My wife and I are getting close to pulling the trigger to buy a Porsche 914. As you can see from my signature line, I'm not scared to buy cars from that era. We love fun to drive small "value" sports cars from the late 60's-early 70's.

I'm currently studying 3 cars. 2 are local (which I strongly prefer) and 1 is not (I'm not scared to ship, after all I imported 2 of my current fleet and others have come from Arizona and New York). The car that is not local is quite frankly over our budget and I think overpriced. However, it is a color that my wife loves deeply and if it could be negotiated down a little bit and if it really is a great car, I may be willing.

I'm going to be going to look at and drive the two local cars soon.

Is it okay Forum Etiquette to post links and solicit input? I would love to see all the comments criticizing and tearing up the cars. They don't belong to me so you won't be insulting me and if I buy one of them, at least I know how bad they are. The VIN numbers don't show up in the databases here so I assume I won't be insulting members.

Our current desire (but willing to consider others)
Excellent Condition (2, may 3+) 1973 2.0
We don't care about A/C at all. None of our old (pre 2000) cars have A/C and we don't mind driving them in Atlanta summer (both my wife & I grew up in Georgia without Air Conditioning)
Color - needs to be interesting - Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Orange, prefer not Gray-scale (but again, great condition may overcome that)
My original budget was <20k but I'm considering increasing that a little bit (again, great condition can overcome that)

I thought about posting this in the WTB Classified but since I'm soliciting discussion on specific cars, thought this would get attention. (Moderators - if you want to move to that forum, fine by me)

Thanks

You're in the right forum for this post IMHO.

Print & take this form with you to check out 914s -

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zTN_Gen_914CAF.pdf

Also use these sites for all sorts of build & technical info -

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/ < also look at his other sites for 914 stuff linked there

p914.com ( .org & .net - you may have to add these at his links if some are still dead)

So what is that "magic color" your wife loves?

I see that you already have the Emma Peel Elan, Graduate Spider & Max Smart Opel GT, but my ole brain isn't coming up with a movie link for the Lancia, although I'm sure there are some. Nice little stable!

With all of those in hand, you must be experienced with looking for the tin worm, & 914s are no different, with the battery area in the engine bay being a major culprit to check, as well as the longitudenals/jack posts & underside/belly pans.

Being in the ATL area, you may want to swing by Auto Atlanta in Marrietta & have a chat with George Hussey, who's been around 914s as long as rust.

Also, the PCNA HQ & Experience Center by the airport has a reference library which may come in handy at some point.

Happy Hunting!
Tom
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BLUE, Blue, and more blue. Our Alfa is blue, our Lancia is blue, our Elise is blue.

One of the cars I'm interested in is the Green 1973 on Auto Atlanta website and that is one of the locations we plan on visiting.

Since there appears to be no objections thus far to posting links. Here is the far-off car that I think is overpriced but makes the wife very happy (to quote her - "if we got that car, I'm just going to drive the **** out of it").
Love the color not the price

Here is my leading candidate. This and the green one advertised by Auto Atlanta are the ones I'm thinking about.
Close to home

I'll read the reference material you provided. We are big on research and decide if we want something and then attack and buy. (I've seen many people who won't buy their dream car for fear of making a mistake. We don't have that fear. I made a mistake on a car - 1928 Ford Model A, and it required more work than we wanted and when we were done fixing it, we sold it for what we paid for it and consider the two thousand dollars we put into it the fee for all the fun and lessons we learned on how to restore an old car.) If we don't like, we will sell and move on.

PS - For the condition you want on a 73 2L, you'll probably have to expand your budget, & keep in mind that both 73 & 74 have the same 95/91 HP GA 2.0 motor, but the 73's more often have both the Appearance & Performance Groups of options - which IMHO make them both look & drive better.

