Well, some P content - after the semi-fiasco of his 944 experience, he has been carless, but could walk to work and pay his roommate to use his car as needed.

But now he has taken a sales job with a micro-brewery and while it is local and he won't be a road warrior, he really needs something bulletproof, but hopefully still offers some fun.

He will only drive a stick (taught him well), hates FWD (me too, but he may have to suck it up).

We started looking at E46 BMW's but the more I read, the more I think it will be another mistake like his 944 (maintenance and reliability wise).

So what is out there that is cheap, reliable and fun? What do you or your poor car enthusiast 20 something kids drive daily?

They are big, not anywhere near as balanced as a 914 or 944, and clunky, but late-90s Mustangs are cheap and reliable, given proper upkeep. I had one all through college and loved that car. Never left me stranded and it was fun "enough" to drive. Worst comes to worst, slapping another engine and/or transmission in it is fairly straightforward, can be accomplished in a weekend and parts are CHEAP.

Miata

The only thing reliable with a BMW is that at least 1 part will fail every year.

Go Japanese, and to a lesser extent newer Korean. Some Fords and GM are ok.

Gotta agree here, but I would press him toward FWD.
A mustang in the winter is just a sucky car, so is a BMW...

Yes, I grew up with both of them....they suck in the snow.

This, 3300 and it's yours

Second the Miata, for less than 5k I don't think you can find a better Fun/Reliability/sport combo.

I disagree, my E30 has been rock solid reliable. I put 36k miles on it in ~18 months of daily driving duties and weekend shenanigans with no major issues for a 32 year old car. Motor was rebuilt with a E36/7 aluminum block M52 so its fast, reliable, fun, analog and still gets 25-28mpg with a lot of smiles in between. Its out of his budget, but there are E30s out there and they are reliable. The M20 motor needs a timing belt job every 40k, but otherwise a well maintained version will fit the ticket for him. They are getting more expensive though...

Help him buy mine so I can finally get my 914

ps WTF is a E49? do you mean E46?

5k reliable car non FWD?

Top of my head.

Mr2 spyder
Audi A4 Quattro 2.8L (Buy the absolute best you can afford, the 2.8L engine is bulletproof your money will be spent on regular maintenance)
Subaru Impreza
Infinity G35/Nissan 350Z (Assuming it hasnt been beat up) will be over the mark, but maybe worth splurging. An automatic 4 door would be dirt cheap.
Lexus IS300
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
MK3 Supra

I already gave the most on target answer. All those other cars listed can be money pits.

Once you get over the "chick car" bullcrap, the Miata is the only logical choice for:
1. Fun
2. Reliability
3. Easy to work on
4. Parts availability
5. Strong forum support
6. Good fuel economy
7. Fun
8. Good looks
9. Chick magnet
10. Lots of performance mods available
11. Fun

I agree, the mini cooper is fun to drive and great on gas. nice looking mini by the way and cheap!

4 years ago I needed a decent reliable car for not much money. I personally wanted to get a Protege5 wagon (to haul my music gear), but couldn't find one and got a one owner '02 Protege sedan. While not exciting (look for a Mazdaspeed) it's turned out to be a great car. I've done the timing belt, shocks, and brakes; all which were not too difficult. 104k miles when I got it for $4000

typo fixed it.

Miata is a possibility and he likes them, but he may need more room to carry samples.

RWD in winter, he had zero problems getting around in the 944 with winter tires - I assumed any reasonably balanced RWD car with winter tires would be similar (that may still rule out the Mustang lol)

Mini - he like them at one time, but his sister just bought a late model S - may rule it out (I wanted a Ducati until my brother bought one first.... so I get it)

E30s are fine in the snow. most have LSD and with a set of snow tires they cant be stopped.

Im a fan of the Miata but not in that climate

Heading out to meet him for dinner and look at some cars on the interweb, thanks and keep them coming!

Scott,

For $5K -

1. How about an 80's BMW E30 325e/es/i/is with their very reliable I-6, sway bars F&R, great handling & very reliable - I've got almost 200k on mine & it's still the original engine, tranny was rebuilt around 150K=ish .... & still one of our DDs!

The 84-86 325e/es in 3dr Coupe has that great old-school lotsa glass greenhouse cockpit for great visibility, & will get better 17-35 mpg on Regular (I can get 42 on the flat in mine) with 121 HP +/- & about the same HP-to-Wt ratio as our 914s (one of my requirements when I got it new after my 914 got whacked & the wife said we needed a back seat) - vs. the 87-92 325i/is coupes at 161 HP at 15-22 mpg (IIRC they may take the more expensive Mid-grade or Premium due to higher compression ratio, so check that out too).

