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EdwardBlume
I tested the battery tonight and its putting out a charge. The ABM from what I can tell, has a new engine harness, MSD, JWest fuse panel, a blasted interior, H4s with relays, and a newerish stock board.

With nothing "on", hooking up the battery seems to "arc" the front headlight motors, or something up front.

Transmission ground is on, battery (-) is ground, front turn signal grounds are attached.

Nothing at the ignition, although with light switch "on" no "arc" but no light. Ignition switch seems loose. Wiper handle is very loose.

I bought a color diagram, but I'm color blind.

Is there a method to trace electricity step by step from the battery out through the harness, into the dash, and out to the lights?

I need to get this ABM on the road!
76-914
QUOTE(RobW @ Jun 13 2015, 12:40 AM) *

I tested the battery tonight and its putting out a charge. The ABM from what I can tell, has a new engine harness, MSD, JWest fuse panel, a blasted interior, H4s with relays, and a newerish stock board.

With nothing "on", hooking up the battery seems to "arc" the front headlight motors, or something up front.

Transmission ground is on, battery (-) is ground, front turn signal grounds are attached.

Nothing at the ignition, although with light switch "on" no "arc" but no light. Ignition switch seems loose. Wiper handle is very loose.

I bought a color diagram, but I'm color blind.

Is there a method to trace electricity step by step from the battery out through the harness, into the dash, and out to the lights?

I need to get this ABM on the road!

Rob, Pull one fuse at a time until it doesn't arc when reconnecting the cable. Or, use a meter to check for amp pull. Same result. Once you've identified the circuit start tracing it down. GL w/ the color blindness thing. I'm hue blind. Used to mix up my socks all the time. Now I just wear white socks. av-943.gif
Mike Bellis
Verifying the entire systems can take several days/weekends. It's most challenging with color blindness. Sounds like you need a build party! piratenanner.gif

Or, I can wait until you are totally frustrated and buy the car off you super cheap... happy11.gif
Andyrew
QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jun 13 2015, 07:42 AM) *


Or, I can wait until you are totally frustrated and buy the car off you super cheap... happy11.gif



That was the plan I had with your car.... chowtime.gif
Mike Bellis
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jun 13 2015, 07:48 AM) *

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jun 13 2015, 07:42 AM) *


Or, I can wait until you are totally frustrated and buy the car off you super cheap... happy11.gif



That was the plan I had with your car.... chowtime.gif

av-943.gif

slap.gif
Tom
Being color blind and not having a full understanding of what you are working on can lead to trouble. Get Mike to come over and fix that electrical system. You will learn while he is helping you and he understands how to keep it safe.
The first step when you hook something up electrically and it "arcs" is to remove power and leave it removed until the problem has been defined and repaired.
Tom
Electrical/electronics for 49+ years and red/green color blind. There are ways to overcome being color blind and still be effective.
EdwardBlume
So black is your always on power right? What is always on in the front trunk? Plus, if the fuel pump in the front trunk was not connected to anything could this be my arc without ignition?
Mike Bellis
QUOTE(RobW @ Jun 16 2015, 05:42 PM) *

So black is your always on power right? What is always on in the front trunk? Plus, if the fuel pump in the front trunk was not connected to anything could this be my arc without ignition?

If your fuel pump was not connected and the wire were not touching anything, that is not the cause of your spark.

Red is constant power at the headlight relay. Not black. Black from your ignition switch is "hot while cranking".

When's the build party? chair.gif
r_towle
pull every fuse, see if the batter sparks.
If YES, you have an aftermarket circuit that you need to find.

IF NO
Add one fuse at a time, repeat test till you find the culprit.

rich
Kansas 914
QUOTE(r_towle @ Jun 17 2015, 09:48 AM) *

pull every fuse, see if the batter sparks.
If YES, you have an aftermarket circuit that you need to find.

IF NO
Add one fuse at a time, repeat test till you find the culprit.

rich

agree.gif
Dave_Darling
There are, sadly, some unfused circuits. Even on cars with unmodified wiring. I don't remember what they are offhand, but digging through the wiring diagrams will show them. Look for lines coming straight from the battery that don't go through any "Sx" (where x is a number) before getting to some component.

--DD
Kansas 914
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jun 17 2015, 11:58 AM) *

There are, sadly, some unfused circuits. Even on cars with unmodified wiring. I don't remember what they are offhand, but digging through the wiring diagrams will show them. Look for lines coming straight from the battery that don't go through any "Sx" (where x is a number) before getting to some component.

--DD

DD - I didn't know that about unfused circuits - or if it was mentioned before I chose to forget it as it is scary.

