OK, finally getting around to turbo tie rods ends.

The Lemforder kit from Pelican arrived this AM (2 days early--thanks Bruce ). I'm thinking that it will be a pretty straight-forward job; I have already found my special GB wrench, so that will help. I've looked at the related posts/pictures here in the garage (and on Pelican) and it appears to be "doable."

FWIW, I've done similar inner tie rods on a number of Volvo 240-series cars, but it looks like there's much more room to work on those. For the 914, is it best to drop the whole rack, or can the job be done with the rack in place?

One key difference I've already noticed is that the outer tie rods have a plain threaded end where it goes into the arm on the front strut (instead of "flats" or a recessed allen head). How does one keep the threaded end from turning while tightening the self-locking nut? Is it OK to apply a little pressure from underneath (by maybe using a floor jack with a wood block)?

Any advice, how-to's, BTDTs, exploding dogs, Oh$hits, WTFs, and/or FUBARs, would be greatly appreciated!

I've got plenty of time to absorb the collective wisdom--issues w/ aging mom-in-law will have me in NC for the next week to 10 days or so . . .

Thanks in advance!

Steve A-

scale of 1 to 10 its a 2 IMO ... good luck

MikeC

Really not that hard. For me getting the spring clips back on the rubber boots was the hardest part.

those clips are stupidly difficult

With the correct wrench, easy peasy. You don't need to drop the rack, just steer the wheels one way, all the way,
then steer them the opposite way for the other side

The boots are a bitch.

I am a DIY'er and watched a few YouTube videos online. I was able to do the turbo tie-rod upgrade with only a few complications. The old factory tie-rods were difficult to get off on my car, mainly due to the tight working conditions (I did not remove the entire suspension rack) and the rubber bushing at the rack connection making it difficult to get sufficient leverage during unscrewing. The other main complication I found was that the rubber boot springs were a pain in the ass to reinstall. I used a few small screwdrivers to get under them and work them into the tracks on the boot ends. Good luck!

I just did these along with a stock sway bar......and a bunch of other whilr your there crap.

Soak the tie rod ends with PB Blaster overnight

You may need a ball joint seperator for on the strut end joints depending how rusted the ends are.

Lots of PB Blaster on rack end....done right they should just unscrew.

Take the ends off and put the new bellows on the new tie rod and shovebot on until you can get the bellows on the tie rod end in the recess.

Get some bearing grease and smear track with a little where spring keeper and recess for the new bellows goes.

Grab the bellows wit a twisting motion and pull it onto the rack. You may need a small screw driver here or a cheap HF pick set here.

Good luck...it wasn.t that hard.

Oh...that tool is worthless....I did all of it with a pipe wrench with exception of the castle nuts on the tie rods.

take some ruler measurements before disassembly, from the end of the existing tie rod end to the rack. to ensure you are in the ballpark of existing tie rod ends. then you should be going to get a front end alignment, but I did not get an alignment, because my tires are five years old and the car seems to be tracking fine. my GB wrench started to distort when I tightened things up. I later learned that my bicycle crankshaft tool had the 36mm opening that also works for the removal and replacement. dont get me wrong, the "C" shaped end served its purpose.

How can you tell if you have or do not have Turbo Tie Rods that may have been installed by a PO?

Stock tie rods have a "y" yoke joint next to the rack.

Turbo Tie Rods have a small ball joint by the rack.

The bellows are different as well.

Thanks for the info and comments, I should have a set waiting for me when I get home on Friday. I had the same questions and anxiety. PB blaster is a great idea for the 40 YO parts.

Thanks for all of the good ideas and advice--should be a big help. Consensus seems to be that the boot retainer springs are "problematic." I may end up using nylon zip ties (lots of trouble-free miles using those in that application on other cars).

Good idea on the PB Blaster. I've also hear that I should use blue Loctite on the threads of the inner tie rods when installing them onto the rack.

I'll try to remember to take a few pictures of the progress just in case I run into something unexpected.

Oh, and when lubricating the ends of rack for the rubber boots, do I use axle grease, synthetic, Vaseline, KY? At least the latter wouldn't cause any deterioration of the rubber . . . .

Thanks again!

Pictures please!!! Im getttnig ready to this too.

PB blaster is good, but KROIL is my preference.

