for my copper car doing the Challenge I might as well do the 2056 since it needs a refresh and the mechanic suggested just doing the whole thing, it has 150k miles on original build. only have small oil drip, but I had to re-shim the shaft when I did the RMS and clutch last year, so this should be renewed and I am burning thru a lot of oil just ask the guys driving behind me at Octeenerfest!
who to use and what to get for parts - my builder will be George at Bob Woodman's here in beaufort. Both have rebuild many 911 /6 and many 356 motors , a few 914's as well.
what to do to heads?
which P&C's? etc etc.
he wants to split case and send to align bore etc,
so new cam? Raby 9550 with d-jet??
budget build but not cheap. I want it to be last time its done as long as I own it.
Phil
Full Version: looking for advice for 2056 build
QUOTE(Philip W. @ Mar 3 2016, 08:59 AM) 
for my copper car doing the Challenge I might as well do the 2056 since it needs a refresh and the mechanic suggested just doing the whole thing, it has 150k miles on original build. only have small oil drip, but I had to re-shim the shaft when I did the RMS and clutch last year, so this should be renewed and I am burning thru a lot of oil just ask the guys driving behind me at Octeenerfest!
who to use and what to get for parts - my builder will be George at Bob Woodman's here in beaufort. Both have rebuild many 911 /6 and many 356 motors , a few 914's as well.
what to do to heads?
which P&C's? etc etc.
he wants to split case and send to align bore etc,
so new cam? Raby 9550 with d-jet??
budget build but not cheap. I want it to be last time its done as long as I own it.
Phil
You will get better responses in the garage versus the classifieds.
oops! 
thought I was, that's what I get for doing it on my phone!
maybe admin will move this over for me, thanks.
thought I was, that's what I get for doing it on my phone! maybe admin will move this over for me, thanks.
This should get you started:
* Revised 3/4/16
Phil,
To all that read this: please feel free to correct or comment anything I have written you feel is incorrect.
I'm no expert on building these type 4 engines, but I have done plenty of research during the past year on my 2316ccbuild. Take what I give you with a grain of salt and it may help you out. I'll try to post some helpful links at the end of this saga. My first recommendation is do plenty of research before you buy/do anything or you'll most likely pay for it in some way or another later on.
Just a simple google search of "line bore Porsche 914" will tell you it may not be the route you want to pursue. You should check the fit of the crank and cam bearings with the block once you have torn it apart to see if the bearings wiggle or fall out when installed. They should snap into place and stay fairly snug. Otherwise, it may be easier to find another case to build your engine. All cases are created equally and there are plenty of cases still out there, you just have to look (type 4 case). You may also want to test mate your case empty by torqueing down the case bolts (6bolts) and feeling how the crank bearing surfaces meet together. You can use your fingernail on the bearing mount surface (on block) to check and see which side of the case sticks up. You may have to hit the case with a rubber mallet to make these line up perfectly. Take note of where you hit and repeat this process when final assembling the engine.
Your final check will be how much force it takes to turn the crank once it is assembled. Look up the max torque that it should take to turn the crank when the two halves are assembled and make sure your crank turns at less or equal this torque.
You will also have to clearance your cam shaft thrust bearing when you install new ones. Depending on how much power you want you may need to modify a second thrust bearing (2nd set of cam bearings required) to fit your case (or vice versa). OR you can go with straight cut cam gears which will remove the need for a second thrust bearing on a high HP engine.
You will also need to determine if you will be running a full flow oil pump and clearance the pump to the cam shaft gear before assembling the engine. I used straight cut cam gears from scat, but I had to grind the heads down on cam gear bolts to get the proper clearance to the 30mm pump. If you go with a full flow pump I suggest making sure you get one that already has the exit hole plugged and sealed.
I can't emphasize enough to do your research before your build. There are plenty of forums out there where Jake Raby and other knowledgeable resources have posted very helpful info for building an engine.
