of any kind $25 bucks for the service charge and no DMV hassles Easily would have paid a hundred just for that. Not sure if they have a branch in your town but similar places are cropining up all over.

California Registration Services
593 El Cajon Blvd El Cajon, CA 92020
(619) 441-8263
Ask for Nikki

Just about completed this process with my 62 Lincoln. CA car that was last registered in CA in 1981 (according to plates). No title and got the car from someone who was not the last reg owner. You need to complete CA DMV form REG 256 (statement of facts), and REG 343 (app for title or transfer). Take those along with bill of sale to DMV. I had to pay ~$139 for my Lincoln which I did last week. My next appt is to bring the vehicle down for a VIN verification, which it sounds like you plan to do at the same time. After that you should be good to go. I was nervous too but it turned out to be a pretty simple process (go figure!). Good luck.

seems like a weird set of laws to buy an old car, restore it, then pay a penalty for not having it registered for 20 years....cause it was junk....

Question.
Could you sell the car out if state, then buy it back months later, then register it with that paperwork just as if you bought it off ebay that day?

rich

U can do anything as long you doan get caught.....

Sometimes it's the luck of the draw on who you get at the DMV counter!

When I did the YOM plate for our 1960 Avion T20 (sim. to Airstream) which did have current plates, it sailed through. But I've talked to lotsa other trailer owners at the vintage rallies & they have had nightmares lasting months or years when they got somebody who didn't know what they're doing.

And then my son's renewals from out-of-state in the Army & therefore exempt from smog checks (military exemption when you maintain a CA address) always seem to take 3-4 months to actually get the tags/stickers!!!!

Imagine all that from state employees at DMV!!!!

Hopefully he'll get a good clerk! Otherwise, leave & use one of the services!


Tom
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Rich - it's nothing more than a governmental money making scam, as I'm sure you have similar in Taxachusettes!

makes NO sense whatsoever - whether you've owned sitting in your garage or on your property, or if you bought it from someone else who did. It's just Cali BS!!

If push came to shove - one could take the car out of state & register it there themselves, then come to CA & just do a transferred title & reg from that state to CA - assuming that AZ, NV, OR or wherever is easier to register one off the books for a while!

Cheers!
Tom
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Just got back from the second trip to the DMV this week, first appt was Monday and they added the car back into the system, gave me a statement of facts sheet and VIN verification form and charged me $110 for a list of things. Called a local place that does VIN verification and they came out the next day to my house, verified the VIN and filled out the form. My appointment today the lady took all my paper work, asked about the plates, I asked if I could reinstate them and she said no that I had to turn them in, she gave me new ones and stickers and said my title would arrive in a couple weeks.

I was grumpy about not being able to keep the original California plates on the car but oh well...overall not bad

Well at least you got yours registered!

But I too want to keep the original blue/yellow plates on my car - especially since I'm the 2nd owner. since 1975

I thought there was a way to keep those blue plates, even when out of renewal for awhile, but it's too late for you Luke.

Oh Well!
Tom
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IRRC, that is for cars "in" the system. They took my Blue Ghia plates years ago because of that but I got to keep them on the 73 because it was non-op't and in the system.

I'll have to figure a way to keep them on the car one way or another.


Tom
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The only way I got to keep the plates that were on the car (blue/yellow) was to:

Have in my possession the last registration card.

Have in my possession the Pink Slip.

Have in my possession the Bill of Sale.

Fill out a "collector car form" and statement of facts and agree that the car would not be driven until approval came from Sackofpotatoes.

Waited 6 months for the DMV to decide that everything was ok.

Car had not been registered for 20 years. Also went through the VIN verification bullshit. The only question the DMV guy had was, "where are the emissions stickers?". My answer, "The car is 40 years old and you expect the stickers to still be on the engine/body?".

Thanx Ron, I think I have all that stuff, as noted inside your message below....



OK - so maybe I DO have a chance of keeping my original plates - since I'm 2nd owner since Dec. `75, car is no longer in the system, I have pink slip, my loan papers, all reg cards/non-op `75 - `91 + the 92 Non-Op renewal that came 3 months late, insurance & service records since my day one, car has been in my garage or on my property continuously since after the ditzy sorority bimbo "forgot to turn left to go up the [parking structure] ramp" & slammed my then freshly resto'd 914 into the concrete wall/column & mashed both ends! in late May 1985 while I was in biz grad school at UCLA, blah, blah, blah....