You can use the Hagarty site's valuation tool for your pricing - just change to 74 if needed -

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-2.0

Pretty much all early 73 2Ls up to about March had both AG+PG, & in 73 they went to all options as added cost due to DM escalation vs. dollar, so the base price stayed lower. The early `73 2Ls came fully loaded in order to overcome the 4-cylinder stigma over the switch from the 914-6 2L that was discontinued in 72 MY, I did a topic on here about the early 73 2L "914S" at the link below -

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=107851

Cheers!
Tom
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Good point about fun linkages of cars to movies and TV. The Lancia Fulvia Coupe like ours was featured in a British sci-fy adventure TV show called "Department S".
Department S
And like all Italian cars of the era, a brief background cameo in The Italian Job.


I looked up the 914 and while it is in the background of many TV shows (including one of my favorite car spotting shows - The Rockford Files), it wasn't a star on many:
914 in movies and tv

I'm a blue guy myself, but alas, my 914 wasn't blue when I got her in `75, & I'll be restoring her to the original L80E Light Ivory over Beige to be completely right.

The blue one at Gateway is near the top of the price range for a #1-2-ish car, but some have sold for more - it will all be up to how well the resto was done. I couldn't tell which location of theirs it's at, but they have an Atlanta location - so maybe they'll move it for you, or at least ship it to ATL on their dime or their transporter at their liability - rather than all being on you.

The other two are more in the center, being mid-20's range Hagerty is showing for #1-2 cars, & both are classic 70's jelly bean colors for 914s.

Use the Hagerty link in my last post, pick the best one for both of y'all & then negotiate one against the others.

But don't let your wife too much on the blue one to give away any preferences!

Also, that p914.com site has a colors section where you can click on the color silhouettes to see the color on actual 914s. Marathon Blue metallic & Olympic Blue were the other blue options in 73 MY.


Tom
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You might want to do a search here for Auto Atlanta so you are prepared for that visit ...


PS:

And look on evil-bay for some of their auctions. They have "interesting" ideas on what various words like "pristine" and "perfect" mean...

Their prices tend to be on the optimistic side for most things, as well.

--DD

Thanx for the movie links.

However, unless I missed it in the 4 pages of 30 movies & TV shows with 914s, they missed leading lady Valerie Bertonelli's L80E 914 in the late 80's or early 90's movie "C.H.O.M.P.S.", where the 914 is in several scenes throughout the movie (so 4-star by IMDb key).

I only know about it since my kids watched as pre-teens & ran to tell me they saw my car in the movie (it wasn't white then, as you can see in my avatar pic), & since the TV channels playing old movies now seem to be playing every few months today.


Tom
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Also look in the classifieds on here, at 914club.com (owned by Auto Atlanta), RennList & Pelican Parts' forums, as they'll get nice 914s listed all over.

And not everyone has a negative opinion of AA & George Hussey on here, as alluded to above. ;-)


Tom
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Following your link, that's a great color. Beware though, some of those online dealers don't even have the car. You say you'll buy it, they buy it and sell it to you.

Welcome!! You have a some nice cars there. I've always been a big fan of the Opel GT and almost pulled the trigger few times but could never find one that met my requirements for condition.

I bought my '73 2.0 about 2 1/2 years ago and LOVE it. Had never driven a 914 before I bought this one. So fun to drive! You will find that I'm one of those who focus on survivors and originality and was very fortunate to find a pristine survivor in Minnesota that I shipped here. We live in Atlanta and would be happy to show it to you. I'm in no way an expert on these cars like some folks here but I'm learning my way around them.

Also would recommend Jeff and Beal at Checkpoint Auto in Marietta if you need a PPI. I've taken my car to them several times. They came highly recommended and I've been very pleased. Beal is a 356 guy and has worked on air cooled cars for over 30 years. Jeff worked as a mechanic at Auto Atlanta for quite a few years before moving to Checkpoint and really knows 914's. They specialize in Porsche service and restoration.

As Tom says you will find strong opinions on Auto Atlanta. George is a quirky guy and many have strong opinions on him and his business. I personally have walked in and purchased a few things and took my 914 over for him to take a look at it when I bought it and he was very helpful in giving me his assessment of it.

