I don't know if any of you remember this, but when Brad and I moved into that stinch of a place in Fremont, we had a go-around with that piece of shit landlord about the carpets not being cleaned. It took me threatening to call the health board on him before he got someone out to clean the animal piss off the floor and I was informed by the guy who came out to clean the carpets that they had not been cleaned before we moved in...but I dropped it because he finally gave in and had someone come out to spot clean it.

I spent over $500 getting that placed cleaned when we moved out last month and now he sends me what is left of my deposit less $517 for:

"Carpet cleaning that was done was unprofessional and required carpet cleaning = $256.00"
"Cleaning throughout, very dirty stove, kitchen cabinets, windows and window tracks, bathrooms, fan, etc. - $140.00"
"All mini blinds dirty throughout very dirty see photos - $121.00" of which no f**king photos were provided.

I'm downright shocked and so f**king furious I can't even see straight. Those carpets were cleaner than they were when we moved in. And the people who cleaned it were "suggested" by THEM!!!!

Ok, lawyers...I need help, I cannot and will not let this shit go by. Can someone help?

I vaguely remember a thread about you guys moving into the apartment (filthy carpets), was there any pictures, before and after, posted in that thread? Is there any way that the statements made in that thread about what was done to make it sanitary enough for human habitation that would be useful, or even admisable?

I didn't take picture, no. But the guy who came out to spot clean them agreed that it was animal pee. What gets me is how can they do this when I provided them receipts to the cleaning and I used the people they suggested? I'm floored. Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised after what they did when we moved in. But they are supposed to have taken pictures before we moved in last year, or so they said.

Small claims...tenants rule there....file a suit and have the Sherrif serve him. Then give him the opportunity to come clean prior to court.

You will probably need to take them to small claims court. You will need to have them properly served as well. Save all of your receipts for your costs for servicing them and any other costs. You can sue for those as well.

Make sure you have the agent of service for the landlord. The landlord might be incorporated, so they have a specific person.

Look up all of the details that you wrote when this happened when you moved in. You have a copy of your notes and dates in the original thread here. Use it as a part of your notes. Anything that you have that documents your side will help in small claims court.

Small claims works more like arbitration. Likely the judge will split the difference with you.

There are lots of places on the web to look this stuff up.

Good luck.

If I don't get a suitable response out of them tomorrow, I'll probably do the small claims court thing. I think it is completely unfair for them to take my receipts for the work I paid for and completely ignore it or go back to the people who did it without a single "by your leave" and then "say" they paid for it to be done again so that they could keep my deposit. This SOB is a thief, plain and simple. But then, he said the carpets were cleaned before we moved in and they weren't.

Does anyone know what it costs to do small claims?

Hi Lyressa....

You failed to mention anything about the "walk through paperwork". Did you walk through with the landlord before moving in, noting the condition of the carpets in writing? And did you do a walk throught immediately after you moved out? Both parties should have signed the paperwork before the move in and after the move out. If this was not done it just becomes your word against his. I wish you luck and remember if you go to small claims court, the one with the largest pile of paper wins. Eddy

QUOTE (Lyressa Roberts @ Apr 12 2005, 07:02 PM)

Does anyone know what it costs to do small claims?

Depends on the County....10-100 bucks...but if you win, you get court costs back as well. Your County should have a website that explains it all.

In Ohio it's only like $25 to file...could be more in CA.

I usually just have my attorney write a letter. That get's the job done 90% of the time. We did that last week for one of my employees who had a similar situation with carpets not being cleaned after a sewage leak.

I'm SURE there is an attorney here on the board somewhere that can write a 'nastygram' and get some results for you.

QUOTE (smooth_eddy @ Apr 12 2005, 07:13 PM)

Hi Lyressa.... You failed to mention anything about the "walk through paperwork". Did you walk through with the landlord before moving in, noting the condition of the carpets in writing? And did you do a walk throught immediately after you moved out? Both parties should have signed the paperwork before the move in and after the move out. If this was not done it just becomes your word against his. I wish you luck and remember if you go to small claims court, the one with the largest pile of paper wins. Eddy

I couldn't get them to go out to the property. Literally, when you went to their office, they just gave you a key and sent you on your way. And when I accepted the property, they stated that a video tape was made of the premises prior to move in and that was it.