Forget the M3's of that era, due to their much higher price in his case. The 325s will give him plenty of pep for far less money - even in the 4 dr version, but the 2 Dr Coupes generally have the Recaro Sport Seats & 3 spoke leather steering wheel, etc. in them. The 318's are also out there with less HP, but the mpg isn't that much better than on the 325 6's.

They should eventually appreciate in value now, as the E30's are now gaining popularity. Plus the big BMW parts house Bav Auto is near you guys too!

Mine....
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
... not sure why the site's upload isn't keeping these rotated to horizontal that I did with the jpg files on my laptop, so I give up!

.

2. Although FWD - the 1980's to `91/92-ish Honda Civic Hatchback or fastback Coupe are also an amazingly spritely & good handling car with it's 1.5-1.8L I-4, all with the Honda reliability. There are several run by PCA members in our SoCal AXs, & our son has an `88 Civic HB DX that has been in the family since new with 2 of his uncles, & is now near 200K miles & still a reliable DD for him - he just drove to/from Ft. Carson/Colorado Springs CO to OC/SoCal for leave a couple of weeks ago!

They look really nice & sporty - especially in certain colors & when properly cleaned up & waxed up!

Son's, after we finished the 2008-09 Refurb/Resto....
Click to view attachment

.

3. Early Miata's may also be around at $5K, as are some early Boxsters with hi miles (but with IMS bearing concerns).

Happy Hunting!
Tom
///////

Miata - both my sons bought NA Miata's ('94 and '95), set them up for street and track, DD's year round with winter tires (sometimes), 30 MPG driving hard, reliable, and if they do break, generally cheap and easy to repair. My wife also has also owned two Miatas. Can't say enough good about them. But spend the grand and find a hardtop to go on it for the winter.

Depends upon if a 2 seater, like the Miata will be enough room for him. They are small. I would say a Honda Civic coupe. No issues with these cars they just keep on running with minor maintenance. You can buy therm for under $5K all day long. Reliable, bullet proof and good mileage. Cheap insurance too.

But don't forget that early '90s, second generation Honda CRX. It's a FWD Miata with hatchback interior room.

It wasn't so long ago I'd be suggesting a 914 in this situation ....

You missed the part about him being in the North East... snow... salt... rust.... sleet... rain. I can't recommend a car from the 80s when you can get ABS and other pluses.

FYI- 08 335i E90 at only 90k miles has had replaced just this year.
1. 3 injectors
2. both oil cooler gaskets
3. Fuel filter/level/regulator because the plastic housing cracked
4. both HID ballasts
5. driver door latch/remote control box
6. leaking p/s hose
and a special spark plug socket.

Luckily most of the parts can be had aftermarket or online for less crazy money. The E46 isn't any better from what I've seen on BMW forums.

The 98 325i E36 jut needed minor things. Both front window motors because the plastic gear stripped. The climate control because of the bad cap. The blower resistor pack. The drivers door handle that's a bitch on the coupe. And the A/C comp. Though the interior has fallen apart so it looks and feels ghetto.

A clutch gets old fast in rush hour traffic. Maybe not today but definitely at 30 when your left knee hurts. Plus with the 944 does he really need a sports car for commuting? There are cheaper cars to insure, like Subarus, just saying.

Hands down Miata. Got a 96 for $600, bought a wheel & fixed clutch slave cylinder. Pulled fender out n away from wheel by hand. Shoe horned cheapest WalMart battery in it. Nephew gave it the last of his can o R134 & AC worked fine. Mom stitched in a new plastic window and done. Drove it for a year commuting, loved it! Don't know why I sold it, kicking myself whenever driving on a twisty road. Kids don't let me forget it either.

Anything from the E36 on the beancounters had a say in things so you saw plastic showing up everywhere giving things a shelf life. The E30 was the last of the overengineered cars.

They all had ABS with the exception of the early 318 models (like mine). None of those problems from the NE should scare him in an E30. If that scares him, he can get an iX but realistically its not a problem even with RWD.

Everyone mentioning a miata is also forgetting that this is a sales job for a microbrewery, Im sure at some point he will need a backseat and a trunk.

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5638152174.html totally stock, mint condition

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5645990243.html slightly modified

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5648988443.html AWD but has some rust though very well maintained

I still daily drive a 99 Civic Hatch. You can put a ton of stuff in it, it's quick, fun and gets 38 MPG everywhere I go

Click to view attachment

E30 ftw! Love my E39 (2003 530i, 5-speed) too but you do have to stay on top of maintenance

Agree with the others on the attributes of the Miata and Civic. What about an early 2000s Subaru wagon? They may lack in the fun factor and a manual transmission might be hard to find but AWD, good MPG, reliability and cargo space would be a good trade off to me.

