Shoot, you're right! Completely spaced that aspect, which was the original thing we were talking about in the first place!!

--DD

Hi All,

OK, new clue.

Just pulled the injector connectors.

Pulling #3 AND #2 had no change. Pulling #1 and 4 made engine want to stall.

Now, what does it mean?

Thanks,

Mike

Issue concentrated on 3 and 2. Check if spark reaches cilinder since you mentioned the wires itself had spark. Since the wires give spark (you mentioned that was ok )...it is after the distributor...so check injectors and sparkplugs first.
Get the plugs out and see if they give spark attached to their corresponding distributorwire.

Just connected a spare plug to wire #3, started car and touched it to ground. That one is definitely sparking. Have not tested #2 yet. (Been sneaking out to garage while spouse yells, "are you ready to go yet").

You proofed the spare works...not the real one. :-)
Now...get dressed and make the wife happy !

I don't know much about d-jet but I believe the injectors fire in banks of 2. I am not sure but I think the injection points in the bottom of the distributor control the pairs firing. You could have some problem with the injector points or the connector to the inj points or FI harness. Have you checked all of the injector grounds? Whatever it is it is probably something simple.

Did you actually perform the valve adjustment procedure when you adjusted them?
I would say that proper valve adjustment is key.
It would help you diagnose if there is a real problem and costs the least $$.

So you have been running it on & off, but is it still backfiring, or did it only do it a few times?

Yes, I did do valve adjust after I replaced the rocket rod "tubes" and reinstalled rockers.

I have only run it briefly a few times. It has not backfired at idle since the first couple of times but did have some when I press accelerator. Missing is definitely still there even without backfire.

And what did you use to identify Top Dead Center (TDC) when you set the valves?
Was the distributor installed and did you verify where it was pointing when you were at TDC #1?

Yes, used distributor, flywheel marks, straw in cylinder. I was pretty paranoid about having it right. Most of the valves required very minimal if any adjustment.

That said, it was first time ever adjusting valves son the possibility that I mucked it up is always there.

If I connect a multimeter to the pins of the injector connectors that are not doing anything when pulled, should I see voltage pulses? That would at least tell me that signal is reaching the injectors???

I suppose that once I know there is spark at the plugs and signal to the injectors it narrows things down to:

1) Bad injector (maybe damaged when shop crimped the hoses on there?? Although that seems unlikely)

2) Something with valve adjustment, rockers, or related.

If number 2 I am still thinking I will leave it to Porsche mechanic to fix. If I screwed it up with engine out of car I would probably do even worse with engine in!!

It sounds like valves from that film.
Injectors, need a light to see if each one if getting the pulse....it's a simple.enough test.
You can also switch the wires front to back on.each side, it won't make a difference how it runs, but it may show you something that. Not working.

Yeah, I am leaning toward valves as well. Nothing really changed with ignition before / after but I certainly did remove the rockers and reinstall.

At this point I am just going to take it to shop and let them redo it. Hopefully nothing got damaged in the interim.

On a somewhat unrelated note. Notice in the video that the axles (or at least one of them) are spinning slightly even though car is in neutral. This was before I torqued rear wheel bearings down. I can easily stop the spinning by applying light pressure with a single finger. Still, should they be moving at all?

Thx

The axles turning is no big deal.

I have been in your shoes a few times with my build. You will get it fixed and the World will not let you forget it. Don't take the car somewhere, you are going to get it.

I have L-jet and recently tested the injector spray pattern and for leaks. They all worked, but the procedure was critical. A voltmeter is not going to show pulses, the pulses are too fast. If you want to check pulses, you can go to a parts store that rents tools.

You need NOID Lights. They will flicker. They are easy to use. But if you are checking the spray pattern, you don't need noid lights. The spray will tell you they work.

Keep at it.

Listen to your video, listen to others online
I believe I can hear a loud racket in the cylinder that is not firing.

If it was me, or I was nearby, I would pull the plugs and see which cylinder is not right.
Post pics of the plugs if you have questions.

IIRC, 2 go to the cabin and 2 go to the relay box. The larger 2 wires get 25A and the smaller 2 wire get 20A fuses. Sorry for the late reply.


