I have a question and would like a "wide" view point from this forum on Thermostat/Flaps on a 914

Mine are missing - and I've rcvd one comment saying that they are NOT really necessary.

Can I get some inputs on this topic - while doing some work on my car (I'm a newbie) yesterday - I noticed that the thermostat, thermostat housing, and thermostat cable are missing - only have the pulley.

In addition - where the EFFIN are these flaps? Cause if they are not needed and they are in place - they could be a problem, right?

thanks

You must have the flap over the oil cooler.

Here is a the bits.

I vote yes, you need the flaps. They help the engine to warm up faster which is a important thing. A engine has the most wear when its is cold and slowly warming up so you want it to reach operating temp as soon as possible. Doesn't matter if you are in AZ or WI. Also the flaps direct the air to and around the oil cooler.


Geoff

QUOTE

In addition - where the EFFIN are these flaps?

They are at the top of the fan housing where it joins the engine sheetmetal. If they are still there you should be able to see the metal rod that connects the flaps. The cable connects to a bracket on this rod, which is spring loaded and defaults to the engine warm position. I agree, you need the flaps.

In Miami, you may be able to get away with not using the thermostat, but I would run one. As Type 4 noted, you still need the flap over the oil cooler (#7 in picture.) Whoever told you they aren't necessary honestly doesn't know how they function. If they are in there and the thermostat isn't hooked up, it is not likely they are a problem. They were designed to be fail-safe. IOW, they retract to full-cooling position (read below.)

The flaps and thermostat regulate how much cooling air reaches the cylinders and heads. A spring on the rod between the two sides pulls them open (full cooling) by default. When the engine is cold, the thermostat pulls against the spring, and moves the flaps to a position where they block the cooling air from going over the cylinders and heads. As the engine warms up, the thermostat lengthens, opens the flaps and allows air by. Make sure you hook up the thermostat so it pulls against the spring when cold or it won't do anything.

The flap on the 1 & 2 (driver's) side only functions as above. The flap on the 3 & 4 (pass.) side has another function in addition: It guides the air over the oil cooler. That's why it's necessary. Without it, the air has to make an unassisted U-turn to go over the cooler. Since air follows the path of least resistance, it is unlikely much will go that way. Make sure it is hooked up correctly also. The 1 & 2 side flap is solidly attached to the rod that connects the two sides. However, as the diagram shows, the 3 & 4 flap is connected by a linkage. It is possible to hook it up so it works opposite to the other flap. If you do that, you will block the air from one side when the other is getting full cooling. When the thermostat opens, they will switch. Keep driving like that and the blocked-off side will burn up.

Here are a couple of pics with them installed on the fan housing. I don't know if anyone said it, but in the default position the one over the oil cooler is down.

1.

2.

I too am interested in this topic - the car I purchased does not have a thermostat installed. I did a quick check of pelican when I got the car and they are listed as NLA.. Where are the options to get a new one?
I had better go check the flaps. This make it look like one is mounted 90 degrees off from the other..?

QUOTE (martinef1963 @ Mar 6 2005, 05:58 AM)

I have a question and would like a "wide" view point from this forum on Thermostat/Flaps on a 914

you NEED the flaps but you dont need the thermostat !!!

the flaps control how the cooling air is channeled over your cylinders and over the oil-cooler.
if the flaps are removed your oil-cooler will not get any air-flow !!!

but you can savely remove the thermostat and cable.
what that does is, it'll *park* the flaps in full cooling position (max. air to the coil-cooler and cylinders)
if you do this, it'll take longer for the engine to warm up but you'll always get max. cooling ...

Andy

PS: do *not* remove the pulley wheel !!! the bolt that holds the wheel goes through and inside the case. if you remove the pulley wheel, you'll have a *major* oil leak ...

Something no body pointed out, was that the flaps go to default ****IF the spring is there, is not brokem, and has not lost tension---if the last two are at fault this mans ride is in constant overheat mode---

I must disagree on the flaps thing--his motor is bone stock d-jet that might be making 60-70 hp by now--there is no telling the crud layer that has built up on his fins and in the cooler itself--

After I removed my tin and cleaned all the crud from the engine fins and externals--and then bolted everything back up--sans flaps--I had no change in cooling airflow over the cooler or engine, except for the air was now constant and unencumbered--this was with me under it while it was idling before and after and getting blasted in the face with the airflow--my oil temps never exceed 230 degrees while idling at a stop light for the eternity that it is down here--and always dropped to about 205 when underway--but then again--this was a almost bone stock 1.7 also--not a heavily breathed on big motor.

But I do agree--you need the most cooling you can get down here in Miami!!!

I agree with Andy to a point. If you leave the flaps out all-together your oil cooler will have less air flow. Wether this is a bad thing or not depends on how hot your engine runs already. Stock 1.7s might not have an issue, a 2.0 with bumped compression probably would. Leave the flaps in and the thermostat off in a warm climate.

Okay - now I see the darn flaps - mine are constantly closed - against the tin - why would I know that cause I can reach around my tin and there are no open slots.

I tried to open them by putting some pressure on the horizontal bar, at the end where the wire would run down and I can't move them.

My next question is - can I run the car for a couple of weeks w/ out damaging anything?

I need to locate a termostat/termostat housing, and a wire so I can get this up to speed.

If anyone has this assembly - please PM me - I would opt to install it.

Again, guys, this is by far the best place a 914 uneducated rookie can visit for help - kudos.

I would not do it--you have been lucky so far just because the temps down here have been mild-----Wrench those puppies open and safety wire them open till you can do what you want---These motors are very costly to repair---VW logo with porsche prices--

By the way--I got what you need--I am not using mine anymore--get up with me sometime and I'll let you have em---If you come over to my place I got three motors all torn down to various stages that I can learn you on--let me know, J.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Mar 6 2005, 10:06 AM)

I don't know if anyone said it, but in the default position the one over the oil cooler is down.

yes, that (your pic. 1) is the default position for the flaps when the thermostat is removed.
the flap on the pass. side is *down*, meaning full air flow over the oil cooler and cylinders, the flap on the drivers side is *up* meaning full air flow over the cylinders.

this position (the default) will give you *max* cooling ...


i have ran 2 engines (the 1.8 and the 2.0) with the thermostat removed here in CA.
works just fine for me, even on those cold CA winter days.
i wouldn't do it if i were in canada, but down here, it works just fine ...

Andy

I forgot to mention I have a 1.9L - it has a BBK, stock CAM - if this helps the forum out.

thanks,

Speaking on cooling flaps--Andy or Mark, or anybody else in the know--do sixes have any kind of cooling control?? or are they wide open all the time??

All open all the time. At least the "older" ones.

I have the thremostat, wheel,bracket, Nut and Cable $35