Thanks TC, anyone else I should bow down to? Just tired of nit-picking nice cars. That's all. I really don't care who it is

Nicely stated Pete.

Wow, you're a real Delta Hotel, aren't you? You're one of those guys that if you were broken down on the side of the road in your 914, and I was in mine, I'd just drive right on by, and yell foxtrot yankee at you...wonder how you fit thru doors with a head as big as that...

Boy between the 914-6 and a '67 912 (that went for over 100K) at Gooding this sure brings out the discussion, and fangs... (lots of opinions over at rennlist too)

I too was lucky enough to be at Gooding to see the car, and even with a couple things "wrong" I would agree (after restoring my '73 2.0) that the seller probably didn't make much on the sale, and the buyer got a great vehicle.

A yellow 6 at Bonhams went for a little over 60K- it seemed solid (or as much as you can tell crawling around a car at an auction, but had a crummy repaint and a totally unrestored interior. Unless you're really lucky, I don't think you'll ever get a deal at an auction!

I hope the buyer of the 6 enjoys it, and that we don't see it show up in a year or so at another auction...

BTW, Pete can you imagine what one of the 914-8's would go for, if they were ever "released" from the factory????

Congrats to both the buyer and the seller, auctions have an amazing ability to determine market prices. Although I do have to admit that the Kindig VW Bus for $275K seemed steep.

I don't think Porsche needs the money so I don't expect to ever see it up for sale but I see the pair as a million dollar cars and if I had the money, I would buy them and drive them.

Anyone notice on the 914-6 that Bonhams sold for 60K had a 180mph speedo, then claimed original mileage of less than 27,000? Here is Bonhams wording on the mileage: "The car is listed in the 914 Registry, and it has been noted in the past that the odometer reading of less than 27,000 miles is in fact the car's original mileage."

What the hell does that mean?

hell ya! even with stuff incorrect .... ...

indeed

it's the total of the $ you're going to be paying after the hammer drops that is a little alarming. a 10% buyers premium and you're at $99k. now the Washington state 'second sticker'. you're going to endure a 7.3-10.3% sales/use tax dependent upon where you live. not to include any other fees such as title agency, plates and yearly tabs. call it $7.2k using the lower tax rate. $106k after tax dollars. yipes.

what is the scenario with regards the IRS when $90K+ suddenly appears in some account? audit time?

There are plenty of people with money. Lots of money. I've seen car collections with 30 and 50+ cars and $100k would be on the low end. If they want it, they buy it.

A customer just wired $200K to us for an ST replica build. That didn't include the car purchase.

thats why im not going the auction rout......no idea what the tax man would say but Id sure like to find out...maybe

If the fellow kept all his parts and labor receipts, I bet he's have a loss deduction he could take if he were in the business. It does bring up an interesting point however regarding taxation on used car sales. Though traditionally the sale of a used car is for less than it's original value, how is it handled in an appreciating asset? Long term capital gain? Where are these sales reported to the IRS?

If money was no object to me (aka Bill Gates level money), I would buy every single 914-6 that is in that condition for $90K. No questions asked.

Unfortunately, money and me....well, we tend to part ways early and often.

The documentation from the auction could be problematic when trying to sandbag WA state on the purchase price. 'It was only a 6k car 40 years ago' isn't going to get much traction. Don't know how other states view these types of purchases.

I think auction sales are treated just like auto dealers so if you are registering the car in the state that the auction is in they collect the sales tax and pay it to the state. Out of state you pay sales tax on the car when you register it in your state. Private party sales are fair market value of the car, you can low ball the figure but if they are on top of it they will contest it. Attached Sales Tax chart for Illinois.

Capital gains for the seller is on his own for reporting but an auction sale is a very public event.




Click to view attachment

I'm no CPA, but I CAN speak from personal experience on this. And, in Wa State, FWIW. Sold early 911E for considerably more than I paid for it due to appreciation. My CPA said "Who the hell sells a used car for more than they paid for it?"

Yes, it's reportable and a cap gains hit. I kept every receipt for expenses as deductions against the gain. Unfortunately, you can't count your own labor. Still had to pay tax on net gain .

There should be no issues with IRS, assuming funds are legit and traceable. Buyer pays sales tax in Wa. State at time of title transfer. That was also deductible when I bought the car, at least for me. Neither event triggered an audit.

- MR

Also in WA, you take the vehicle to a WSP inspection station. NOT safety related. We don't have that type. Verification of serial/ID #s. Pretty sure there is another fee for that as well. If there's a problem you can't register the car. One car that came up here from cal some years back, a 76' with carbs had earlier #s and perlon glued down in the trunks. was involved. The guy that boUght the car didn't even try to title it. Poof. It just sort of faded away along with his money.

That's an interesting point. Isn't that only if the car comes from out-of-state? I remember doing that for the 914 I bought with Oregon plates, but haven't done that since.

- MR

Oops, forgot to include the out of state purchase aspect, but you're correct. In state purchased cars don't don't have to jump that hoop.

for exactly that reason, i eventually declined a large tempting offer for my car last year - the buyer was a California "collector-dealer" - who would report his cost as his new basis - and was paying by traceable bank transfers

IRS Publication 551 is sobering

no matter how many old receipts we have - if we are selling as individuals it's a considerable problem - especially with cars that have gone up astronomically in value in the past few yrs & as pointed out above, especially if we did a lot of work ourselves (it's just a hobby, ya' know)

the reportable gains hit made my net far too low –I don’t need the money & I still like the car; so instead I decided to get rid of a couple other cars that won’t be a tax problem & spend my waning yrs enjoying just one - maybe someday i can just swap it for something of similar value that i'd enjoy more?

i have a friend who deals in hi-$$ US-iron a lot - he only does CASH; and i've subsequently had interest in my car from a similar fellow who said up front - " I bring CASH" (that can be a reason to sell for less than "auction value")

- how one gets a lot of cash into one's bank is another matter - the banks have reporting rules to follow, including if they see a whole bunch of "under-$10K" deposits

but maybe we can be too paranoid - or maybe we have no choice but to sell (been there....)

fwiw - a friend who privately sold a collectible vintage sports racer 2 yrs ago just took & deposited 2 20K payments and nary a thing happened - no IRS, no state taxes, no bank reports, etc

‘way back in time – I used to do “1031 exchange” real estate deals that delayed some problems – but they can be intensely complex, can require multiple parties, and are often scrutinized (google it)

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yes - there are a helluva lot of "Personalized Porsches" in this world

- used to be that it was a mark of some distinction & pride in the Porsche world to improve our cars; make 'em faster, make 'em handle better, upgrade the wheels & tires, make 'em more pleasant to drive, etc -

- the Concours/auction-value/"restored-to-originality-appearance" mindset has diminished that (never mind what's really under the skin that cannot be touched with a white gloved finger)

value/price depends a whole lot on what one plans to do with the vehicle & what one's chosen social circle is enthusiastic about

many of us pride ourselves in owning 914-6s (& 914s) partly due to success in competition - and the factory was openly intent on using that as a marketing tool to sell all models of the car - - imho, nobody in right mind would buy & race a bone stock mechanically- & body- correct 914-6 - they simply were not up to the test

e.g., the GT competition cars were improved & modified for good reasons - nary a one ever was "showroom stock"

- a few that are arguably "worth" & "cost-to-build" several times the above subject's $90K actually do show up in PCA & major vintage racing venues .... (like RR-V - Gp-3 - SIX of them, any of which one doubts can be had for a paltry $90K if they were offered for sale)

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