I have an offer in on the car. Need your opinions quick, stat, pronto!

Decided to start a new clean thread, since I was piggy-backing onto someone else's thread.

The original thread is here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=258093&hl=

Took the car for a good drive.

Engine fired right up, sounded very good.

Shifting was about as sloppy as one can imagine. If I hadn't driven 914s before, this car would have been nearly undriveable.

More rust than I had hoped for. There was no way to take the rockers off, so any purchase would be contingent on a more thorough inspection. I felt up under them... seemed greasy, but not rusty.

The car will need some significant restoration. Paint code is 80 (Ivory) and I have a personal "no black car" policy, so at least going back to stock color will be good for me.

Certificate of Authenticity has been ordered. Believed to be a numbers matching car.

Some items/issues:

- The ever-popular broom-stick mod for rear trunk.
- Rear trunk latch broken
- Front trunk won't open, cable broken. Needs to be fixed before can fill it with gas (the cable recently broke... guesstimate it is down to 1/4 tank).
- Fuel gauge broken.
- Glove box missing (the door is there, but hanging loose, no box behind it).
- Some rips in seat vinyl.
- Cracked dash, loose dash vinyl .
- Passenger door pocket is loose.
- oil leak.
- Terrible paint.
- Chrome on bumper is terrible.
- Rust: see pix, they should be pretty self-explanatory.
- What are those round areas in the rear trunk that are sealed over? My 914-4's have similar ones, but that larger one on this car doesn't seem original to the manufacture of the car.
- Shocks are shot.
- Shifter is a total mix-master. Could beat eggs to a froth with all that slop.

Plus items:

It's a six.
Cool license plate.
Local car.

Pix to follow in a moment:

Pix: (will post in a few batches):

Batch 2:

If it's not to crazy on the money DO IT you know you want to. Hell, it'll probably do better than your 401K they way these are going.

Batch 3:

Batch 4:

Last batch:

Mike,

Check if the engine & trans numbers are matching - if it doesn't have a COA to confirm - then PCNA may confirm it for you on the phone if you give them the numbers verbally or in emailed pix ,& tell them you're looking at buying it & will buy the COA if/when you do buy.

Then get with Dave Walker/toolguy &/or Andy Thonet/SoCal Andy - they're both close in East SD & OC respectively - on what it will cost to resto it .... or at least get it to be a good runner at least!

They've both done their -6 restos recently & should have a good handle on costs & time. Andy is working on some others' -6 restos now too IIRC. PM or email them stat ... pronto .... quick!

At least you won't be upside down with a 6-resto!

PS - I knew that "ride" with Andy at Temecula hooked ya!
Also - 80 (or 8010) is Light Ivory - so a bit closer to white than Ivory & there are several 6's around in that color to look at for comparison.

Good Luck!
Tome
///////

Do it already!

On ebay now...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Porsche-Other...utorefresh=true

Sorry, I am the highest bidder $202.50

Well that lasted all of about 4 minutes
I really don't have room or time for another 914 project car anyway.

Seems like a solid project.

I would just sort it out and drive it !

Yes, seems like a pretty decent car. It looks somewhat similar in condition to my green car when I got it. And I think the investment required is similar.

I think the math is something like:

$30k - buy the car
$10k - metal/rust/body work
$10k - paint
$5k - interior
$20k - rebuild engine and transmission
$10k - lots of small parts, bolts, rubber, plating, etc

= $85k total + a bazillion hours of work and you have a REALLY nice 914 that you could probably sell for $80k-$85k. But that's at least a year from now, so prices will either be way up, or you'll have $85k into a $40k 914!

But if you're going to do the project to keep it for a long time and have fun, this seems like a really great start.

-Steve

< Also - 80 (or 8010) is Light Ivory - so a bit closer to white than Ivory & there are several 6's around in that color to look at for comparison.

