Hi guys,

It is correct to have the 46's on the 6 gt motor, just as a side note, on the rally and hillclimb GT's they ran S spec motors with 40 carbs.

Now I know the debate rages on the authenticity thing, but the 400 kits that the factory sold to only 914-6 owners and kept no record of Vin numbers.
So............from vintage racing's point of view you can drive something fairly authentic without spending 125-150 thousand dollars. The factory also built beautiful 471 models in 71 that were not for racing and came with the body etc but a standard 2 liter. this to commemorate the wins of the GT's in different venues.

The main thing here is to be passionate about your hobby and car, keep looking for that dream car but enjoy it anyway you can until then.

yup , those are pressure fed tensioners, have put them on several racing engines including an 8000 rpm 3.3 liter, with no failures. They actually have been very reliable for me.

best regards

Carl

Hey, anybody have a list of Emulsion tubes for the 40 ida 3c in order of rich to lean or something like that?????

QUOTE (9146gtracer @ Mar 23 2005, 08:30 AM)

The main thing here is to be passionate about your hobby and car, keep looking for that dream car but enjoy it anyway you can until then.

Well said Carl. An anal purest like myself misses out on a lot of fun. I've been into Porsches for about 40 years and unfortunately my mentor was an anal purest and it just stuck to me. I respect and love all 914's (a few exceptions). I just get a little perturbed when I hear and see the words "It's Real" and "It's Original" when in fact "It's A Replica".

QUOTE (9146gtracer @ Mar 23 2005, 08:30 AM)

Now I know the debate rages on the authenticity thing, but the 400 kits that the factory sold to only 914-6 owners and kept no record of Vin numbers.

There are too few factory GT's or M471's to satisfy everyone. Not all of the factory cars came fully equipped originally. They were built for specific uses, and got what was needed for that purpose.

Many of the famous cars were dealer built cars as well. So the pedigree of the car counts for much of the added value. The 400 kits were made available for customers to make their own, and a lot did. However, I fail to see 400 GT's out there, perhaps 100? So where did all the other parts go?

In any event, value is in the mind of the purchaser. Real or replica doesn't mean much to me. I'd love to build my own replica, and am working towards that end. The apparent lack of original parts means using replica parts in many cases also. As long as the finished car performs similar to the original, then that is good.

QUOTE (smg914 @ Mar 23 2005, 11:46 AM)

...An anal purest like myself... see the words "It's Real" and "It's Original" when in fact "It's A Replica".

Note Smileys!!!

that'd be "purist"

in this case, if i followed the history presented in this thread, it's actually a "reproduction."

the difference between a 'replica' and a 'reproduction' - at least in museum-speak:

a piece is a reproduction if one or more of the same people who made the original participates in the process. e.g. - the copy of the "Spirit of St Louis" in the San Diego Aerospace Museum is a reproduction - both the current version, and the one it replaced following the fire there, were done by members of the Ryan Aeronautical staff that built the original Lindburgh aircraft.

the car in question here (if i followed it right, it got a little confusing there for a while) was built up in Werk I by the factory guys. yes? someone correct me if i got that wrong...

i find it interesting that all that is claimed for the car is that it is a M471; we have all seen cars claiming to be "factory GT's" with far less provenance ...

well it is an original 6, the fender flares had a couple of factory stickers on them that I peeled off and kept, yes the vin is not a factory built car but I know of 2 factory Gt's that were basically revived by using the only"original" thing on them left was the vin on the winshield.
I almost purshased a GT in Richfield utah, owned by this older couple, pushased in beverly hills in the 70's, it had the correct vin on the winshield but the plate with the vin on the right front fender was blank. It was a factory built car , that was a hillclimb car, crashed and had a front clip from a 72 done in Germany with a blank clip. the front hood had the headlight openings welded closed and the headlights were placed in the front bumper, a pair of round ones on each side. the front clip did not have the headlight buckets in it. the engine was not chassis matching, and a single plug motor, it did not have the fiberglass hood or trunk or bumpers, stock interior. It did have the GT cooling system with the thermostat. After being in contact with the lady for 4 years and making an offer of 25k for it, she sold it to some friends in Bakersfield CA. With all its shortcomings I still wanted to restore the car, and still would if it is ever for sale again, would I find the "correct" parts or very good reproductions???? would it be an original? or a restored VIN#?
It would have been a great project. Then again maybe I just love 914-6s with steel fender flares

by the way this is a very cool discussion,

And I agree that the green car is only a 914-6 with 471 options.