I thought it was in his signature but guess not, Rich. He has a site for his AmphiCar. The first time I saw one of these was in Austin, Tx at the LAI boat launch. I was around 10 years old then and people were much more naïve. We had just launched and I had just returned from parking the car and trailer (I know, 10 yo but that was TX back then). Anyway this guy comes down the ramp and into the water with a splash like his avatar. I thought to myself, coooool. But the old timers on the dock began to shit in their shoes. One guy ran up the hill and came back with his car and a rope about 5 min's later. My Dad pulled alongside in our boat and thru him a line and life jackets. I'm pretty sure one old geezer swallowed his cigar because I never saw it again after the splash. It was a true Candid Camera moment. About 60 seconds after splash down everyone realized that they had been had but it sure was exciting at first!

Pulled plug #2 since that is one of them where pulling injector plug makes no diff.

It does spark. It looks like a brand new plug (which it is).

My engine had a noise. Turns out it was the alternator. Start it with the belt off just to rule it out. Also when you get the belt off grab the alt pulley and see if it will move in and out. Not gonna be your back fire prob but it can make a valve type metal to metal click.

Alternator was rebuilt before going back in car. So, probably not the problem but I welcome any ideas and will check.

Pretty certain it is valve related. Today I am going to borrow a Noid light set. Since I know there is spark this will let me confirm / rule out fuel.

At one point I was wondering if fuel had gone bad but if that were the case, pulling injector wire would produce consistent result on all cylinders, not just the two.

You can do the injector test where you remove one injector at a time and put it in a baby food jar. Have someone crank the engine and verify the spray pattern.

A noid light will tell you the electrical pulse is reaching the injector, but not if it is actually opening and squirting fuel.

I would think that the odds of two, essentially NOS, injectors failing at the same time would be pretty slim??? They probably have no more than a few hundred miles on them from when they were in car prior to engine drop.

At this point I think I will:

1) Do noid light test since it is quick and easy.
2) Do the spin test on the push rods.

Will then decide where I go from there.

You can also make your own noid light with almost any old LED and a ~200-1000 Ohm (1kOhm) resistor.
Put the LED and resistor in series and put that across the Injector +/-.
If it doesnt blink, flip it around and try again.

A +12V idiot light might work, but the old incandescent bulbs might not blink bright enough.

I think you are getting really close to figuring out the problem. You could pop the valve cover off and just check the #2 cylinder. Rather than go through the whole rotation procedure to check all of the valves just do #2. Rotate the engine until #2 intake is open and loosen #2 exhaust center the push rod and then set the clearance. Then rotate the engine again until the exhaust Valve is open and do the same procedure for the intake valve. Easy to do with a remote starter switch and the coil disconnected. If you don't have one do it with the car jacked up in 5th gear by rotating the tire.

Good point, focus on one cylinder at a time.

I will both kick myself and celebrate if this is the case.

Just tested w/ noid light and all work. So, started looking at "how to adjust valve" threads again when I saw this picture.

Is this right? If so, there is a good possibility that I have 2 & 3 switched on the distributor.

Click to view attachment

Yes, 1432 clockwise when looking down on top

I bet it will run better if you switch those.

Well, do I ever feel like a dope. How many times did I say that the wires were in proper position? (don't answer that).

Sure enough I swapped 2&3 on the distributor and it now sounds like it should.

I am reminded of the time my XJ6 died on the road and I had it towed to a well known Jag specialist. After 2 weeks he could not diagnose the "no start". Based on forum feedback I kept asking if timing was right to which he responded it was spot on. I stopped by there and looked at the engine and then at another XJ6. Distributor was 180 degrees off. Turned it to correct position and she fired up. He still had the nerve to charge me for several hours diagnostic time.

Anyhow, thanks for all the help and guidance from everyone. While I feel like a dope, I am also relieved it was something stupid.

Next issue, she is idling at 3500 RPM with throttle body screw turned all the way in.

Thanks again.

Good, now go drive it.
Told you we have ALL done it.

Real close to that test drive.

First have to get the idle down below 3,500. Probably just a hose or other vacuum issue.

We have all done it. When you change a bunch of different parts at once it is always hard to figure out what is causing the problem.

I used to have an XJ6. Great car as long as you didn't drive it. Lucas, the knight of darkness.