We should document that here for future reference. That is important to know.

Thanks!
JeffBowlsby
Here is my unfused circuits list for a 1974 914.
Mike Bellis
The 4 red wires (some have 5) connected to the positive battery terminal are the unfused circuits. One goes to the ignition switch. One goes to the fuse panel. One goes to the relay board (some have 2) and one to the alternator.

I think Tom was selling an add on fuse panel for this location. If you fuse these near the battery (within 18 inches) you will be safe.
Kansas 914
Jeff and Mike

Thanks for the info it is most helpful. Cheers!
EdwardBlume
Update: I added fuses to the fuse box... that should help.

Installed the CDR220 but theres quite a few stray wires under the dash. Will dig some more this weekend.
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jun 17 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Here is my unfused circuits list for a 1974 914.

If there are unfused circuits, does that mean there will be power drawn for testing for shorts.. i.e. the clock?
JeffBowlsby
QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 13 2015, 10:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jun 17 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Here is my unfused circuits list for a 1974 914.

If there are unfused circuits, does that mean there will be power drawn for testing for shorts.. i.e. the clock?


Nope. Clock is on Fuse 11. You have a factory wiring schematic and know how to read it right?
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jul 13 2015, 10:16 PM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 13 2015, 10:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jun 17 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Here is my unfused circuits list for a 1974 914.

If there are unfused circuits, does that mean there will be power drawn for testing for shorts.. i.e. the clock?


Nope. Clock is on Fuse 11. You have a factory wiring schematic and know how to read it right?

Yes, thanks. I got the color laminated one. Just not in front of me right now. I'll post picts of the stray wires to see if the right places can be attached.
walterolin
Color laminated one is easier to follow, but be aware it has some missing elements. For example the internals of the door switches are not drawn. You will need the Haynes schematics to use together with the color version.

EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jun 17 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Here is my unfused circuits list for a 1974 914.

The unfused items require ignition switch or lights on right?

I should be able to get car off with ignition off, lights off, and doors closed right?
Dave_Darling
Well, there will still be power to many of those things. Not necessarily power going through them and out the other side, but power to them indeed.

--DD
EdwardBlume
Thanks Dave.

I'm trying to run this type of test to check for shorts:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLrTjeb9TY

Any thoughts on other methods? Thx
EdwardBlume
So I added all the fuses and put an inline 7.5 amp fuse in the ground line.

100% ignition off, a connection makes the light motors pop on. WTH? The "arc" mentioned earlier was actually the motors...

Any ideas?
McMark
Your headlight switch may be wired wrong or busted. We can have a wiring diagram tech session at my farewell BBQ. wink.gif
ConeDodger
blink.gif
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 17 2015, 09:41 PM) *

Your headlight switch may be wired wrong or busted. We can have a wiring diagram tech session at my farewell BBQ. wink.gif

That'd be cool unless the BBQ is over my cooking wires.
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 17 2015, 09:44 PM) *

blink.gif

Thanks for the Sandbox retread Robbie!
Dave_Darling
Either the headlight switch or the headlight motors are wired wrong. There's always power going to the motors, I believe, or at least to the relays. There are microswitches in the housing of the motor (actually on the little gear train I think?) that open and close when the light is open and closed. Plugging stuff in wrong can cause them to keep going...

--DD
EdwardBlume
Some more testing with the inline fuse to ground. The front marker lenses come on and the headlights pop up and stop. Putting them down manually makes them pop up again.

Turning the headlights on does nothing but the rear lamps turn on.

Fogs don't turn on. No turn signal, but the marker light gets brighter.

Ignition on: no change.

I'm wondering if my ignition switch is busted or not plugged in right.

Tried a quick crank, no crank....

Left it on for 2 mins or so, no burning no fires....
ConeDodger
QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 18 2015, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 17 2015, 09:44 PM) *

blink.gif

Thanks for the Sandbox retread Robbie!


Hey! It was my sandbox retread! av-943.gif
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 20 2015, 12:25 PM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 18 2015, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jul 17 2015, 09:44 PM) *

blink.gif

Thanks for the Sandbox retread Robbie!


Hey! It was my sandbox retread! av-943.gif

That's Reno? Figures....
blackmoon
QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 17 2015, 09:41 PM) *

Your headlight switch may be wired wrong or busted. We can have a wiring diagram tech session at my farewell BBQ. wink.gif


Yes, wiring tech!
EdwardBlume
Are these two wires the radio? What gauge wire is speaker wire?
McMark
Those don't look like factory connectors. Is there a radio installed?
Dave_Darling
QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 19 2015, 03:03 PM) *

Some more testing with the inline fuse to ground. The front marker lenses come on and the headlights pop up and stop. Putting them down manually makes them pop up again.


