I'm going for the Rich Johnson Ole Yeller look and have not been successful in getting a hold of Rich. Anyway, does anybody know what needs to be done in order to not have to pull/cut fenders? My paint is still good and would be hard to match, plus I like the look of non-pulled fenders with 16X7's tucked underneath. Also, trailing arm mods might be cheaper. Does anybody know if the trailing arm bolt hole is a solid pipe or is it just fitted at the ends? One thought I had was to shave an inch on the inside (towards the engine side) and add one inch to the other side, thus allowing the arm to stay original but yet slide inwards one inch. I'm also wondering if the side where the hubs attach can be shaved an inch and then just have the caliper mounts moved back an inch too? Not sure if I would need to shave an inch off the CV axles or not. Come on, let's discuss. I'm sure everyone's interested in fitting bigger tires back there without adding flares or pulling fenders. Thanks

Have you contacted Rich to see if he'll do it for you? That'd be the first place I would start.

The control arm is hollow, I don't know if he slimmed down the arm and shortened the hub carrier or what. But I think it would become a pretty big job. If you shorten up the hub carrier, or the inboard side where the CV bolts, you may need shorter rear axles and whatnot. I would definately score an old trailing arm for mock up instead of using yours at first!

Whoops, looksl I should read your whole post - then I would see that you already tried getting a hold of him..

the problem with 7's are they stick out one inch farther than 6's (same offset..thus they stick out farther)

so... either he runs big neg camber, or he modded the trailing arm....
maybe he narrowd the arm?
maybe he offset the arm at the pivot?

Here you, complete with pictures

Timo's trailing arm modifications

you are welcome


oh yea, the tire size is still pretty much limited to 205's...you might find a 215 or 225 that'll work, but odds are not in your favor........

Is there enough room to move the tires inward 1 inch? I don't think so. Some tires have rubbed the inner fender on my car.

The problem is that the inside isn't "just" an inner fender. It is the structure that supports the transmission crossmember. I don't think that can be moved easily.

Thanks Mueller. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Just so you know... the trailing arms on Rich's car are highly modified to allow the 16x7s to fit. They are narrowed, and a custom mount is installed for the 944 turbo calipers. I don't know exactly what was done to narrow them.. sorry.

In the article there's no mention of having to change anything on the inside of the trailing arms - the inside where the wheel bearing slides into. Isn't there something on the back that prevents the bearing from sliding in too deep? I did my 5-lug conv about 5 years ago and don't have a spare trailing arm sitting around. Another point of discussion. Would one then be able to still use the rear stock calipers but with a 15mm washer/spacer to line up with the rotor? Finally, I'm wondering if the 914 CV axles even need to be shortened or if there's enough "play" in there already. Thoughts?

Anybody have a new email for Rich Johnson? I sent one to his old AOL address but no answer yet.

i believe the "tube" can be cut, and everything moved inboard to the dimension you need....of course the brake caliper mounts need to be relocated as well, but it's not a difficult modification...hardest part is making a fixtue to hold everything together while welding....

I found the pictures of Timos fixture:

you could always just run 911R 15x7's :-) ...

I have a pic of a 914 I saw at a show in Mt. Dora, Florida that had a twin-plugged 2.2L (?) with 15X7 911R Fuchs. They fit really nicely with 205's and the fender were not at all streched or rolled.

I might be missing something, but 15 and 16 by 7" (et 23.3mm) both fit without mods.

Here's a picture w/15x7 205/50-15s and I have set up a friend's car with 16x7 and 205/45-16s.

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 14 2005, 07:12 PM)

I might be missing something, but 15 and 16 by 7" (et 23.3mm) both fit without mods. Here's a picture w/15x7 205/50-15s and I have set up a friend's car with 16x7 and 205/45-16s.

I'm betting that those rear fenders are not 100% stock, the lips have been rolled or the rear of the fender has been pulled out ever so slightly

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 14 2005, 07:23 PM)

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 14 2005, 07:12 PM) I might be missing something, but 15 and 16 by 7" (et 23.3mm) both fit without mods. Here's a picture w/15x7 205/50-15s and I have set up a friend's car with 16x7 and 205/45-16s. I'm betting that those rear fenders are not 100% stock, the lips have been rolled or the rear of the fender has been pulled out ever so slightly

Nope. They're 100% stock and I can prove it when I get home. I still have the pieces I cut out in order to weld up the GT flares.