The camshaft is the personality of the engine. It's really up to what kind of engine you want to build that determines what cam you want. Other factors you would need to consider would be clearance to the connecting rods this is normally determined by the lift built into the cam, the lift the heads are rated to, and base circle diameter. I used a type 4 C-45 cam from Scat, but I had to pay a little extra $ for a reduced base circle so that I could clear the rods. Verify the lift on the cam to make sure its matches what you wanted to buy.
You also may want to consider what compression ratio you want (power output & side effect heat.) You'll get more power with a larger ratio, but you'll subsequently increase your heat. I think the stock ratio is around 8:1 ish, but I bumped this up to 10:1 on my engine to be in the output range I desired. This 10:1 ratio on my engine required Blanchard ground shims from Rimco to set the correct deck height. I also had to manufacture push rod tube washers to put on the case side of my push rods tubes to be able fit stock tubes with the engine width. (Don't know if this is an issue with the 2056cc) I believe Tangerine racing makes cut to length tubes but at a cost. Don’t get these confused with the type 1 push rod tube that some variations have been made to be extendable for wide engines. Type 1 and Type 4 push rod tubes are different.
Invest in a Haynes manual if you don't have one and be sure to follow the torque specified from this manual to keep things together and to keep things from breaking. Speaking of torque and money, if you want power go with the LE180 or LE200 heads from Len Hoffman through the type 4 store. There's also a site HAM with his machining services. This will set you back a little $, but very good quality. I purchased the LE200 with dual springs on a 44mm intake 38mm exhaust valve. I would call Len and chat on the phone about availability since I believe these heads are produced in a limited quantity each year. It could delay your time frame in which you are trying to build your engine. You can also look up the flow numbers for these heads on Jake's aircooled site.
Find some 8mm swivel head rockers to replace to 10mm stock rockers if that's what you currently have. (only buy Porsche brand swivel adjustors). Grind down the rocker to allow the swivel foot adjustor to fit. Do this slowly as to not heat up the rocker too much. Clean the rockers afterwards to make sure the oil galleys are clear for oil to flow. Be sure to grind the side of the rocker that faces the valve and verify that the swivel foot has plenty of clearance after assembled at all lift heights.
Measure and cut your push rod to make max lift possible. An adjustable push rod with similar ends and shape to your rods you plan on using is necessary. Use a dial indicator to measure your lift. Once you have max lift achieved extend the valve out to ½ this lift to confirm that the swivel foot adjustor is on the center of the valve stem. If it is not on the center you may have to add shims behind the rocker mounts to achieve less wear on your rockers and adjustors.
Once you have your engine put together invest in a Dakotadigital head temp thermocouple. It's about $150 with shipping but well worth it to protect your investment. Place the thermal couple under #3 spark plug and I would recommend setting the warning temp around 370F ish. There is more information that Jake posted on head temps and the meaning of these temps and operation levels online.
Be sure to save some money for a good exhaust system if you are not going stock. A good exhaust from tangerine will set you back, but again very good quality with all components that are needed included.
Finally work out what kind of intake you will use to support your engine. The limiting factors on my engine I have found is the plenum size and the runner ID. The runner length and diameter will determine where your power band sits for the engine. For a 2056 I’m guessing you can go with the 2.0L intake plenum and runners (which are somewhere around 2mm larger than the 1.7 & 1.8 runners), but for the 2316 I have to increase the runner size to support the flow of the heads. Unfortunately the 2.0 plenum has the worst flow characteristics out of all of the plenum’s but it has the largest volume. (Again check online for more info. There is a good article about the differences in all of these intakes). Technically your plenum volume should equal your total engine displacement. I would stick with the 45mm throttle body on the 2.0L to promote the proper flow velocity for the engine. With a bigger engine you could up the TB size but this would slow your intake velocity.
The D-Jet is the best stock system for the 914, but if you were willing to invest in a EMS system there’s plenty of info on the net. Also I believe Jake has built plenty of engines on carbs alone. If you go this route, you will have to determine what size carb will support the flow to the heads. I would suggest using dual carbs not the single over the middle carb. Not saying theres anything wrong with the single carb but you will get better HP with dual carbs.