HF has a $4 dental tool kit that makes this part of the job so simple you will kick yourself for not thinking of it.

overall project rating is a 2 at max also if the spring comes apart you can re-twist them back together with no problem because one end is tapered/threaded. With a little counter twist you can get it back together.

OK, I'm now in Ellerbe NC for a week or so (helping out at mom-in-law's place). Probably won't get to the tie rods until the week of 11 APR or so, but promise to take lots of pics as I work my way through the installation.

Again, thanks for all of the insights!

It's easy until you get stuck on something.

Ok...well not to throw a wet blanket on anything but:

A few lessons learned as I have had my car for a while now...and more then a few BTDT's

1. Make sure your rack is in good order. You can do this by checking the motion and "feel" with the wheels in the air. Any skip's....grinds...binding?

2. Check the ball joint condition. You can do this as the same time as you check the rack by feeling and up and down motion on the a arm with the strut fully extended.

3. Inspect the condition of the front end bushings. Are they still there...are they binding? What about your brakes...rotors?

Anything wrong here and the benefit from the installation of the upgrade (turbo rods) will be negligible. Just sayin.

I decided to install the stock sway bar which didn't come with my car originally. Upon further inspection I found one ball joint totally shot, and one cheap front wheel bearing cage f'd. Probably that big pothole I hit driving up on the 101 to the WCR15.


While the turbo rods are a pretty easy installation they are just one component of your front end check everything IMHO.

Rob

Lol.....the other Rob beat me to the post

Good advice on checking the other components. Wheels bearings, rotors, ball joints, etc. all checked OK. The only "flunk" was the outer tie rod end on the driver's side, which is what got me started on this path.

That said, I forgot to check the hockey puck-shaped coupler in the steering column when the car was up in the air last week. I guess if that thing is toast, then it's time to pull the whole rack, correct? Also, if the coupler has gone south, what's the best source? I'm pretty sure the dealer has the OEM one, but wasn't there a world member making an improved version?

I have one if you need one. There are several different solutions for that anyway. The point is that you don't know what condition the car is until you look and inspect it. I mean think about it.....if that part is bad...what the hell are turbo rods gonna do for you. That part fails you are kinda f'd. Could be and this happened to me...pulled the tank thinking the puck was bad and it turned out the the uni joint that is inside the cavity area was binding because I had installed a bump steer kit without adjusting the u joints on the steering column.

It is a system is my point.

I you have never pulled the tank....you should.... and inspect the fuel lines anyway.

............so is this the stock vw turbo tie rods?


Click to view attachment

What is stock VW?


The top from the picture appears to be a stock 914 tie rod...and I THINK it is shared with the 914.

Qualifier....

Think
Know
Believe

with "think" the least order.

I believe the bottom is a turbo rod...however if you were to install that without a make up washer in between the rod and rack it won't bottom out. There are more than several threads on this issue.

Stand by......


Spam is happening again.

jeez.......I meant vs as in versus rather than VW

I only know what you say....not think

Spam is gone.

Ok. Just sayin that the bottom set up shown is wrong. You don't need the old spring spacer which is the recess for the stock bellows and will throw it away for the turbo rods. THEN you will need a spacer washer in between the rod end that screws into the rack to make up for the old part previously mentioned.

I asked that same question in another thread.

I should have made a thread for this subject but I was too busy trying to get the car done. Lot of work besides my day job.

Thanks. I getting spammed too

Just did this the other day while rebuilding all 4 corners of the car. Pretty easy job. Toughest part was freeing the old tie rod end from the wheel bearing housing end. Pickle fork took forever.

Getting the boots on wasn't bad with a small set of picks to help out.

Yea and here is what takes more time.

POR on the rack cover.

Hooking the brakes back up.

POR on the gravel sheild.

Taking a beer break.....after the brakes are hooked up and bled!

Calling up 914 Rubber and then realizing the the f'd up seal on your rack cover needs replacing.....then wishing you had put in the sway bar!.......ect....ect.


Have fun....can't wait to get all the other stuff put back in. Hopefully by next weekend.

What really sucked was getting everything back together and looking down to see the rubber inner bearing gasket on the ground. I laughed, took a swig of beer and got back to work.