Hey Brant you should put the vintage racing schedule up so some of the 914 guys can come out and join us.

This is a great discussion. And on the reproduction as opposed to replica, I'd have to agree on that one too. Thanks for clarifying that. And the fact that some so called original 914-6 GT's (ie; Brumos #59 914-6 GT) that were totally rebuilt multiple times, makes you wonder if there is anything from the original car remaining other then the VIN. Yet few would deny the authenticity of this car. The factory GT hill climb car sounds like a wonderful find and well worth restoring. I would love to see the racing history of this car. Having the correct VIN on the windshield frame and a good race history from that period makes this car very special and worth every penny. I hope you can get it someday.

here's another car that fits to this discussion

left factory as a standard 914-6, got converted in the mid '70ies:
906 engine, front oil cooler, steel flares, roll cage, various stiffenings, 100 L tank, ...

Who would have thought that 30-35 years later we'd be trying to find these used race cars. At the time they were cheap and exspendable and there was no regard to keeping them "original". Patch them up and get them on the track. Now its "do the numbers match?, are the stickers on the inside of the fenders?, Is the factory mechanic's DNA on the engine tin?

If you look at the 917 history website, some of those cars were renumbered and some lost completely. I'm sure if we were into Cobra Mustangs or GT40s or BRE 510s it would be the same story.

Fun to discuss...

Paul

Sounds like all are in agreement we should try and keep track and rescue whatever we can , cars, parts, history, etc.
I have been trying, and having people keep their eyes open here and in Europe is great..........
I can tell you one thing, the factory burried these cars so as not to make the 911 look bad on the track.............35 years later...........if you compare similarly powered vehicles we still are making them look bad........

Great stuff , In reguards to the 400 kits , the parts got so randomly issued , and for replacement parts or dealer purchased for customer , that ,who knows how many full kits were actually sold complete.

The GT flairs I put on my car actually had the "signature " on the right front flair. no primer bare metal with same sig. that is on trunk lids. did someone actually tally all the inventory ?

Does this mean I have a part of the offical 400 homolagated kits ? Who knows, Kinda neat though.

QUOTE (9146gtracer @ Mar 23 2005, 10:36 AM)

by the way this is a very cool discussion, And I agree that the green car is only a 914-6 with 471 options. Hey Brant you should put the vintage racing schedule up so some of the 914 guys can come out and join us.

good idea Carl about the schedule.
come out and see Carl's car in action, Ben.
schedule is:

-April 23/24 at La Junta
-June 4/5 Pueblo Trans Am invitational
-July 16/17 Second Creek
-August 6/7 Second Creek counter clockwise
-August 12/13/14 Denver (C.A.R.T.) Grand Prix, although it is not clear yet if vintage will have a run group like the last couple of years, and if they do have one it is a space limited group without all cars.
-September 10/11 La Junta
-October 1/2 Pueblo Enduro

Additionally I think Carl may run in the nostalgia races this year and I'm assuming the club race also.

Carl,
I want to ask you a question.
regarding the green car.
do you have any idea when the flares/oil cooler/hoods/thermostat were applied?
I got the impression they had been installed in 70 or 71?

brant

Hi Brant,

I purshased the car in 99 from a OB/GYN in LA,
he kept telling me it was a real GT, and I knew from the vin that it was a 6 with some of the options. There was no record of when the pieces were placed. The only evidence are stickers here and there, engine matches numbers, etc. I wish there was any history with it, but it did not...........but I always look and ask, maybe the next car will...........now what are you doing on the computer go finish your car so we can go racing

Touche' !! Carl!!
Sorry Brant, but it looks to o'f worked.
The GT stuff is starting to fasinate me! WOW
Carl,a nice way to remind the 911 crowd why the 914 was really removed!!!! Again.