Yep, it looks like I may have screwed myself again where this bastard is concerned.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Apr 12 2005, 07:16 PM)

In Ohio it's only like $25 to file...could be more in CA. I usually just have my attorney write a letter. That get's the job done 90% of the time. We did that last week for one of my employees who had a similar situation with carpets not being cleaned after a sewage leak. I'm SURE there is an attorney here on the board somewhere that can write a 'nastygram' and get some results for you.

You know, that might be all it would take with this guy. Would there be a lawyer here willing to take the cost of a stamp and paper to write a letter for me?

QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 12 2005, 05:32 PM)

Small claims...tenants rule there....file a suit and have the Sherrif serve him. Then give him the opportunity to come clean prior to court.

tenants rule!

Give me the address of the place. I'll make sure everyone going in and out of that place learns of these crooks. I dont recall the exit but I recall what the place looks like. I also need the name/number of the carpet guy and cleaning lady.


B

I hope you payed for the cleaning with a cheque when you had it done (proof that you payed for it). Go to the cleaners you hired and explain what's happened and ask them for a letter stating what and why they did the cleaning. A letter from you to them asking for the info might help. Also copies of the reciepts that you gave to the landlord.

Remember don't get mad get even. Ask the courts to award you interest on the money you spent at the same rate credit companys charge (18 -22% per annum).

Contact the current tenents and tell them what your going thru (the landlord probably does this to every tennent). Ask the current tennent if the carpets were recleaned and if the landlord took any pictures. Get a statement from them if possible.

$15 to sue in small claims court here......good luck

Whoa...BTDT

Years ago I moved out of a rental into my first house. The landlord was an absolute A$$HOLE.

I got charged $9.00 for a light bulb. $100.00 to clean the mini-blinds, which I installed and left for them. Also $350.00 for painting.

I called the jerk-off and explained to him that it was the law that he had to paint before another tenant moved in etcetera...blah...blah...blah. Three phone calls later and one threaten of a law suit I got all the money back.

Landlords hate the threat of lawsuits.... they know that they usually lose in court.

Keep your head and make the threat.

QUOTE (Lyressa Roberts @ Apr 12 2005, 05:26 PM)

I didn't take picture, no. But the guy who came out to spot clean them agreed that it was animal pee. What gets me is how can they do this when I provided them receipts to the cleaning and I used the people they suggested? I'm floored. Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised after what they did when we moved in. But they are supposed to have taken pictures before we moved in last year, or so they said.

I thought I remember Brad posting photos of your new place. Do a search from back around the time you moved in. I don't remember if they showed the spots or not.

I was leaving a place after renting and knew the landlord was going to be a prick. I called a place called "Renter's Advocate" and for like 50 bucks they sent someone out on my last day to go over the place with me. When I moved out the landlord tried to screw me on my deposit as well with a bunch of little petty bullshit items. I sent them a copy of the inspection report from the agency I used and got the rest of my deposit back within a week.

scam, scam, scam. $121 to dust the blinds? i mean, how dirty can they get? a complaint re "dirty window tracks"? if you had to make numerous calls when you moved in, doesn't your cell co store records of calls made? see their $517 raise and push the chips all in. they will muck their hand. DEMAND to see original tape! how do the local tenent laws read re normal wear and tear? there may be other complaints lodged against the leasing co/owners. i'm sure most folks will just give up and eat the damage deposit loss. go get em!! we need a pitbull smilie. i know b doesn't smoke and i don't imagine you do either, so that complaint is out the window.

k

k

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 12 2005, 10:44 PM)

Give me the address of the place. I'll make sure everyone going in and out of that place learns of these crooks. I dont recall the exit but I recall what the place looks like. I also need the name/number of the carpet guy and cleaning lady. B

Yep...I'm waiting on a call from them today. They don't open for another 15 minutes, but I plan on getting those numbers. I do have the number of the contractor and I'm thinking about calling him too. I'm just floored.