I believe SDS is a good choice but there is a lot of info posted about a KitCarlson system Jake worked with around 2003-2005 that you could research to better understand what you are putting into your engine. Unfortunately, the kitcarlson is not an off the shelf kit such as the SDS due to the passing of Mr. Carlson’s father at the time of the development boom amongst other things.
As for what to keep from your engine:
Intake Plenum & runners provided their 2.0L
Shims behind the crank seal on the flywheel side (you will need these to set your endplay of your crank)
Aluminum camshaft cap. (You can see this from the outside of the case with it assembled)
Oil pressure sensor
Oil temp sensor
Windage tray and its red U shape seals (4seals) you will need to reuse this.
Oil drain plug, Oil pump pick up tube, and mesh filter net (lower end of block)
Crank bearing locator pins (5 pins maybe I don’t recall) {careful with these pins they can fall out when disassembly the bearing then you spend a long time finding where they rolled.}
Cylinder and case studs, washers, and nuts
Of course your engine tin and your cooling fan.
The fan pulley hub that mounts on the crank shaft
The engine oil galley relief plugs, springs, and caps (2 locations, 2pcs each)
Alternator and cooling fan housing
The accordion shaped thermostat with mount and the cooling flaps inside of the engine tin.
Distributor gear from below distributor and on the crank
Cam gear from the crank and old cam
I might have missed a thing or two, but that’s just about it.
Other key points:
*Drill and tap and plug the engine oil galley holes. (or have a shop do it for you.) Do not over torque these plugs you will crack your case and will have to start over with a new case… (First-hand experience)
* Upgrade your wrist pins to the 22mm diameter wrist pins (less weight on the rods = more power). You will also need the pistons and connecting rods that go with these rods. (DRD or TYPE4STORE KIT)
*make sure your retaining clips on your wrist pin/piston are 100% set in the groove in the piston. (some people even take consideration of which way the bevel on the retaining clip faces)
*Use lots of oil when assembling parts
*Don’t forget to lube the cam lobed and lifters
*Don't forget to install the lower sheet metal above the pushrod tubes before you put the push rod tubes in.
*replace all of the seals (pelican, scat, automobile Atlanta all have seal kits I believe)
*carefully note which piston ring goes where when unpacking your piston rings.
*Don’t take your cooling fan apart unless you intend on balancing it. Or you can mark it before you remove the bolts and be sure you assemble it back together the same way.
*Dynamically balance all spinning objects.
*Statically balance all moving components (pistons, connecting rods ect)
*A good supplier of engine kits is DRD racing that have kits with many engine components, The type 4 store also has these kits.
*Verify the size, weight, roundness, of all moving components.
*Be careful not to lose the cooling impeller hub key that’s inside the old crank shaft. You will need to remove this key to switch cam and distributor gears from the old to new crank
*Line up the proper tooth on the cam and crank gear
*Look up how to install the distributor correctly. This is a must for a good running engine.
*Incrementally torque the 8 bolts on your heads in a crisscross pattern in around 7.5lb intervals till the full torque is reached.
*Remove your dual springs and replace with single springs for your cam and crank break in before installing the heads. Otherwise risk wiping out your cam.
*add oil when before you crank it over.
* Purge your fuel lines before connecting them to the injectors/carb.
*Break in your engine at around 2000-2500RPM for the first 20 min with a high Zink additive oil when you first run your engine. This sets your cam and crank bearings properly. Change your oil following the first 20 min start up and break in your piston rings over a series of different RPM and load ranges for the next 500 miles (I believe).
*Expect to spend twice the amount or more that you originally intended.
*Treat your wife to multiple nice dinners to make up for the time you will be in the garage or on the phone/net.
Note this is all information I do not claim my own. It has been gathered from the following sites as well as some sites that may have been forgotten. Thanks for reading.
http://www.ephotomotion.com/914engine/index01.html
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...l/106-jake-raby
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...83920&st=20
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102429
http://www.914world.com/specs/JakeRabyHeadTemps.php
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...30230&st=60
http://www.pelicanparts.com/
http://www.autoatlanta.com/
http://type4store.com/
http://www.tangerineracing.com/
http://www.rimcovw.com/
http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto...43&start=15
https://www.drdracingheads.com/
http://www.scatvw.com/master/type_iv/
* Revised 3/4/16
Phil,
To all that read this: please feel free to correct or comment anything I have written you feel is incorrect.