I think you can likely get a very nice car for mid to high 20's. The issue is taking your time to find one in the best condition possible at your price point. There are some good cars around.

The gateway car does not look to me to be an original color. Otherwise looks pretty clean but as you say...pricey.

The Dick Barbour car looks to be missing the charcoal canister.

I personally would shy away from dealers but that's just my bias. I do know someone who purchased one, maybe two, cars from Dick Barbour and I'm sure he'd give you his opinion on his experience.

Steve

Thanks everyone for the replies. Just what I hoped for. Keep up the comments.

I'm very familiar with Hagerty and the valuation tool.

I'd like to avoid dealers, I've lurked here without joining looking over the classified and all the other obvious search locations. My timing may be a little off right now.

I've pretty much decided my budget will have to go more into mid 20's if necessary but like everyone, trying to save a buck to spend more on parts (or beer).

I agree with Tom on every matter except perhaps one and that is - I would not limit myself to '73 or '74 2L. cars. Let's face it, you don't buy one of these cars for the acceleration and no matter which stock engine is inside, you will not be impressed by it's 0-60 ET. Having driven bith 4's, there is a difference but not that significant. I mean, it's not like a 1970 Chevy Nova, one with a big block and the other with a straight six. Pit any one of them including the 6 up against my girlfriend's CR-V and you'll see nuthin' but tail lights. It's about driving dynamics and any 914 has it in spades or at least, can be made so. Would I rather have a 2.0L? Sure, but I would much rather have a 1.7L or 1.8L of any year that was physically and mechanically well taken care of and loved by it's owner than a 2.0 than was not.

Len,

I agree with you in general, & was only pointing out to the OP that the 74 2L was the same as motor, as in the 73 he was looking at.

As for the later 75-76 MY GC motored 2.0s - they got down powered very close to the 70-72 1.7L at 80 HP - especially in the Crapalytic equipped California smogged 75-76 2.0s - IIRC it was only 82-86 or so HP in CA Cat 2.0s, & at 88 HP GC 2.0 49 state.

For 1.7s I'd say the sweet spot is 72 MY cuz they added the dash vents, movable passenger seat, tightened up the tailshifter, & a few other improvements found on the 73> 914s.

The 1.8s were only in 74-75 MY & only had 76 HP (72 HP in CA with Cat IIRC) - so less than the 1.7 in all MYs except 73 MY, which dropped to 72 HP - & only 69 HP in CA fitment, so most folks stay away from them.

The 1.8 is a choice of the heavier big bumper 75s, or chrome/steel bumper 74 - so more a matter of personal preferences. I actually like the big bumper look on black & dark color 914s, plus they offer more impact protection - which I appreciate having had a geezer roll back into my 914 front bumper & bend it in within 2 weeks of my getting it in 75!

Yes, they're all go karts on the curves, & not dragsters.

That said, when I was looking for my 914 back in 1975, I did drive all MYs & flavors - even a 6 which was out of my budget - & I could notice the differences between the 6 & the 73-74 2.0s - vs. the 1.7s, 1.8s & 75-76 2.0s - & I passed on a couple of really nice new 76 2.0s in blue over the 3 year old 45K mi 73 2L which I bought in Dec 75. It wasn't cost, cuz my monthly payments on a new 76 2.0 100% financed for 5 years was about the same as 3 years max. on my used 73 2.0 80% - so new would've been easier payments with no down.

BTW - the /4 2.0 with more TQ down low RPMs was a better street car for me as my DD too, vs. the -6 which had to be wound out to much more RPM to get into the TQ band & 110 HP - so the 73 2.0 was the better DD in OC, LA & SoCal traffic for me.

Today, I agree that you find the best 914 you can afford of any flavor, but the OP seems set on a 2.0, & seems to have found a few nice ones out there - pending PPI.


Tom
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Great points. I'm not much on 0-60 (a Lancia 1.5 is not much off the line, quite frankly by modern standards, none of my old cars except the Elan are fast off the line). I'll consider more options.