Are you sure? I understand L80E is Ivory, but sixes had two digit paint codes and "80" should be Silver (80 or 8010),

See:

http://www.p914.com/p914-6_paint_70.htm

and

http://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/914Colors.htm

-Steve

From the vin I'm pretty sure that is the car that use to belong to Clark Riener here in San Diego back in the 80's. . he is TPINES on our site. .
The last figures were in the ballpark to restore a 6. . maybe a little light on the rust/body/ paint though depending on what you find when it's apart. . plus, I'd personally want to remove the fiberglass flairs and return it to bone stock. . . that is where the real money is if you want it restored correctly. If it's just to be a driver, do what you want but don't consider it a money making investment in that case.

Same old story, It's usually better to buy the best you can afford rather than doing the restoration yourself. . you seldom get your labor back out of it. .

Kinda depends on the final rust condition. It's not cheap to fix.

Mike, how about this 6 conversion for $30k.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=258125&hl=

Click to view attachment

You are making a bet on the 914-6 market. What goes up really fast can go down just as fast.

Personally, having had one, it is not that fast and not that different a car from a 914. You can still buy those all day long in the same condition for $5000 or less.

A sure thing? No.

If you always wanted one, planned on keeping it forever, and like working on them, maybe.


Look at http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-mar...ace-discussion/

don't let people who don't own a six or have never restored a rusty 914 spend your money for you. When you spend $80k to purchase and restore a car that currently has an $80k value, it's not really an investment. Buy it if you always wanted one, don't buy it if the dollars have to make cents

If your looking for power, a stock 6 is not the answer - increased displacement 4 has an upper hand there in many ways.

As for the market, as the old saying goes, never buy a car for an investment... There's a lot of money flowing into the classic Euro car market these days. I have to wonder if the bubble will burst soon like the muscle car market did several years back.

However, if you desire to have a 6 and desire a major project, then go for it.

If this car "checks all the right boxes" for you then what are you waiting for?

I fully agree about a bubble...it's coming (they always do). The question is, how high does it get before it pops and where does it land?

There aren't that many 6's out there. This one is running and driving. You can spend a few dollars getting the transmission and other small issues fixed while you decide your long term strategy.

As in every restoration it is more likely that you will find some more things to do and this sum, Steve has mentioned, may rise.

If you have the funds go for it.

This^

If you want a Real Six to Enjoy, buy one already done at a higher price. It doesn't have to be $100k.

Mike - This appears to be a solid car if the numbers come back matching. If that were the case and you are looking for a project, I see no reason to pass on this one. How often do you find one you can actually drive before buying? I also agree this is in the $80K-ish range, possibly more, to make it right. If those are fiberglass flares, I too would get rid of them and go back to stock-bodied. Mine had the exact same front valance when I bought it and was black too . Good luck on your decision.

Obviously you have the hots for a real six..... so the question is do you want a project, or a ratty driver, or a nice car??

If you want a project - this fits the bill at a fairly reasonable price - go for it.

If you want a ratty driver - this fits the bill at a fairly reasonable price - go for it.

If you want a nice car, spend the money and get one because the spend will be the same but you will be a 1 - 2 years away from having it done.

This assumes that you have the financial where with all to go any of these ways.

If you want a nice driver and do not have the finances, buy a nice conversion and don't look back.

I am in the middle of a six restoration right now, doing the mechanical myself. It takes longer, consumes more personal time and more money than you imagine. I have not started the body work and that will be a whole nother phase of the project (think more time). I am enjoying it but I AM NOT DRIVING. Look at the dates of posts in these build threads - years are invested. Siverson's numbers are close enough, including the adjective to describe the time invested - "a bazillion" hours.

If you want it, get it. This is not a time that you can be choosy about the purchase price.

Not usually! Most of the time, you pay pennies on the dollar for what a race car build costs. The real expense comes when you have to tear out someone else's mods to make the car "right" for your use. (E.g., the cage isn't safe enough, your vintage racing outfit won't let you use the bigger motor, you are building for a specific class and need to pull 300 lbs out of the car, etc.)

But buying a working race car usually costs about 10%-50% of what it would cost to buy a street car and turn it into a racer.

--DD

I would pass on it. And I did pass on it. There isnt one thing on the car that doesn't need to be redone.

