Hi Everyone,

I'm new to 914's and looking to start a GT project at some point. Right now, I want to learn as much as I can before I go down the path.

Over the past few days, I've seen the following two 914-6 GT Tribute cars for sale. They both seem to be equally great cars, and I'm trying to figure out which is the "better" car....

1975 914-6 GT Tribute

1970 914-6 GT Tribute

Based on my limited experience, the fact that the blue car's chassis is an original 914-6 and it has a 3.0 liter engine makes it more desirable. Also, the color...Mexico Blue is one of my favorites.

I know many aspects of what makes a car "better" is subjective, but I just wanted to start a discussion and get different perspectives from those who are more experienced so I can fill in my knowledge gaps.

Looking forward to hearing different viewpoints...thanks!

I do not think you can go wrong either way...the 2.0 in the white car would be quite a bit off the 3.0 cars performance. Enjoy whatever you end up with...

Tony

A factory Six adds 26000, I just sold one needing complete restoration , non running, for that number.. In one day

too bad the Blue car doesnt have a front oil cooler..

Tony, exactly what I was thinking. The 2.0 in the white car is an original 914-6 engine. Does that add any appeal, or is it all about the performance?



Wow, $26k, that's an amazing figure! Was it matching numbers or chassis only?

Blue car definitely needs a front oil cooler.

Are you making an investment or do you want a car to drive? If it's for the driving pleasure, do you want old school (carbs) or more of a retro mod? Do you want to spend time making improvements? Makes a big difference in what's right for you

Much as I like the white car—and that's a lot....

A "GT" on a real 914-6 chassis > a "GT" on a 1975 914-4.

The white car looks to be very well done, but so does the blue car. Front spoiler aside, I like the presentation and details of the white car better. But, put the blue car on similar 15-inch wheels, paint the gauge surrounds back to black, consider some more aggressive seats, etc. and it would be very bit as visually appealing as the white car—with a stronger engine and its own advantages. And that Parade Prep award suggests the car stands up to some pretty serious scrutiny. The pic with Wolfgang ain't bad, either. Doesn't necessarily "do it" for me, but it's another piece of the car's story.

If the gap between these is, say, $25k, the blue car is a very, very good buy. It is one of very few sixes by comparison to all the fours, and always will be.

Did I miss something or is it strange that a real six would have side vents on the dash.

First off, the 75 car will never be a real 6 vin number. In real estate location is the most important thing, in 914s they are not making any more 6s and with 4s there are a lot of them. As an investment the real 6 is the better bet right off.

The quality of the build is hard to really see on just a few photos but the real 6 won 914-6 Gt Tribute Winner Porsche National Concourse so it must be decent. I think that car is a deal. Now you would spend the $50,000 to build a 4 to a tribute car but I think the gap of money will widen over the next 10 years between a real 6 or not. But that is just my guess. If you are going to steep up with the cash you better take your best guess. Olympic Blue is not a color that the car came with in 1970. People will tell you to paint the car the same color as it came from production in. Not sure if you will take a ding in that later but if you dive the car and enjoy it not sure it will matter. Also just because the 75 car has a 6 engine it is not worth as much as a 3.0 in a non-6 car. This will be the case I believe from now on.

Sixnotfour is right Blue car definitely needs a front oil cooler.
You need to get all the info on that blue car and we may have not seen it. Post it here so we can look at it.

Bob B

Thanks everyone for your input, please keep it coming!



I've been down the garage queen road, and it's not for me. The cool factor of owning a pristine, low mileage wore off pretty quickly. I hated the paranoid feeling of de-valuing the car every time I drove it...putting on miles, getting into an accident, etc,...

Without a doubt, I want a car to drive! I know it's a higher price point, but coming from later air cooled 911's, I'd prefer a 3.2...but I also appreciate the old school visceral experience of carbs.



Thanks for your thoughts...every point you make is in line with my thought process.



I don't have enough knowledge to know. Does anyone know the answer to this?

I see the white car landing on a number north of $55K before the auction ends. It is a conversion and in the end, the real six will always be worth more. Both are very well done. The white car could use a GT front valence. If you are truly in the market, reach a little deeper and get the six. With probably less than 2000 of them left, I think the value still has some growing room.

Makes complete sense. I agree on all points. Here's more info on the blue car...