Or timing way too advanced. Check for leaks / disconnected hoses, but also verify timing since you were in and around the dizzy.

I think I found it! I can't test until the AM as my 3 year old is asleep in room above the garage.

When I cleaned up / repainted the plenum I took the plastic piece that the AAR valve connects to off. The gaskets did not look that great but since I did not have replacements I figured I could reuse them.

Tonight I did a flashlight test. I turned out all the lights and shined a bright flashlight down the throttle body. Guess where the light was coming through? Yup, right about where that old gasket sits.

I cut two new gaskets, put everything back and no more leaking light or presumably leaky air.

I'll let you all know the outcomes tomorrow.

Oh well, never that easy. Still idling fast.

I capped all the ports on the plenum (or hoses leading to plenum). That brought it down some.

Need to check ignition timing but before I do wanted to check ...

What hoses or ports need to be capped? Should the mps or distributor vac lines be disconnected or capped. Are there any that should remain connected?

Set knob in timing light to 27 degrees, idle at 3500, look for TDC mark on fan. Correct?

Thanks again.

Pull the vacuum advance and retard lines to the dizzy and cap those (only those). Check/set the dwell first, as that can impact timing. Do you have stock ignition? I lost track...

Here's a good reference: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9.../914_timing.htm

Thanks. Yes, saw that article.

My dizzy only uses the one line, other is open. Do I just pull the line off or do I need to cap / plug anything?

There is a pertronix or similar in there. No points so dwell should not be an issue.

What's best way to view timing port? Just lie on the trunk?

I know not all dizzies have both advance/retard, but not sure what you mean when you say "other is open." Just disconnect and plug the one that is connected and make sure any other lines are capped or connected to where they belong.

You should be able to view the timing port without any problem leaning over the trunk from the side. Helps to have a helper bring the car to 3500 rpm (or whatever is spec).

Again, I'm not sure what ignition or engine you have, so you'll have to set it based on your specs.

I had a high idle issue that was caused by leaky intake manifold gaskets. Have you checked those?

Those are both brand new. I figure I will make sure timing is right first.

Block everything off except the MPS. Then add in one at a time until the high idle returns and you've identified the culprit(s).

Yup, thats what I did. At best a 200 rpm diff with everything capped. I will go after the timing first. My other vehicles are conspiring against me at the moment. This evening, the wife's car needed brake pads for inspection. My daily driver (Jag XJR) needs a new power steering pump arriving tomorrow.

You could also try the WD-40 trick. Spray it around gasket and hose areas and see if/when the idle changes.

2.0L plenums sometimes develop cracks on the bottom surface.
They can be difficult to find since the leak may only be noticeable at high manifold vacuum (ie. idle).

I've been thinking about that possibility. If timing turns out to be spot on, or close, then that is the next thing to explore.

I did bead blast and repaint the plenum so I *think* I would have noticed a crack and / or it would have shown up with the flashlight test. Then again, I was certain I had the plug wires in the right spot so I am not ruling out anything!

Thanks

You need to become a lot more precise.

Remove all hoses from the plenum.
Don't skip this step and lie, you won't find the,issue.

Remove the hoses from the plenum and cap off the hole at the plenum.
If there is a fitting with gasket, remove it and cap off th hole.

Then y will know.

Hope to get back to it this weekend. I do think I capped everything but if timing is not off will try again.

Has anyone tried using smoke testing for plenum or other leaks, seems like that would work well. Pump some smoke in thru the throttle body and see where it escapes?

Since the plenum is not under pressure (pushing air out) you wont see smoke escape. It is under vacuum and will suck extra air in.

Not sure about the mentioned WD-40 trick unless it's the same as Carb cleaner. Spray cleaner aruond the vacuum hose connections and when the idle dips/stumbles, you have found a leak. possibly, one of several.

You could try the carb cleaner "trick." Never seemed to work for me, but then maybe I didn't have any bad leaks at the times I tried it.

Just check the timing. It's easy and quick. If it's not significantly too far advanced you can scratch it off your list rather than chasing down vacuum leaks that may or may not be there.

Did you check the injector seals to be sure the injectors are properly seated? Have you checked the gasket on the oil filler?