2 years ago I sent in the fee & request form to try to get any Reg info on PO/OO before me who bought it new 11/6/72, but they sent the check back with form saying no longer in records ... after almost a year of for DMV to figure it wasn't in their microfilm files in some musty Sacratomato basement!

No hurry to tackle DMV yet though, since she'll be trailered to all of the requisite mechanic & body shops for resto work!

I'll post a topic on that whenever I do it, so others may have the benefit of what I leard to do .... & not to do!

Cheers!
Tom
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From that point forward, I decided the DMV was a useless organization and use a title / lien sale service. Well worth the extra $35 it cost me.

What about just not turning them in? Get personalized plates with same letters/numbers (you will have to make up something for it to mean, favorite teachers initials and birthdate?). Then put the originals on when you want to be OG.*

*No idea if this would really work, and I assume no liability if they haul your off to jail.

DMV won't give you any new plates until & unless you turn in the old ones - whether in-state or out-of-state AFAIK. Even on new cars you turn in your prior numeric-order plates to get personalized ones.

As for the personalized route, well those are still new plates, & not the ones historically & originally on a collector car - so that defeats the purpose anyway.

I've also seen cars at events with their "modern plates" repainted in blue/yellow, black/yellow, yellow/black, etc. - which is totally illegal in CA .... but some folks do it for the vintage look - especially on cars past the `69 YOM eligibility ....

So for folks like us we either fight DMV's labyrinth personally or thru a service!

IIRC - it only took DMV 2-3 months to confirm use of the YOM Yellow/Black 1956 series plate with 1960 sticker & issue the new month & year stickers with those little aluminum "flags" for our 1960 Avion Trailer + they took the old plate, issued a paper temp plate good for 90 days, & made me swear on their form that I wouldn't use the YOM plate until they gave permission or end up in a Gulag!!

I did that one myself - after coaching by the ex-DMV Sacto HQ guy who used to do the verifications that they were not in use for YOM plates, who had sold me the lightly used 1960 sticker for my NOS 1956 plate (btw - trailers & motorcycles only require 1 plate, cars & trucks require 2 matching plates for the YOM program).


Tom
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Ron - why did it take that long for you to decide that!!??

CalTrans is useless too - that's why they still haven't finished all the bridge & freeway overpass columns seismic upgrades to avoid the collapses in Oakland in the 1989 earthquake!!

.... & they've had the money since 1990!!!

State employees like to ensure job security by foot dragging & doing other personal stuff & chit-chat at work - instead of the job at hand!


Tom
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Small world. . . That's who I use and she always comes through.

I thought California has new classic plates? But I see that the 1970s didn't get enough orders.

Yes - kind of a farce - because they never told people that each series had to get the minimum number - but only the overall group of all plates as everyone understood!

So I think that a lot of 70's owners held off, but then they were the only series of all of them that does not have the YOM option!

Hopefully they'll reopen the issue for 1970's blue/yellow repros.

But again, those will still be new issue plates - vs. having the old original plates on the cars!

Plus the DMV's repros are all flat plates with painted numerals, instead of the original style stamped numbers.


Tom
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I've seen a couple of the black/gold new legacy plates, and they are stamped, much like the originals. Sure wish the blue/gold had made the minimum.

I had no problem getting my car registered in CA. I bought from out of state with no idea as to the last registration date, and purchased from a person that was not on the title. I don't know if it's just my dumb luck or pleasant demeanor, but I have never once had a DMV issue. Do your research and make an effort, make an appointment, be honest, be friendly, and ask for their advice. The worst thing you can do is be rude and get upset when they tell you something you don't want to hear.

I was dreading having to deal with Calf. DMV as well, last year. Getting mine back on the road after being in storage since 1987. And last reg'd in GA.

Easier than I'd figured----told 'em I'd just had it shipped from GA, and what should I do? All sorted in couple trips for paperwork & VIN verify.

Fully expecting the usual 'waaaay more than I ever figured CA DMV could possibly cost' ---but cost was really reasonable.