Until then, here's the best I can do:

Interesting. I wish my 914 is like yours was then; because I know I don't have room for 15X7 or 16X7's under my fenders. I am not even sure if I can fit 195s under tem without streching them or rooling the lips.

i've seen a few 914s that people think the rear fenders are bone stock, the area with the arrow is tapered in towards the center of the car, this is where interferance happens with wider tires....this area can also be pulled out by hand to make more room for wider tires and still appear stock if you don't know how much taper to look for...

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 14 2005, 07:42 PM)

i've seen a few 914s that people think the rear fenders are bone stock, the area with the arrow is tapered in towards the center of the car, this is where interferance happens with wider tires....this area can also be pulled out by hand to make more room for wider tires and still appear stock if you don't know how much taper to look for...

Who do you think you are drawing on my car!

I've never had to pull that area out on a car that I've owned or set up, but I certainly can't speak to the entire history of each car. I have definitely heard of people having trouble running 205s, but have never experienced that difficulty myself.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you can pull the area you described out by hand, would that not be far easier and more preferable to performing a major sectioning of the control arm?

Oh, I found a really good picture for this. Mueller, can you tell from this one?

16x7 Fuchs can be mounted without body mods by using 205x45x16 tires. The tires I used were Dunlops. Can't find the pics.
CCLINFUCHSFEELER

QUOTE

Oh, I found a really good picture for this. Mueller, can you tell from this one?

...not trying to an @ss, but I'd say pulled at the rear of the fender

I know on my last 914 with 23mm offset 16x7's with 205/50s, I had to pull on the fender on both sides to get them to fit without rubbing.......sorry about molesting your car with the line and arrow...I'll try and not make a habit of that, hahahaha

I'm with the mueller camp here. I'm sure I've mentioned it in
previous threads, mainly just to keep the innocent from just
going out and buying 15x7's and going 'whoops!'

There are definitely some people who have them on there,
and maybe even some where the fenders are as from the
factory.

I can say from personal experience that my 15x6's would
not leave enough space that I would consider trying regular
15x7's (which are one inch all on the outboard side). They
are _very_ tight in there with the Kumho Victoracer 205/50.
My six was very stock, and since it is a '70, the rear fender
lip did not have the factory 'roll' as in later years. It does
now, and even now I wouldn't try it.

I run 2' neg camber, if I had the wheels on I'd take a pic.

All 914's are different, though, and also if you're running
regular street tires things may not be as wide.

QUOTE (mskala @ Mar 14 2005, 08:35 PM)

I can say from personal experience that my 15x6's would not leave enough space that I would consider trying regular 15x7's (which are one inch all on the outboard side).

The extra inch between 6" and 7" is not all on the outside. If both wheels are et-23mm, then the difference between the two wheels is .5" on each side.

You would be correct if you were talking about BACKSPACING, but offset is measured from the wheel's centerline.

If you guys would like, I can bring a 15x7" wheel in the standard -23.3mm offset, mounted with a 205/50-15 tire with me to the WCC and you guys can try it on your cars to see if it fits.

It'll be one of the wheels from the pictures I've posted on this thread.

If your car is 4-bolt, we can still try it as both 4-bolt and 5-bolt are on a 130mm bolt circle, but you won't be able to roll your car with only one lug bolt installed.

Let me know.

Porsche Wheel Dimension Page

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 14 2005, 10:57 PM)

If your car is 4-bolt, we can still try it as both 4-bolt and 5-bolt are on a 130mm bolt circle, but you won't be able to roll your car with only one lug bolt installed.

Also I don't think you could lower the car down unless you have the jack
in some very interesting place. I don't think it would show much with the
suspension drooped and one bolt in.

QUOTE (mskala @ Mar 15 2005, 10:06 AM)

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 14 2005, 10:57 PM) If your car is 4-bolt, we can still try it as both 4-bolt and 5-bolt are on a 130mm bolt circle, but you won't be able to roll your car with only one lug bolt installed. Also I don't think you could lower the car down unless you have the jack in some very interesting place. I don't think it would show much with the suspension drooped and one bolt in.

There's a centering ring on the rotor (see pic). If you place the bolt at the top, you can safely lower the car with one bolt in place because the centering ring serves to index the wheel.

Like I said, you won't be able to roll the car, but you would be able to see if the configuration fits your car.

Obviously, it's up to the individual, but I'll bring a wheel for anyone who would like to know how it fits their car.

Cool, I didn't think about those parts lining up, not every having
a 4 and a 6 at the same time.

Where did you score the rear centering ring? Good idea..