Okay. So I'm still trying to install this *%$#^&)(@)_!&$%)&@#*%$#& Crane XR700.

I got it all installed yesterday and tried to turn the engine over, but it didn't work. The starter is working okay, but the engine wasn't catching. Every now and then, though, it sounded like it was trying to, but just couldn't. It would make a quick spitting noise. That's the only way I can explain it. Like it was trying to catch, but couldn't.
I conculted my mechanic friend upstairs, and we both decided it was probably timing. So here's the thing: I had pulled out my distributor to ease the installation of the device. I know I turned the rotor shaft a few times. When I tried to put the dizzy back in, it wouldn't go in with the rotor turned towards the mark on the dizzy. The rotor is turned a 1/4 turn away (clockwise) from the #1 cyl mark when the two pegs slot into place when I re-install the diz.
WTF am I doing wrong? I know there's something.......... Should I jack up one side of the car and turn a drive wheel until it lines up?
On top of that, I don't think the LED is lighting up at all. I tried aligning the slots to the light, but the f'ing light never lit up. Tried having a roommate crank the engine while I watched the diz- no light. ?????!!!!!??????!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I've got about 9 hours in this damn thing. The three nicest days of my spring break have been wasted trying to install this "60 minute easy installation" POS, when I could have been zooming around with my top off. I'm damn tempted to go back to points, but I figure it'll be just as much a PITA to go back to that as it would to continue this install. I figure I'm about 90% done. The actual install of the unit itself is all done, now I just have to get it to interface with my car.

Any help would be MUCHO appreciated!

Thanks,
Cole

Did you remove the drive gear under the diz? Or pull it partway out?

QUOTE (wrpspddrvr @ Mar 22 2005, 09:19 AM)

I tried to put the dizzy back in, it wouldn't go in with the rotor turned towards the mark on the dizzy. On top of that, I don't think the LED is lighting up at all.

the alignment of the rotor shaft isn't significant. put the body in the way it's supposed to go. the drive shaft (for the distributor) has an OFFSET slot. (have a look at it with a good flashlight.) just make sure the offset parts align right.

it sounds to me as if you had it installed 180 out.

but yes, you WILL need to make a significant timing adjustment because the slot in the shutter wheel is not the same place the points opened before.

the LED is an INFRARED LED. it DOES NOT light up in the visible part of the spectrum; you'll never see it light up.

I think you should re check power and ground with a meter. It is still possible to get the DIZZY rotor in 180 out.
I would now verify that you got the motor TDC #1 and the dizzy rotor lined up. then re-check you plug wires for correct order.

Okay, so I re-did it and got some spark, so I know the XR700 is working, but it's not actually starting. Timing's WAY off.
I jacked up one side of the car and spun the wheel until the rotor pointed at the mark.

So I need to get the engine at #1 TDC. Do I do this with the dizzy in or out?

"the alignment of the rotor shaft isn't significant. put the body in the way it's supposed to go. the drive shaft (for the distributor) has an OFFSET slot. (have a look at it with a good flashlight.) just make sure the offset parts align right.

it sounds to me as if you had it installed 180 out."

I don't understand this. Does this mean I should have the brass piece (contact thingy) on the rotor facing AWAY from the mark?


Also, if the LED is infrared, how do I know when the shutter is aligned properly?

Thanks for helping me with this guys! I was going freaking .

Y'all rock!

Cole

The dizzy doesn't give a crap which way it's pointed as long as the rotor points to the appropriate pole on the cap.

Pull the number one spark plug.....stick your finger in the hole.....have someone rotate the engine in the correct direction....when you feel compression on your finger, you are on the compression stroke.......bring the number one piston to TDC mark on the blower....now rotate the dizzy (in the correct direction) until one of the shutter slots just begins to line up with the led......place the cap over the dizzy and see which pole lines up with the rotor....that is number one spark plug lead......place the rest of the HT cables in sequence from there....the motor will fire if you have spark and gas.

The #1 timing mark is only applicable in 100% stock and correct situations. I'll bet the drive gear is in a little wrong (no bigggie) and with the crane you've definitely violated the 100% stock rule. Soooo, ignore that little mark.

Find TDC for #1. Make sure that the rotor is pointing towards the #1 spark plug wire on the cap.

Oooooor, the redneck way. Have a friend try and start the car while you slowly turn the distributor body. Eventually you'll get it close.