I've temporarily put the blue one on hold. I spent some time on the phone with the consignment salesman. He understood my point that a car priced between Concours and Excellent had better have everything working and more documentation than just a form filled out by the seller. When I pointed out that I could not see the how the heater worked with the current exhaust, he told me they never tested it and he based his statement it worked on a checkbox on a form. When I challenged the 38k mileage he admitted while the odometer showed the number, the seller only indicated "unknown" on the form. They had never bothered with COA and he admitted they had received numerous requests for details on numbers matching, original color, and any records at all and that the seller refused to provide anything stating "the condition merits the price".

All that does not mean it is not a good car worthy of consideration but I'll just move it down the list until I learn more about the local cars.

The search shall continue. Y'all are right about condition being more important than specific features.

Drinkman -

I checked out your links and both cars seem to be in decent shape. The blue one does not look like an original color to me - look at the VIN sticker in the driver's door and in the perforated VIN numbers it appears to be yellow under the sticker. I only say that so you can assess it yourself to determine if it is a color change or not. I would want to call PCNA on both those cars, unless they come with a COA, to verify the original engine number, color, etc. When you are going to pony up top dollar for a car, you should know what the real information is.

On the blue car, I have a hard time looking at at because of that entirely stupid and poorly applied rear trunk stripe. What kind of idiot did that? It looks like Hopefully it is just vinyl and can be removed with no evidence if its existence. Aside from that, the body color valances and rockers do nothing for the look of that car.

Then on the orange car they have the Porsche emblems on the sail panels....really? Hopefully the are just installed with emblem tape and can be removed easily.

I am being a nit-picker, but the blue car appears to have had a cosmetic exterior refresh only as the engine, transaxle, etc., look as though they have not been touched. For my money, that is not a top dollar car- because of that.

The blue car has the Porsche reflector panel on it and I have never been fond of those. For my money it is working to hard to try to ID as a Porsche.

I would always prefer to buy from a private party, actual enthusiast/owner, and know all of the hidden issues than go to a dealer and just see lipstick on a pig. Be patient and thorough in your research. Better to know exactly what you are getting before it is parked in your garage. Michael

Good input. Yes, the rear trunk stripe is a vinyl and can be removed. It was on my list of questions.

I'm going to look closer at the orange car.

I'm also wanting to buy from a private party. I'll keep watching classifieds here and other places. And quite frankly, I've posted like this on other forums and pretty soon a PM arrives from a member wanting their car to go to a good home. And I'll give it a good home. (a secondary purpose for this thread....bait). I've bought 2 cars from consignment houses and one was lipstick on a pig that needed more than expected and the other was a very good car after going through a miserable buying experience and negotiation. All my others were private party.

Again, thanks for the welcome. Having fun in the hunt. Every "new" car has two exciting phases - the search and the discovery of ownership.

An excellent black '74 1.8 just sold over at 911S Registry. $18K, very solid car. PCA owned, well maintained.

They are still out there.

Like most car buying you tend to do better on price with private party sales.
The orange car is missing a few things (thresholds looks like is one). The way the pictures are taken tend not to show this. So rather than out the parts in they have taken the pictures to not highlight this. Even if this is not their intent to not have them shows they don't really know the car. For $1http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showforum=200 and some change for a car of this level just doesn't make sense.

There are a few for sale here in the classifieds, and occasionally they pop up in craigslist too, I missed out on a real 6 locally, still kicking myself.

And yes I'm a blue guy too!

A quick look at the cars and my quick opinion

The blue car is way overpriced IMHO. Non standard exhaust (and one I have never seen before) means no heat in this car. That and other clues (the personalized cosmetics, the over the top radio, the average looking mechanicals) make me see this car as possibly "screwed around with" by a PO. I think that is a $16000 car at best

The orange car seems a much nicer car, cosmetically and mechanically. Looks pretty solid to me, well maintained and cared for. Maybe just slightly overpriced as you would expect from a "dealer car"

Assuming I am looking at the same green car as you at AA, it s very hard to tell anything from the presented pictures. At that price you should be getting a pretty primo car. In general I can not believe AA would present so many cars with very few pictures of mechanicals!!!