I'm no expert on building these type 4 engines, but I have done plenty of research during the past year on my 2316ccbuild. Take what I give you with a grain of salt and it may help you out. I'll try to post some helpful links at the end of this saga. My first recommendation is do plenty of research before you buy/do anything or you'll most likely pay for it in some way or another later on.
Just a simple google search of "line bore Porsche 914" will tell you it may not be the route you want to pursue. You should check the fit of the crank and cam bearings with the block once you have torn it apart to see if the bearings wiggle or fall out when installed. They should snap into place and stay fairly snug. Otherwise, it may be easier to find another case to build your engine. All cases are created equally and there are plenty of cases still out there, you just have to look (type 4 case). You may also want to test mate your case empty by torqueing down the case bolts (6bolts) and feeling how the crank bearing surfaces meet together. You can use your fingernail on the bearing mount surface (on block) to check and see which side of the case sticks up. You may have to hit the case with a rubber mallet to make these line up perfectly. Take note of where you hit and repeat this process when final assembling the engine.
Your final check will be how much force it takes to turn the crank once it is assembled. Look up the max torque that it should take to turn the crank when the two halves are assembled and make sure your crank turns at less or equal this torque.
You will also have to clearance your cam shaft thrust bearing when you install new ones. Depending on how much power you want you may need to modify a second thrust bearing (2nd set of cam bearings required) to fit your case (or vice versa). OR you can go with straight cut cam gears which will remove the need for a second thrust bearing on a high HP engine.
You will also need to determine if you will be running a full flow oil pump and clearance the pump to the cam shaft gear before assembling the engine. I used straight cut cam gears from scat, but I had to grind the heads down on cam gear bolts to get the proper clearance to the 30mm pump. If you go with a full flow pump I suggest making sure you get one that already has the exit hole plugged and sealed.
I can't emphasize enough to do your research before your build. There are plenty of forums out there where Jake Raby and other knowledgeable resources have posted very helpful info for building an engine.
The camshaft is the personality of the engine. It's really up to what kind of engine you want to build that determines what cam you want. Other factors you would need to consider would be clearance to the connecting rods this is normally determined by the lift built into the cam, the lift the heads are rated to, and base circle diameter. I used a type 4 C-45 cam from Scat, but I had to pay a little extra $ for a reduced base circle so that I could clear the rods. Verify the lift on the cam to make sure its matches what you wanted to buy.
You also may want to consider what compression ratio you want (power output & side effect heat.) You'll get more power with a larger ratio, but you'll subsequently increase your heat. I think the stock ratio is around 8:1 ish, but I bumped this up to 10:1 on my engine to be in the output range I desired. This 10:1 ratio on my engine required Blanchard ground shims from Rimco to set the correct deck height. I also had to manufacture push rod tube washers to put on the case side of my push rods tubes to be able fit stock tubes with the engine width. (Don't know if this is an issue with the 2056cc) I believe Tangerine racing makes cut to length tubes but at a cost. Don’t get these confused with the type 1 push rod tube that some variations have been made to be extendable for wide engines. Type 1 and Type 4 push rod tubes are different.
Invest in a Haynes manual if you don't have one and be sure to follow the torque specified from this manual to keep things together and to keep things from breaking. Speaking of torque and money, if you want power go with the LE180 or LE200 heads from Len Hoffman through the type 4 store. There's also a site HAM with his machining services. This will set you back a little $, but very good quality. I purchased the LE200 with dual springs on a 44mm intake 38mm exhaust valve. I would call Len and chat on the phone about availability since I believe these heads are produced in a limited quantity each year. It could delay your time frame in which you are trying to build your engine. You can also look up the flow numbers for these heads on Jake's aircooled site.