FOR SALE:1970 914-6 GT #9140432390

Acquired 2006 and underwent a 2 ½ year full restoration and conversion to GT specifications. Mileage: 6,150 since completion in Oct. 2008 GT alterations: Front oil cooler , Boxed trailing arms, chassis stiffening plates installed, metal factory wheel flares, flared valances and rocker panels, light weight front and rear bumpers and valances, GT engine cover. The original steel front and rear decklids were retained as well as the removable top and headlamp motors.

Acquired 2006 and underwent a 2 ½ year full restoration and conversion to GT specifications. Mileage: 6,150 since completion in Oct. 2008
GT alterations:
Front oil cooler , Boxed trailing arms, chassis stiffening plates installed, metal factory wheel flares, flared valances and rocker panels, light weight front and rear bumpers and valances, GT engine cover. The original steel front and rear decklids were retained as well as the removable top and headlamp motors.

Features: -3.0 liter 1978 SC engine converted to triple weber carburation, recurved distributor, ported manifolds and heads, top-end rebuild and reseal by Werkstat Porsche Service, stainless steel headers with heat exchangers, new clutch, turbo valve covers, hydraulic chain tensioners. Dyno’d at 210 hp, 216 torque

-914 side shifter transmission, rebuilt German Transaxle of America
-Fuchs Wheels – 7x16 front, 9x16 rear
-Ventilated, drilled brake rotors with aluminum ͞S͟ calipers front, ͞M͟ 911 calipers rear. Hand brake currently not installed, but parts included.
-89 Carrera front suspension and steering -Bilstein struts and shocks with 140# rear springs
-GTS vintage racing seats in black leather with paint-matching plaid inserts, 5 point Schroth harnesses.
-Black full leather RS-style interior
-Mexico Blue single stage enamel paint (Porsche code 336)
-Black out trim and mirrors

HISTORY: Early history is unknown. This original ͞6͟ had been dismantled and the bare metal chassis and boxes of parts were purchased on a Bill of Sale in California in 2006 and shipped to my home in Oregon. Following the 2 ½ year restoration to a street-able 914-6 GT tribute since a previous title could not be located by the Oregon or California DMV, it was issued an Oregon ͞Reconstructed͟ Title and vintage 1970 license plate with a ͞Special Interest͟ tag.

The car has been shown in many local and regional car shows. It also participated in approximately 10 PCA Drivers Education events and Track Days. It has been only used for touring the past 2 years. The car was entered in the PCA Parade Concours d’Elegance in Spokane in July, 2017. The car was in the ͞Preparation͟group, ͞Full͟ class (PP02F). Approximately 300 hours were put into cleaning, restoring, and freshening the car prior to the Parade.

This stunning car won the Blue Ribbon for Best in Class, receiving 294 out of 300 possible points. It was then re-judged by a second panel of 6 judges against all the other Blue Ribbon ͞Full Preparation͟ cars and was selected ͞Best of the Best͟, winning the 1st Place award in the Preparation category.The only 914-6 to ever win this award! Dr. Wolfgang Porsche, Chairman Porsche AG, offered his congratulations with a photo at the Concours Awards Banquet where the car was displayed.

The sale includes many boxes of original and spare parts that can be utilized if desired. Inventory available.

Also available is an original 914-6 engine (not the engine number that originally came with the car per the COA), incomplete, disassembled. Inquire.

A real six will always be worth more simply becuase of vin.. I like the white one allot but if I were in similar situation to you I would be buying a real 6.

Appreciate your input...seems to be the consensus here. I am definitely in the market, but, oh man, that reach for a six is a big one! I do definitely see the value in it though.

Thank you! It looks like that's the road I want to take.

Which state are you in? I could be incorrect but the '75 might give you some issues with registration/smog...anyone?

T

Not in LA. Smog tests start in '76...

Yeah, but what do you know about smog testing???

T

Haha! Almost nothing. My smog tech handles that. I make the bank deposits, pay the bills and put the rest in my SEP IRA...

I have a real six - narrow body with a 2.4 hot rod motor. It is a very solid car in good driver condition (mechanically nearly perfect) everything works. It runs and drives very nicely. Cosmetically it is a 10 footer. I drive it routinely mostly because I love and appreciate the classic characteristics of the experience that put Porsche on the map - visceral carbed motor attached to a drivers chassis. I am comfortable doing that partly because it is not a collector level car.

If I were to build or buy a GT clone for driving, I would start with a four. As evidenced by the BAT car, the economics are starting to make some sense and when you are done, you can drive it without fear of devaluing a dwindling asset.