Well I bumped the needle a bit - he is going to look at a Miata tomorrow.

Tried to get him to consider a Honda, but I blame all the tuner boys, he just can't do it (yet).

I think he might need more room, but he cannot deliver beer, so he says all he needs to carry is a case of canned samples...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a VW GTI. The Mk3 2.0 would be my top pick for daily utility, cheap, and reliable.

The Vr6 is fun, but just not as cheap or reliable as the 2.0. For the trade off it's faster than a non-turbo 944 and sounds better too.

Agreed on the E46, very maintenance intensive, more so than the E36. Even the E36 have programmed in R&R (suspension bushings, cooling system every 9-10 years regardless of miles, and I mean the WHOLE system that has plastic. One minor overheat and you are looking at a head gasket job and possible warped head.

The rest of the E36 is pretty solid, particularly the M cars, but even a well cared for one like mine there is always something going wrong....... Very fussy of fuel, maintenance intensive, but worth it if you have the time & $$. E46 has far too many wiz bang gizmos to go haywire.

I'd look at:

1.Celica - My son just picked up a sweet 2000 GTS for 4500. **2000-2005 has timing chain, not belt.
2. Acura Integra -too often overlooked.
3. Mazda 3 - another great car that is underrated.
4. Imprezza Hatch with a Manual.

Not a big fan of Honda, but they get the job done. I'd stay farther away from any VW/Audi product. Just not worth the maintenance headache IMO.

I get it, as I have daily driven Hondas for the last 20 Years - I can guarantee that everyone except one ( low mileage S2000) has been riced out!

I do get respect from the Ricers when they see how clean my car is. But you know what I don't really care - I can drive it anywhere with so little maintenance it's scary. Oil Changes, a Belt every 75,000. In the last year I have done 3 Synthetic Oil Changes, and I just replaced the O2 Sensors. The last Civic Hatch I had I drove close to 400,000 Miles and all I did was Oil Changes, Tires, 3 Timing Belts, Gas - then traded it in for what I paid for it!

Click to view attachment

Are these cars you don't have to work on? My 2003 Acura RSX with 185k miles just died recently with a blown head gasket and cracked plastic radiator. Blue book on the car is $3000. We sold it to pick a part for $500.00. My daughter also needed a cheap car, but I don't want her stranded on the side of the road so we leased a new RAV 4.

I'd go for a 2000's era 1/2 ton chevy truck. 4x4 and a manual transmission can be alot more fun than any car, if you use it right..

Scott
Just throwing this out there. Cheap, safe, good in the snow, relatively local.

Bring a checkbook for gas...but it least it runs on 87.

I thought about buying this for my DD. Still am, I guess.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5816024

Good grief.

He said early on that the car needed to be manual, RWD, and fun.

Reliability was a factor as well. He's young so he needs something that can be inexpensively fixed.

In what universe does 90% of the cars mentioned fit that criteria?

30 year old BMW's? Sheesh..give me a break. I've owned several. Great cars but not for a kid on a budget.

Japanese econoboxes may be reliable but are FWD and not all that exciting.

Old luxury cars? Really? One major issue and the kid is down for the count.

I would love to recommend an early Boxster. But, that's not realistic either.

Hell, if we want to talk sense get a used small truck and be done with it. Reliability, RWD, and practicality all rolled into one! Or, a Jeep. But, that's not what he wants.

I've never owned a Miata but have driven several. Awesome cars for the money. And, I can't think of any other inexpensive car that meets the original criteria.

I agree with a Miata but if it is not enough room & you can talk him into fwd then look at a VW golf or Jetta with a 2.0, manual. Great reliability, sporty, forum support, cheap parts, etc. If he absolutely needs rwd then a Miata is all I can think of.

Scott,
Have you considered being the coolest dad ever and selling him the 914?

Ummm .... Really!? .... no ABS & other goodies on the 914s either!

No ABS - then you go old school & learn to drive it yourself without nannies, & learn to pump the brakes & learn to counter-steer in snow/ice. Then his son will know what to do when the ABS goes out in wet/snow/ice!

My E30 has PS - the Honda Civic & 914 not - & all were great in rain, snow, ice - as well as sun.

You'd think the 70's & 80's were the dark ages!

BTW - our son's 88 Honda Civic has been in Watertown NY / Ft. Drum in Lake Effect ice, snow & salty roads 2011-14, & is now in Colorado Springs Co 2014-present also with snow, ice & salt, & had been in Little Rock & Fayettesville AR for it's 1st decade & a half - so it does just fine in the winter weather.

The E30 does fine in snow & ice for me in the CA Mountains, as well as for many folks I know in the Northeast still driving them.

And if you're driving anything in salty roads country, then you should be washing off the cars - running gear & undersides included - as often as possible!