Find some 8mm swivel head rockers to replace to 10mm stock rockers if that's what you currently have. (only buy Porsche brand swivel adjustors). Grind down the rocker to allow the swivel foot adjustor to fit. Do this slowly as to not heat up the rocker too much. Clean the rockers afterwards to make sure the oil galleys are clear for oil to flow. Be sure to grind the side of the rocker that faces the valve and verify that the swivel foot has plenty of clearance after assembled at all lift heights.
Measure and cut your push rod to make max lift possible. An adjustable push rod with similar ends and shape to your rods you plan on using is necessary. Use a dial indicator to measure your lift. Once you have max lift achieved extend the valve out to ½ this lift to confirm that the swivel foot adjustor is on the center of the valve stem. If it is not on the center you may have to add shims behind the rocker mounts to achieve less wear on your rockers and adjustors.
Once you have your engine put together invest in a Dakotadigital head temp thermocouple. It's about $150 with shipping but well worth it to protect your investment. Place the thermal couple under #3 spark plug and I would recommend setting the warning temp around 370F ish. There is more information that Jake posted on head temps and the meaning of these temps and operation levels online.
Be sure to save some money for a good exhaust system if you are not going stock. A good exhaust from tangerine will set you back, but again very good quality with all components that are needed included.
Finally work out what kind of intake you will use to support your engine. The limiting factors on my engine I have found is the plenum size and the runner ID. The runner length and diameter will determine where your power band sits for the engine. For a 2056 I’m guessing you can go with the 2.0L intake plenum and runners (which are somewhere around 2mm larger than the 1.7 & 1.8 runners), but for the 2316 I have to increase the runner size to support the flow of the heads. Unfortunately the 2.0 plenum has the worst flow characteristics out of all of the plenum’s but it has the largest volume. (Again check online for more info. There is a good article about the differences in all of these intakes). Technically your plenum volume should equal your total engine displacement. I would stick with the 45mm throttle body on the 2.0L to promote the proper flow velocity for the engine. With a bigger engine you could up the TB size but this would slow your intake velocity.
The D-Jet is the best stock system for the 914, but if you were willing to invest in a EMS system there’s plenty of info on the net. Also I believe Jake has built plenty of engines on carbs alone. If you go this route, you will have to determine what size carb will support the flow to the heads. I would suggest using dual carbs not the single over the middle carb. Not saying theres anything wrong with the single carb but you will get better HP with dual carbs.
I believe SDS is a good choice but there is a lot of info posted about a KitCarlson system Jake worked with around 2003-2005 that you could research to better understand what you are putting into your engine. Unfortunately, the kitcarlson is not an off the shelf kit such as the SDS due to the passing of Mr. Carlson’s father at the time of the development boom amongst other things.
As for what to keep from your engine:
Intake Plenum & runners provided their 2.0L
Shims behind the crank seal on the flywheel side (you will need these to set your endplay of your crank)
Aluminum camshaft cap. (You can see this from the outside of the case with it assembled)
Oil pressure sensor
Oil temp sensor
Windage tray and its red U shape seals (4seals) you will need to reuse this.
Oil drain plug, Oil pump pick up tube, and mesh filter net (lower end of block)
Crank bearing locator pins (5 pins maybe I don’t recall) {careful with these pins they can fall out when disassembly the bearing then you spend a long time finding where they rolled.}
Cylinder and case studs, washers, and nuts
Of course your engine tin and your cooling fan.
The fan pulley hub that mounts on the crank shaft
The engine oil galley relief plugs, springs, and caps (2 locations, 2pcs each)
Alternator and cooling fan housing
The accordion shaped thermostat with mount and the cooling flaps inside of the engine tin.
Distributor gear from below distributor and on the crank
Cam gear from the crank and old cam
I might have missed a thing or two, but that’s just about it.
Other key points:
*Drill and tap and plug the engine oil galley holes. (or have a shop do it for you.) Do not over torque these plugs you will crack your case and will have to start over with a new case… (First-hand experience)
* Upgrade your wrist pins to the 22mm diameter wrist pins (less weight on the rods = more power). You will also need the pistons and connecting rods that go with these rods. (DRD or TYPE4STORE KIT)
*make sure your retaining clips on your wrist pin/piston are 100% set in the groove in the piston. (some people even take consideration of which way the bevel on the retaining clip faces)
*Use lots of oil when assembling parts
*Don’t forget to lube the cam lobed and lifters
*Don't forget to install the lower sheet metal above the pushrod tubes before you put the push rod tubes in.