Oh, I guess I should ask here, are the 1/2 inch thick bronze washers necessary when installing the tie rods? I left them off as they seemed to minimize threads into the rack and they made the overall rod length to long in comparison to the old ones. Thoughts?

I understand completely. After installing the sway bar and the turbo rods. I neglected to think about preload on the sway bar. I hooked up the drop links with the suspension unloaded. Had to unhook the drop links and then set the car down then hook up the drop links again.

One thing on the big spacer that holds the old bellows. If you don't add a washer between the rack and the new tie rod it won't bottom out. So when you installed the tie rod did you make up that spacing with a washer?

If you didn't then you should. You asked for thoughts.

I didn't add the washer. It seemed as if the rod was unable to thread into the rack completely with it on. Plus the rod length overall was longer than the old rod with the washer on by a lot. I guess I'll have to revisit the assembly again.

I did use this bronze washer on the left side of the pic which secures the boots. I didn't use the much thicker bronze washer in the kit. I don't have pictures of the thicker washer.

Maybe I wasn.t clear.....

When I bought the tie rods they came as a kit.

You throw away threaded big washer for the stock tie rods and use another washer that is in the kit

Click to view attachmentYour assembly should look like the top.

You are right ...you need to revisit it.
The bellows goes on the small black collar on the tie rod and the other end secures on the rack.

You dont use the big threaded washer or the spring retainer that goes there.

Perfect, That's what I was afraid of. Looks like I'll be pulling that apart this week. Thanks for the info and picture. Always good to get a second opinion. This is all new to me.

The boots go on much easier with a touch of glycerin, again, on the groved disc and the inboard edge of the boot. ANY rubber item or flex plastic goes better with glycerin. If you don't have a small bottle in the garage you're missing out. Guess what makes replacing the seal in an aluminum threshold easier? Guess what makes the white film on NOS seals disappear? Guess what makes replacing the engine bay seals a breeze? Guess what I have a bottle of in the garage?

Letter that rhymes with hay and ends with a question?

Right....got it.

Everyone should use KY on their turbo tie rod bellows to get them on.

There, I said it.

...........so do you pull or push

"You throw away threaded big washer for the stock tie rods and use another washer that is in the kit"

Why?

I used the stock boot retainer, washer. Fits fine and I did get the boot back on.
Please explain the reason to replace it. I must be missing something.

Click to view attachment

You want to use the turbo tie rod boots that extend over that inner knuckle and index on the tie rod itself. And, you DO use the big washer!!

The way you have it set up, the joint is vulnerable to dirt and debris. The part of the boot #2 should extend over and index onto #1.

Click to view attachment

(this isn't rocket science)

That is why.

The other washer MAY be used as a make up spacer so that the tie rod threads will bottom out.

You can make the other washer work bit like Lawrence posted...will expose the heim joint to road debris.

After consulting a mechanic buddy and confirming on my car, I had already installed them correctly. I did the install a month ago and didn't have the car in front of me so I could not visually confirm right away when I previously posted. Turns out I installed them correctly.

On a side note, not every car needs the larger bronze washers apparently. It all depends on which rack you have. Some require the washers to prevent the rods from bottoming out when threaded in. Mine did not need the washers and are apparently installed correctly and will work fine. Had I used the washers I would have zero adjustment in the rod ends.

Just did it last night. Used the washers. Normal for 911 suspension.

I did install with the washers and seem to have plenty of adjustment in the tie rods for alignment. I have yet to have it aligned but I should have time this Friday.

It is interesting to note that I throughly searched and studied this installation and measured every part I put back in.

For the sake of the community who wants to do a step by step? Why so many questions?

Are there differences in the racks in our 914's?

Ok...so where did you hear this and what are the differences in racks in models?

I want to learn something here.

Tom @ TC's Garage told me. He didn't specify what year or vin but he said that some cars need the washers and some don't. After describing the length of threads remaining on my tie rod end, he told me I don't need them. Which made sense to me because if I did use the washers, and then I kept the overall length of the total rod the same as the one replaced, I'd have next to zero adjustment later when getting aligned.

The washers are not there for that purpose.

The washers are there to prevent the rod from bottoming out and not sitting flush and tight against the rack correct? Because mine are currently against the rack, flush, tight and not bottomed out.

I feel like an idiot here because this shouldn't be rocket science.