There is power going to the "turn on the headlights" circuit. If the lights go up again, that means there's power still to that circuit. The switch is mis-wired, it sounds like.

Headlight motor circuit:
- If power is applied to the "raise the lights" terminal, the lights go up until the "light is open" microswitch inside stops them. If you crank the light down, as soon as the microswitch gets opened up again from the movement, the motor will run again and keep running (through the "light closed" position) until it gets to the opened position again.
- If power is applied to the "lower the lights" terminal, the lights will go down until the "light is closed" microswitch inside stops them. If you keep the power on to that terminal, and crank the light partway open, the microswitch will eventually open. Then the light will open up the rest of the way and continue until the microswitch again stops it--when the light is closed.

--DD
JeffBowlsby
QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 22 2015, 10:16 AM) *

Are these two wires the radio? What gauge wire is speaker wire?


Those two go to the "Fasten Seatbelt" light Rob.
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jul 22 2015, 09:59 PM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 22 2015, 10:16 AM) *

Are these two wires the radio? What gauge wire is speaker wire?


Those two go to the "Fasten Seatbelt" light Rob.

That makes sense. There's no light anymore so should I tape and tuck them?
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 22 2015, 08:34 PM) *

Those don't look like factory connectors. Is there a radio installed?

No, but I need wires for installing a CDR 220? cheer.gif
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jul 22 2015, 09:07 PM) *

QUOTE(RobW @ Jul 19 2015, 03:03 PM) *

Some more testing with the inline fuse to ground. The front marker lenses come on and the headlights pop up and stop. Putting them down manually makes them pop up again.


There is power going to the "turn on the headlights" circuit. If the lights go up again, that means there's power still to that circuit. The switch is mis-wired, it sounds like.

Headlight motor circuit:
- If power is applied to the "raise the lights" terminal, the lights go up until the "light is open" microswitch inside stops them. If you crank the light down, as soon as the microswitch gets opened up again from the movement, the motor will run again and keep running (through the "light closed" position) until it gets to the opened position again.
- If power is applied to the "lower the lights" terminal, the lights will go down until the "light is closed" microswitch inside stops them. If you keep the power on to that terminal, and crank the light partway open, the microswitch will eventually open. Then the light will open up the rest of the way and continue until the microswitch again stops it--when the light is closed.

--DD

OK. Thanks for the detail. Much appreciated. I'll take a look at the wiring then.

I also have two back up switches (headlight and ignition) on the way in case I need them. I think I'll take the steering, gauges, and lower pad out to see what I can see.
EdwardBlume
Is this connection missing a pin? It's under the steering looks like an indicator connection. Black and red wire.

JeffBowlsby
Check to see if you have 5 wires to that connector, that cavity should have a brown/black wire. Its your intermittent wiper delay circuit. I bet its there. What seems to be missing is the male prong from the wiper switch...you must have some other switch in there that does not have the wiper delay circuit in it.
EdwardBlume
Yep, 5 wires in, 4 prongs connecting. You can see the wire (blurry)... brown and black? Dang.
EdwardBlume
Put a new ignition switch in, the old one looked OK though. Did find 2 unattached wires though coming from the ignition switch. That's not right is it?
EdwardBlume
I think I'm getting closer to the issue. With battery on, the headlights are live. Headlight switch off, still live.

Ignition switch which should be live is completely without power. In fact, there's two wires just dangling there.

Best I can figure, one is where the real live should go, the other should be switched back to the lights or seats or something.

JWest fuse box looks good. Headlight switch is out but there's a ton of wires to it.

What do you think?

Pict one are the two stray wires off the ignition switch. One for sure is power.
EdwardBlume
Next pict is the fuse box. Does this look right to you?
EdwardBlume
Last pict set is the headlight switch. Looks like power shares a connection with a slightly different wire....
EdwardBlume
Darn... crappy picts... need to study the headlight switch now.... type.gif
76-914
poke.gif Even Andy takes better pic's than that. wacko.gif In the 1st pic; is that a burn spot on the red wire adjacent to the insulation covering the spade? Also, notice the witness marks on that same sheathing. It appears that those indentations are the result of two opposing spade connections pressing against it. Like this l=
McMark
The two wires in your hand are for the cigarette lighter.

Can't do much with the blurry pics. If you're using a cell phone, get a camera. If you're using a camera, set it to Macro mode. Or take the pictures from farther back. Good light on the subject can reduce blur as well so get out the shoplights.
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