I can buy a real 6 thats a lot closer to done for $55k.

you can buy mine with a truckload of Spare parts for for 60K (or trade for a nice BMW)

that will save you $25K, and 15 yrs of dribbling money into the project

see it june 28 at SVR Concours SVR Concours

If you want bigger HP, then it is cheaper to make power with a 4-cyl than it is with a 6.
The hp/$$ figure is larger for a 4. (just ask Brant).

If you have always wanted a true 6, go for it.

If it WASNT a 6-cyl, I would run away fast.
( My evil twin thinks that would be a perfect candidate for a VIN swap with a good roller....but that would be "immoral" )

Thanks for all the comments, guys! Yeah, I was disappointed with the level of rust, especially along the front cowl and passenger door.

Apparently when the car was parked 2-3 years ago it was in much better shape, but has been sitting near the ocean.

As stugray says, I would not consider this car at all if it weren't a real six.

I really like the idea of a "real" six rather than a conversion, since I love the originality.

But, after riding in Andy's six conversion, you sure can't argue with the fun factor of that performance!

Well, I'll wait and see what the seller says about my offer on the car. It's a car that I could drive while fixing up.

Originally Black or Ivory or Silver or Ivory

I will just add when I bought mine, it was a running driving Six - kind of. I too thought I would just make it a safe driver and enjoy it for a couple years before diving into a full restoration/rebuild. Well, once I started adding up all of the parts it would take to make it safe as an around town driver, I quickly realized that was just not a smart move for me. So I parked it and then shipped it to Scotty where it has been for over three years now ( ) being correctly restored and rebuilt. I am hoping it will be back to me by the end of this year......

Mike, Andys car is a real six just a hot rod.

I did not know that- I thought that car (red with flares) was a conversion. Not that there is anything wrong with that.......

It will be here on Wednesday to get the trunk open and a couple of other things. He mentioned something about a PPI as well.

Come on by and have another look and we can talk about what we see...

Mugs

Ah, yeah, I forgot that Andy started with a six before he turned it into the beast that it is.

Mugs, I gave him your card while I was there... glad to see that he followed up with you! Will look forward to your opinion on the car.

Yeah, I'd like to stop by while the car's in your shop.

Boy Cuda, you do have the disease don't you????

Sir Andy? His car was originally a 1.7 - 4. He has a real 6 shell.

^^^ Nah, SoCalAndy.

Oh. Sorry- I thought you were speaking of Sir Andy's car. I know he has a Six shell in addition to the 3.6 car. Sorry for the confusion. Carry on.

Yeah, I agree, one of those two should change their name. Too much confusion.

Not to mention "a federal crime"...

--DD

Not to go off topic, but well, here I go.
Is there any sort of legal guideline or consensus as to how much of car B can be welded on to car A (presuming one legally owns both) before one can not refer to the finished product as car A?

And not to go off topic on your thread hi-jack, but I want to keep my car as a "numbers matching" car. But the tranny case broke. The good Dr Evil put my original tranny guts into a different tranny case. So my 914 has the original engine and tranny guts but a different differential and tranny case. So can I cut out the "numbers" from the old original tranny case, and 'glue' those numbers over the new-old non-original tranny case to get me a "numbers matching" 914?

A better example might be using the original third piece of a 356/912 case along with a new replacement case to keep the same engine number and calling it the original engine. It is and it isn't. Can it only be original if it has original crank and pistons and cylinders?

On topic, if this car which looks to me like nothing more than a good candidate for a resto is really worth $37K then sixes really are going crazy.

No ones mentioned the wheels on that 6... porsche pattern torque thrusts $$$$

This whole thread is the reason I didn't go look at it

So what ever happened with this 914-6 ???

Did it sell???

Did Cuda buy it???

What is the consensus on it's real world value???

I looked at the car a second time a few days ago when it was in the shop to get the hood open.

Mugs looked over the car pretty well too. Overall, it looks like a fairly solid car, with a TON of smaller items that need to be addressed. No one single item is all that bad, but there is quite an accumulation of small stuff.

Still considering it. Was watching the car when it was on Ebay... it stalled at 24K and didn't sell.