Lyressa,
Here is a link that has a contact number for the city of Fremont.
Good Luck! PaulFremont

read this CA code. did he give you a chance to correct this stuff?


Moving Out
The law stipulates that a landlord do a pre-move-out inspection with you, let you fix identified deficiencies and limits what can be withheld. It also says how long the landlord has to return your money and what he must do to justify any withholding.

According to California Civil Code Section 1950.5:

•Upon your request, the landlord must conduct an inspection of the apartment with you. This must be done in the last 2 weeks of tenancy, The landlord must let you fix anything which is wrong and the landlord is limited to taking deductions for unfixed deficiencies, damage which occured after the inspection, or damage not found at the time of the inspection.
•Your deposit must be returned to you within 21 days after you move out. Your landlord must give you a written, itemized statement of the reason for any amount withheld from your deposit. Money can be withheld only for:
–Unpaid Rent (talk to a counselor if you are breaking a lease or giving less than 30 days’ notice).
–Damage caused by you beyond normal wear and tear.
–“Reasonable” cleaning charges.
•If your security deposit is not returned or accounted for within 21 days, you can sue the landlord in Small Claims (limit is $5,000; if higher, then lawsuit would be in Superior Court Limited Jurisdiction) court for the amount of the deposit, plus twice the amount of the deposit if you can show bad faith, plus any actual damages.

Effective 2004, landlords must now provide receipts documenting the costs of claimed repairs or estimates, unless the landlord does the work themselves (in which case they must describe the work done. In either case, if materials are purchased, copies of the purchase receipts must be provided (or estimates).

and this..


Stubborn Landlords
If your landlord does not return your money on time or if he unjustly withholds some of it, be prepared to assert your rights. Remember, many landlords withhold all security deposits knowing that many tenants will not take the steps to get back their money.
Go To Small Claims Court...
•Send a letter to your landlord requesting the money. Refer to the Security Deposit Laws (CCC Sec. 1950.5 and SF Admin. Code Ch. 49). Give the landlord a deadline date of when you expect the money.
•If the landlord doesn’t respond within a reasonable time, you can take him/her to Small Claims Court. For a small filing fee, you can sue for up to $5,000. In addition to the disputed money, you can sue for stauatory damages for your landlord’s illegally withholding your deposit. Small Claims Court is informal and no lawyers are allowed. A few weeks after you file a claim, a hearing will be held. You will tell your side of the story and the landlord will tell his/her side. Your written documentation (receipts, inspection report, photos, etc.) will help your case. You must sue in the city where the rental was—if you rented in San Francisco then you must sue in San Francisco.

One place, of which you mention, that I may have shot myself in the foot is the inspection thing. They called me wanting to send out an inspector, but when I wasn't going to be home, and I told them that unless it was the property manager himself, I didn't want some stranger in my house. So the "inspector" just left a note on the front door stating what needed to be done to the place before we moved out. Of which, we did.

They never called me or anything about the cleaning or the carpets...I turned in my keys on the last day, gave them a receipt from the carpet cleaners, told them who cleaned the house, which was a person they recommended. I didn't get a receipt from the lady that day because she didn't have one on her. But they never called me to say anything was wrong with the place, they just waited the maximum amount of time to return my money and just deducted the cleaning and carpet again.

I agree, they should have called me to state they thought it was unacceptible, but they didn't. I think that ticks me off more than anything. I think you may be correct in that he is just hoping I'll drop it.

PM comin'

In the mean time, the key to getting what you want here is NOT to get wound up with this guy or his people. Don't call up and start yelling and threatening just yet. If you get too far out over your ski's when dealing with this sort of garbage, they will quickly write you off as a nut, and things that might have otherwise motivated them will fall on deaf ears.

Yea, I was a little upset last night when I called them and left a message, but I said no bad words (as I'm like to do when wound up). The only indication that I was t'd was my voice was shaky. I just told them that I didn't think it was right that they charged me again for something I provided them receipts for.

I should have seen this coming from the way he treated me when we first moved in.