For a sure fire approach for finding TDC on #1, pop off the valve cover over #1 and turn the engine till both intake and exhaust are loose (there is a hole at the bottom of the tranny where the flywheel is, there is a machined line on the flywheel when you hit #1 - one will be your firing stroke and one spin around will be your exhaust. to find the firing stroke, both valves will be loose. Works everytime and no guesswork involved. Thanks to the Cap'n for that approach, many years ago.

QUOTE (McMark @ Mar 22 2005, 09:18 AM)

Oooooor, the redneck way. Have a friend try and start the car while you slowly turn the distributor body. Eventually you'll get it close.

Yep, sometimes that works out if you get really lost.

There is a TDC (Top Dead Center) mark on the big fan pulley. Find it, your Haynes manual should detail this with a picture. Your big key here is finding #1 TDC and setting the timing from there.

QUOTE (wrpspddrvr @ Mar 22 2005, 09:55 AM)

So I need to get the engine at #1 TDC. Do I do this with the dizzy in or out?

doesn't matter. but there is a picture of how the slot in the drive shaft is "supposed to be" aligned in the Haynes. comparing that with the dizzy out could give you an idea of *exactly* what it is you're dealing with (the back-to-basics approach...)

QUOTE

I don't understand this. Does this mean I should have the brass piece (contact thingy) on the rotor facing AWAY from the mark?

no -- it means you shouldn't, but i think you do, by accident. the notch on the dizzy body, the notch in the dizzy shaft (which locates the rotor) and the business end of the rotor "should" all align at TDC #1.

QUOTE

Also, if the LED is infrared, how do I know when the shutter is aligned properly?

the Crane HI-6 spark box has a red LED that flickers with the shutter wheel (immediate visual indication that the trigger is working) and could theoretically be used for static timing. it's never worked for me, tho. anyway - the XR-700 is a points replacement, which means it works the same way - when the shutter wheel blocks the light path, the trigger wire is at +12VDC. when the window is open, the circuit opens. i just use a VOM to see when the "poionts open" for static timing.

but SLITS is correct -- you eyeball the shutter wheel to the center of the block, and it will be close enough for the engine to start. then use a timing light for fine adjustment.

I'll triple the Mark's comment. I assume whenever installing these things the timing will be completely random, so turn it, crank it, turn it, crank it, until it fires up. Only turn it a little bit (about 5 degrees) each time. The car will start with the timing WAY advanced (like 30 degrees BTDC), but won't start if it's retarded a great deal (about 5d ATDC).

If you get really stuck, stop. Crank the engine around until it's absolutely on TDC for cylinder 1 (pull a valve cover to check). Make sure the rotor is pointing at the correct post for cylinder 1 when installed. If not, then move the plug wire on the dizzy cap until it IS pointing at the correct post, then put the rest of the plug wires in with their firing order (1 4 3 2, clockwise around the distributor). The Crane has an LED on the box that lights up when the shutter slot lines up with the sensor, so turn the dizzy body until that light comes on. You SHOULD now have set timing to TDC, and the car should start, but it will idle very low. If it doesn't start now advance the timing a tad and try again.

James, he's got the Crane points replacement, not the whole box.

QUOTE (McMark @ Mar 22 2005, 11:35 AM)

James, he's got the Crane points replacement, not the whole box.

Unless Crane/Allison makes something new, he has to have the trigger box for it to work. The optical sensor only sends a signal to the "box" which triggers the coil.

QUOTE (McMark @ Mar 22 2005, 10:35 AM)

James, he's got the Crane points replacement, not the whole box.

The Crane XR700 I installed a couple of years ago had the LED on the box, too. Not just the HI-6 version. Perhaps this was only added relatively recently. It's a big help in static timing the thing.

The first 15 or so I installed didn't have the led indicator.............My newer one did....got so enthralled watching it flash as I rotated the engine, I walked back in the house and got my patent leather shoes and put on the BeeGee's.............DISCO..............

If you don't have a box with an LED... the next step is to go get a chopstick...

-Rusty

QUOTE (Lawrence @ Mar 22 2005, 03:19 PM)

If you don't have a box with an LED... the next step is to go get a chopstick... -Rusty

Put your chopstick away man! can't you see we have a problem here!?!

Cole if you havent got it by this weekend give me a call. I would be up for a trip to Blacksburg.