Neither the blue car nor the green car appear to be of the quality to warrant the premium car prices being asked.

My current market perception is that you could expect to find good solid presentable drivers in the $10,000 range, above average in the $14000 range and premium cars in the 18 - 22 range. To me, only some special car (low mileage, exceptionally presented, special provenance, very original etc) warrant a price above that.

As you are aware, you will pay a premium at the dealers. I would be very comfortable looking at cars offered by individuals on this site and would expect to get much closer to "market value" as opposed to "high retail"

Actually, both the positive "PORSCHE" side stripe & the wacky trunk stripe were accessories sold back in the day at P+A dealers, but I always felt the trunk stripe looked stupid IMHO. You can see them at Jeff Bowlsby's site in the Accessories section.

The lack of info on the blue car is a flag to me, & the mileage is a "No F'ing Way" issue on any car with a 5-digit odometer, unless there is unbroken & complete documentation to prove unequivocally that it is as claimed - cuz there is no way to know how many times it has "turned over", nor that some enterprising flipper/seller/dealer hasn't hooked up a drill to the speedo cable running to a new mileage, opened the gauge & reset the dial, etc., etc. (resetting the new electronic odo's is possible too BTW).

I'm also not sure that the blue one is the correct Alaska Blue metallic color, or another repaint, & the stripe in white would look better.

Also, I didn't look at any detail at the pix, since in that price range you really need to see them in person.

As for the contention that private parties are necessarily better priced nor more trustworthy than dealers has not been my experience, & in some state you have legal protections with a dealer transaction, that you don't have in a private party sale (CA being one).

You have to be wary & on your toes in all cases.

We've been looking off-n-on for quite some time now for a 2008-14 Cayenne S (previously 20005-06 too), & I've found that the most overpriced cars are from the PP's who think that they can get Porsche dealer pricing with a Porsche CPO - for their cars with or without any kind of remaining new/P-CPO warranty & the legal protections. The PP's tend to look at the values at NADA & KBB etc., assume their care is Excellent/#1 & list at top prices, & then they sit for months as the values drop (most cars are depreciating assets, after all).

I often see that with PP's in 914s & other classic cars too, but that market tends to have more knowledgeable buyers & sellers, so not as often.

The next most overpriced are certain Porsche dealers & those which (allegedly) specialize in luxury & sports/exotics - especially those in high income neighborhoods/towns. Rusnak (Thousand Jokes & Pass-adena), Beverly Hills & Newport Porsche dealerships are notorious around SoCal/LA/OC area for this BS, as is CarMax anywhere.

Bottom line - everything is negotiable - so find the car you like, research the value & condition issues, set your limit on that car, then bargain like you're in a local swap meet!
.... & be ready to walk away, since that's often the ultimate deal maker, or savior of big dollar mistakes!

BTW Drinkman - there seem to be a few other nice 73-74 2.0s - as well as other 914s - out there right now worth further perusal. Plus you can probably find someone on here in just about any area to do a preliminary PPI look-see for you, if you find one far afield, to determine if it's worth a further consideration & full shop/pro PPI & look-see by you. Just do a new post &/or in here where it is & request PPI help.


Tom
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PS - I realized I didn't do any kind of link above for that C.H.O.M.P.S. movie with the white/light ivory 914 as the lead Valerie Bertonelli's car in several scenes, so here is one, & there are several U-tubers out there of trailers & scenes, but I'm not going to search them all.

It's not a great movie, as you can tell from the link below, but it does feature a 914 in scenes throughout the movie, & perhaps the or one of the most featured 914s in any movie.

If you watch it all the way through, then you'll notice in one or more scenes that they could've used one of Mark/Mikey914/914Rubber's rear bumper top pads on it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078924/

videos -
https://www.google.com/search?q=C.H.O.M.P.S...280&bih=542

914 scene about 0:0:20 -
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&a...148073327,d.bGs


Tom
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