Wife took former landlord to small cliams for a security deposite dispute. Landlord didn't show, but his administrative assistant did. Wife won the suit, but admin. pleaded hardship (POS Landlord owns three rather large complexes). Wife was paid $25 per month till paid in full......still can't believe the judge allowed that! It was little satisfaction for so much aggrivation.

Andy

Well, for me it's the principle of the thing...besides the fact that I can't afford to throw away money...I'll take payments. I'm must stumped.

I just called the lady who cleaned the house, since she was the one I actually didn't get a receipt from, and she told me she would call the management company and get that part worked out so I could get my money back. I told her if it didn't work, that I would need something from Christine stating that she did go out there and she said ok.

I hope it doesn't go as far as having to go to court, but if it does, since it is so cheap, I'll do it. Hell, especially if I get a sympathetic judge and he invokes a "Bad Faith Penalty" on the landlord...I could use an extra $4,000!!!

Ask to see the videotape they claim they made. They may not have actually done it, just said so to back you down.

I don't think I have to do that...I have a receipt from a professional who cleaned the place...and they made no attempt to contact me if they thought it was unacceptable. To me, that is bad faith. The man has lied to us siince the day we moved in, I wouldn't put anything past him pulling tricks now. Anyone can fabricate receipts and what not after the fact. What he probably doesn't know is that there were 4 people there when the carpets AND the house was being cleaned by the professionals. We were waiting on them to be done so we could leave and lock up the place.

This entire last year with this landlord has been a learning experience. I just cannot believe that a so-called professional organization can be so "UN"-professional and uncouth in their dealings.

Isnt it a California rule that the 'security deposit' is only to be used by the landlord for cleaning and repairs above and beyond what would be considered 'normal wear and tear'?

I've never had my security deposit tapped.. and for the most part I've done what you did, cleaned the place, at least setting it back into the shape it was in when I moved in, which you did above and beyond.

This whole story is crappy. Check CA landlord/tenant rules regarding security deposit. I'm certain I remember reading about that whole 'normal wear and tear' rule...

Besides shouldnt your deposit have been kept in some sort of escrow/interest account... as well....

You can win this, sounds like a slum landlord and generally with those types a good letter and any indication that you may ruin their day with a dance in court.

a GOOD link for you http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/s...sec-deposit.htm

California law specifically allows the landlord to use a tenant's security deposit for four purposes:

* For unpaid rent;
* For cleaning the rental unit when the tenant moves out, but only to make the unit as clean as it was when the tenant first moved in;[161-below]
* For repair of damages, other than normal wear and tear, caused by the tenant or the tenant's guests; and
* If the lease or rental agreement allows it, for the cost of restoring or replacing furniture, furnishings, or other items of personal property (including keys), other than because of normal wear and tear.162

A landlord can withhold from the security deposit only those amounts that are reasonably necessary for these purposes. The security deposit cannot be used for repairing defects that existed in the unit before you moved in, for conditions caused by normal wear and tear during your tenancy or previous tenancies, or for cleaning a rental unit that is as clean as it was when you moved in.163 A rental agreement or lease can never state that a security deposit is "nonrefundable."164


161 For many years, landlords, tenants and courts used the "clean as it was when the tenant moved in" standard as the practical standard for determining whether the departing tenant left the rental unit clean. A new law has made this practical standard the legal standard as well. (Civil Code Section 1950.5((3), as amended (see Appendix 6).) The new legal standard applies to tenancies for which the tenant's right to occupy the unit begins after January 1, 2003.
As with any statutory provision, this provision should be given "a reasonable and common sense interpretation consistent with the apparent purpose, which will result in wise policy rather than mischief or absurdity." (7 Witkin, Summary of California Law (9th ed. 1987) Constitutional Law, Section 94.)
Notwithstanding this new standard, the tenant is not responsible for damages resulting from normal wear and tear (Civil Code Sections 1950.5(,(e)), and the rental must, at a minimum, be fit to live in at the beginning of each tenancy (Civil Code Section 1941; see discussion of "Habitability").