A first for me, as far as CA DMV goes.

Dave K. -

Unless they changed their plans & started stamping them after all - that would've been a flat plate with the letters painted on - including shadow-lines IIRC - or else an actual old NOS Yellow/Black-Letters plate (still out there, I got one for our 1960 Avion in 2014).

I agree about the Blue/Yellow ones!

I don't think DMV made it clear that they needed the minimum 8000 apps for EACH plate type/series, otherwise more folks with the `70's classics surely would've signed up!

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Briby & pSquared -

I think it's easier coming in from out of state, than if you have a car in long term storage (off the roads) without being Non-Op in state - as I & a few others above have stated we face. For that reason, if it becomes onerous to register in CA for us, we may have to go out of state to register & "store" ours, then come back into CA with out-of-state Reg/Non-Op.

CA created a "Catch 22" when they stacked Smog Check + Non-Op together - back before the exemption.

Cuz they required continuous Non-Op or else a Smog + Reg for 1 year to re-enter Non-Op ~ even when the car was non-operable & continuously in storage & off the public roads as required - i.e.: unable to drive to get the damn smog check ~ & even when it was THEIR damn mistake to not send out the Non-Op renewal until 3-4 months later!!

That was my problem in `92, after 7 years on Non-Op in dry storage in my garage, then they wanted smog + inspection (car had accident damage) + regular reg + $1500+/- in penalties = huge & impossible hassle & $2500+/- in 92 to get mine renewed & back on the books - so I didn't!

Hopefully I can keep my original plates & get it registered whenever the resto is done for not an unreasonable cost .... somehow!

Cheers!
Tom
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I just recently register my 1975 with DMV, regarding the blue plates they said file the application for re-use/re-issue of the blue plate and the State would make the call about re-issuing them You have to have both front and back plates in hand to do this. Otherwise they issue current plates for use until a decision is made.

I do have both, & all service, loan & other paperwork & reg. info since I bought it as 2nd owner back in Dec. `75.

Also for those who don't know - even though all but the 1969 first registered 914s (70 MY) are not eligible for YOM plates - IF you can locate the original plates F & R from a particular car - then it is also eligible for re-assignment BACK to the original car they came on when first registered new - even for later owners!

A lot of "IF's" in there, but still possible.

In my case & those others above - most of what DMV will be checking for, is that the plates/numbers were not put on another vehicle since whenever they went off the car - just as they do with YOM plates.

If you're in that position with original plates in hand, PM or email me & I can give you the 916 number to Sacto DMV where they check it, so that you'll know in advance if they're already assigned to another vehicle.

How can that happen you ask, if you have the plates in hand? .... well one set must be counterfeit copies!

I did that before I bought the NOS yellow plate & used blue 1960 sticker/number for our 1960 trailer (in pic below - only 1 plate & different number sequence for trailers), so it's a good idea to do it before you pay the money!

Click to view attachment

PS - BTW those aluminum tabs for the "modern stickers" are free from DMV if you request them - even if you're just getting new month sticker on older plates, then you can keep the plate + stickers vintage looking. They're also available for sale for license plate vendors online, etc.

Cheers!
Tom
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Definitely stamped. In fact, they're using the same molds as the originals:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-f...0622-story.html

Click to view attachment

Regarding the blue plates, they had a running tally on the DMV website, so I knew each legacy plate had to meet the quota, but I agree, it really wasn't made clear when the DMV made the original announcement.

Very cool then!

Much better than their original prototypes in flat metal originally shown on their website.

I didn't see the running tally after the initial ad campaign for them which did not make it clear, since never went back to their webpage for it after then, cuz I still have my original blue/yellow plates with the 914.

Thanx for clarifying Dave!
Tom
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For those still desiring those 1970's era Blue/Yellow repro CA plates ....

.... especially if they're going to be real stamped ones!

IMHO the original idea of flat painted ones was a bit of a turn off to many!

It may be worth your talking it up with other car clubs with the 1970's cars - including the US ones - to see if a petition to DMV & drive to reopen the blue/yellow plates - with orders to follow, to see if you can get the 8000 or whatever is needed!

They may just be open to revisiting the subject, if some car guys could pull together those 8000 or more orders for them!

Just sayin'!
Tom
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