*replace all of the seals (pelican, scat, automobile Atlanta all have seal kits I believe)
*carefully note which piston ring goes where when unpacking your piston rings.
*Don’t take your cooling fan apart unless you intend on balancing it. Or you can mark it before you remove the bolts and be sure you assemble it back together the same way.
*Dynamically balance all spinning objects.
*Statically balance all moving components (pistons, connecting rods ect)
*A good supplier of engine kits is DRD racing that have kits with many engine components, The type 4 store also has these kits.
*Verify the size, weight, roundness, of all moving components.
*Be careful not to lose the cooling impeller hub key that’s inside the old crank shaft. You will need to remove this key to switch cam and distributor gears from the old to new crank
*Line up the proper tooth on the cam and crank gear
*Look up how to install the distributor correctly. This is a must for a good running engine.
*Incrementally torque the 8 bolts on your heads in a crisscross pattern in around 7.5lb intervals till the full torque is reached.
*Remove your dual springs and replace with single springs for your cam and crank break in before installing the heads. Otherwise risk wiping out your cam.
*add oil when before you crank it over.
* Purge your fuel lines before connecting them to the injectors/carb.
*Break in your engine at around 2000-2500RPM for the first 20 min with a high Zink additive oil when you first run your engine. This sets your cam and crank bearings properly. Change your oil following the first 20 min start up and break in your piston rings over a series of different RPM and load ranges for the next 500 miles (I believe).
*Expect to spend twice the amount or more that you originally intended.
*Treat your wife to multiple nice dinners to make up for the time you will be in the garage or on the phone/net.
Note this is all information I do not claim my own. It has been gathered from the following sites as well as some sites that may have been forgotten. Thanks for reading.
http://www.ephotomotion.com/914engine/index01.html
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.p...l/106-jake-raby
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...83920&st=20
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102429
http://www.914world.com/specs/JakeRabyHeadTemps.php
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...30230&st=60
http://www.pelicanparts.com/
http://www.autoatlanta.com/
http://type4store.com/
http://www.tangerineracing.com/
http://www.rimcovw.com/
http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewto...43&start=15
https://www.drdracingheads.com/
http://www.scatvw.com/master/type_iv/
I think Jake said it best when he stated something along the line that his engines are turn key and basically a one stop shop. (Horribly rephrased). Meaning that you have to collaborate a bunch of resources to build your own engine, but he can build you an engine for a much more convenient fee of only money not time and resources needed to build an engine. I only understood this after completing my 2316cc engine though trial and error, purchase and return and ending up in the same ball park as his list price for the same engine. I'm not trying to discourage you from building your own engine, but just trying to give Jake his credit due. Since Jake has gracefully posted, commented, and corrected internet forums I was able to build my engine using his years of life experience to build my engine.
I built my 2056 w/raby cam (9550) years ago (2003?) now and with it's 120hp its still a really fun fast car.
For a budget minded build stay with as much stock stuff as possible:
Use the Djet stuff for ease of use...
Change the cam to a Raby cam, lifters, cam gear with clearanced bolts, double thrust cam bearings, flat top 96mm pistons, max 9to1 CR, and HAM LS 180 heads with HD valve springs.
Have all the rotating parts balanced for smooth operation and this baby will rev to 6000 without a sweat.
For a budget minded build stay with as much stock stuff as possible:
Use the Djet stuff for ease of use...
Change the cam to a Raby cam, lifters, cam gear with clearanced bolts, double thrust cam bearings, flat top 96mm pistons, max 9to1 CR, and HAM LS 180 heads with HD valve springs.
Have all the rotating parts balanced for smooth operation and this baby will rev to 6000 without a sweat.
Moved you to the garage.
I'm pretty happy with my McMark 2056.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=42456&
I'm pretty happy with my McMark 2056.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=42456&
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