Yea, I've had 8 hours to sleep on it so I'm not so upset anymore, so I'm going to take my time and follow the rules they've set. I'm writing a letter of protest today and am going to give them 2 weeks to rectify the situation and then if they don't I'm going to take it to small claims. The City of Fremont told me to put a stipulation of time on it so that they don't drag it out. So we'll see what happens. I spoke to the property manager this morning and she said she was going to talk to the cleaning lady to see what happened there, so hopefully something will come of that. As for the carpets, I have my receipt and I hired a professional company to do the work, so I don't see where they have a leg to stand on in either case. They made no good faith effort with me so I don't see how they can win since I followed THEIR rules.

QUOTE (Boldylocks @ Apr 13 2005, 12:08 PM)

161 For many years, landlords, tenants and courts used the "clean as it was when the tenant moved in" standard as the practical standard for determining whether the departing tenant left the rental unit clean. A new law has made this practical standard the legal standard as well. (Civil Code Section 1950.5((3), as amended (see Appendix 6).)

Yea, and considering I left the place CLEANER than it was when I moved in should say something. I had to clean up most of the animal "PEE" that someone left there because the property manager wouldn't hear it.

QUOTE (Lyressa Roberts @ Apr 13 2005, 12:12 PM)

Yea, and considering I left the place CLEANER than it was when I moved in should say something. I had to clean up most of the animal "PEE" that someone left there because the property manager wouldn't hear it.

I'm thinking you'll be alllll right...
Just follow the leads on the board..
Stay calm etc., and in the end, so me, slum landlords will give in before going to court....
He probably rented your unit to the next tenant with a 50 - 100 buck increase in rent anyway.
He'll get his cash tha bastahd.

Oh yea, they will. The property manager, at this point, keeps telling me that I have to deal with the property owner and that they only managed it, they don't own it, but they are the only one's I've dealt with this entire time and they have, time after time, refused to give me the owners name and address. If I have to deal with the owners, why won't they give me their contact information? Sounds like a ploy to me.

If you think this will eventually end up in Small Claims court you might check with the Small Claims advisor if Fremont has one. They usually have their office in the same building as the court. Spend 15 minutes with him and it might help you a lot. I successfully sued a deadbeat mechanic once after the S.F. Small Claims advisor helped me organize my case. Once you're before the judge you aren't allowed any legal help other than your own prepared notes, if I remember correctly.

Well, the guy I spoke to at the City of Fremont also gave me the number to a Mediation Service. He said this may help also if writing the dispute letter doesn't work. So, I'm sure I go this route first to see what happens. If a 3rd party like a mediator gets involved, maybe it will spur some action without taking any legal action. But if it does come to that, I'll contact them as well. The guy at the city also sent me a link to all the small claims information. It probably has something in there, but until it comes to that point, I'll just keep it in my inbox.

QUOTE (Lyressa Roberts @ Apr 13 2005, 12:30 PM)

Oh yea, they will. The property manager, at this point, keeps telling me that I have to deal with the property owner and that they only managed it, they don't own it, but they are the only one's I've dealt with this entire time and they have, time after time, refused to give me the owners name and address. If I have to deal with the owners, why won't they give me their contact information? Sounds like a ploy to me.

Is/was the lease agreement between you and the management company or you and the owner...

Hmmm. That's a good question. I'll have to dig it up, but I think I do recall that the owners name was on it...otherwise, how else would I know that they are East Indian...

Your city hall will have the record of who the owner is. Land Titles office is what it is called here.

I think he was saying who my lease was with...and that I'm not sure about. I think it has the owners name, but the property managers address...I'll have to look that up when I get home.

silly girl. you are supposed to just stop paying your rent a few months before you move out. people who do the "right thing" get screwed.

but, you have rights

http://www.dca.ca.gov/legal/landlordbook/

and, small claims court was free, last time i did it, i think. and so simple and fair that it is almost fun...

Hey Butch!! Long time, no hear!

Yea, that was my thought process later this morning after I calmed down...no need to get in a hurry and all worked up. I just have to trust the system and if the system says I'm wrong, then I'll fume about it for 10 minutes and go on but at least I will have comfort in having done my due diligence. But I don't see how they can say that I am...which is another reason why I calmed down.