For Bill & Shadowfax - my `85 325e is not a problem to keep up - usually <$1000/yr & probably $2,000 a year at most when something needs replacement after 30 years & 200K miles.

In fact, it has been 1/4 the costs over the past 28 years as our `88 VW Westy, & far less high-tech shennighans than any of the late-90's - 2000's BMWs, where you can't change a battery without a dealer to reset the OBCs! My neighbor across the street had a 2006 323 wagon, which he traded for a Kia, after it ate him up on the BS maintenance items.

A car budget of $5K is NOT going to buy what most of you are recommending here, in a reliable, relatively low mileage for the year, & well made cars!

Personally, I'd stay well away from any BMW made `95-98 on!

Scott - after he drives the Miata, try to also find some of the other Honda Civics, E30s, GTIs & other likely suspects mentioned here, & also try to find some old Consumer Reports yearly test results for their reliability & reccos for how well they've served.

Car test driving is always a fun sport!


Tom
///////

What happened with the 944?

Subaru WRX. Might be hard to get the WRX for $5000, but super reliable and by far the best cars on the planet for snow.

Super Beetle.

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5657080117.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5640349975.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5621954634.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5644143265.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5624293037.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5640099547.html

With hardtop: http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5610997296.html

http://nh.craigslist.org/ctd/5651473161.html

Just a few......

You live in NH... your son needs to get to work etc.... why would you consider anything other than a Subie? The other AWD cars are spendy to fix and cost more to begin with while the Subaru is all around less expensive. Parts are everywhere - they seem to be the SBC of the Japanese car market too. Even if you get an underpowered one, you can swap suspension pieces with the more robust ones and have a lot of fun tossing it around while still dashing through the snow..
Just speaking from experience.

Because the heart wants what the heart wants!

Most of our P cars seem to be toys- have your toy when you can afford it but meanwhiles ya gotta get around in the NE winters!

Before I get pounced on, this is my personal opinion and what I've done up until now.
I NEVER mixed business with pleasure. That is, I started my driving career with a reliable, cheap daily driver (used VW air cooled of that era) and concentrated on my professional career to save up enough money to buy my "pleasure" car. It took me almost 2 years of savings, plus a small loan to by my first sports car. From that point on I always had 2 (or more) cars. The result is you never have to stress out about someone dinging your sports car since it will only used on weekends, nice days or car events. It gives you something to look forward to in your spare time. Trust me, this is the way to go. Mixing business with pleasure will result in stress and aggravation.

My current daily driver is an '06 Jetta, 5 speed, with Sirius Satellite. Fast, handles great, 4 doors and a gigantic trunk. I've got 110,000 miles on it and it still runs great. You can't get much more practical than that. I'm a front wheel drive proponent in the northeast due to snow conditions in the winter. As long as it's not scraping on the bottom of the car, you will never get stuck.

Dave

Before you pick. Don't forget the airbag recalls that can't be fixed (due to parts shortages). Check the recall list for safety.

Very good point.
Dave

Haha, I have proven that it has a lot of room for beer - lol!

Good points Dave that I have tried to convince him of - but then he brings up the list of sporty or interesting cars I used as daily drivers over the years.

Telling him he isn't me doesn't get much traction lol....

Tuner boys have ruined these too and his mother had one that was nothing but trouble....

Someone mentioned a Jeep, he'd do a boxy Cherokee with a stick (I had one back when, the kids loved it), but they are getting long in tooth due to age and abuse.

I'm not giving up on finding other choices, but as I mentioned he is going to look at a couple of Miatas today.

One is a 2000 with about 70k, the other is a 2007 with about 140K and the asking price is the same.

We both like the newer body style better and I tend to believe (everything else being equal) that age deteriorates a car more than miles - plastic hardens, hoses get brittle, gaskets leak, bushings crack, etc. due to age not miles.

Thoughts?

The 2007 looks so good in the pictures that I'd consider buying it from him if it didn't work out (and he didn't Fuch it up).

PS that white E30 in NH Craigslist is gorgeous (I had already seen it, I'm sure he has too), but is a really nice 30 yo car really a good choice for a year round DD?

PPS Good point qabout checking for air bag issues and other recalls.

I'm in the Subaru camp. Inexpensive, great in snow, easy to maintain and fix. Also agree that mixing business and pleasure is difficult. At that budget, both sides will be compromised. There's one other factor to prioritize here...and forgive me if I sound like a guy in his 50s with kids of driving age....safety. With a DD, I'd encourage him to get the safest car possible. A tank, preferably. He can always borrow your teener to get his fun fix on weekends...in good weather when at least that variable is removed from the safety equation.

And remember...the hunt is half the fun:)