If you are a collector or want to play in that arena, then start with or buy a six based car. I would have some trepidation about turning a narrow body car to an M471, but that is a personal conundrum. If I was buying one already done wide body, then no hesitation.

Obviously it is a very personal matter that is influenced by your personal values, intended use and finances. Either way you better be doing it for some intrinsic appreciation of these cars that will make it worthwhile for you

Very well stated. I'm with you...I couldn't cut up a 6 and turn it into a wide body, but I could definitely buy one that's already been done...given a car and price that works for me.

They say:---- “Ventilated, drilled brake rotors with aluminum ͞S͟ calipers front, ͞M͟ 911 calipers rear. Hand brake currently not installed, but parts included.”----

This I do not 100% get. The real deal would have been to use the early aluminum S brakes up front like they did back then. In the back you should have the 914-6 Calipers with the spacers and ventilated set up like I have in my 6. At a minimum you should have e brakes from an early 911. I have that for my V8 car. You need E Brakes in the back.

Maybe I have this wrong and someone with respond to it but you want to get the e brakes to work.

Also the paperwork on the Car.


------“Following the 2 ½ year restoration to a street-able 914-6 GT tribute since a previous title could not be located by the Oregon or California DMV, it was issued an Oregon ͞Reconstructed͟ Title and vintage 1970 license plate with a ͞Special Interest͟ tag.”-------

Not sure I understand this. Odd registration may make it harder to sell at a later date. I always look to how I will sell something when I buy it. What will you get from California?

Can you get a clear Pink Slip here in CA. With land you do a title search and there is insurance to cover any legal on the property as far as clear title goes. This may be an issue on big buck cars in the further. I have heard stories on people having to give cars back to an old owner because a car was stolen. Not saying this is the case, just bringing up a point of clear title on classic cars. There is a value on a very clear title with a Pink.

Points on cars in general.



Bob B

I don't see a vent in the center of the top of the dash. Add in the title issues and something is starting to sound suspicious.

The odd registration does make me hesitate. The Oregon Reconstructed Title is equivalent to a salvage title. This might give me enough pause to make me walk away. Does anyone else agree?

Also, why would the e-brakes not be installed?

I own a real 6 since 1983. All stock except for easily changed parts.
I'm in the middle of doing a light ivory 3.0 conversion GT on a '75 chassis.
A conversion is where the fun is for the future.
I can pervert it any way I want with no consequences.
As for the real car, I loved it when it wasn't worth much.
I love it even more today and it has nothing to do with the cash.
You'll have more fun for less money and less stress in the conversion.
Plus...the real 6 for sale here will never be full value because it does not include
its original engine.

I'm not sure what you mean about the vent b/c of my knowledge level...assuming it's something inherent to 6's? The title issue is surely a red flag.

The conversion car will be easier to drive without as much worry. The structure should be a little stronger (crash beams in the doors, etc.) and you don't have to worry about taking a rare car out of circulation if someone who isn't paying attention runs into it.

--DD

Early vs late thing. All sixes were early, with the last being '72 models...

There is something to be said about driving a car around with no worries!

Thanks for the info! Does this mean it's not a 6 after all?

It means there is more to the story. Not sure what it is just yet. But a late dash in an early car is strange. Especially in a 6.

Reconstructed title plus late dash in an early chassis = more scrutiny is required.

Could be just fine, or it could be multiple 914s turned into one. The car does seems like a bit of a deal in light of some other recent 914-6 sales in the $100,000 range—though it is a hot rod and therefore in its own space.

Here....I'll piss on the ant pile.

In my mind, neither of these cars is a 914-6 GT replica, clone, tribute or what ever you want to call it.

To me, they are more like 914 hotrods....R Gruppe cars if you will.

914-6 GT were all race cars.
So they came with roll cages, lightweight bonnets, stripped out interiors, race suspensions, etc, etc.
I think a 2.0 or 2.5 engine making over 200hp was normal on these.

Couple of pics for examples:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

So just slapping on a set of "GT" flares doesn't really make the car a GT replica/tribute.
A stock 2 liter engine making 110hp? doesn't seem too GT-ish to me?
The 3 liter certainly makes more power, but again isn't part of the GT formula.

I think that if you like the looks and feel of these two cars, what you're after is a nice 914-6 hotrod/R Gruppe style car.

So there's my take.
Are these two cars GT replica/clone/tribute cars?....not even close in my mind.
Real GT cars have so many interesting and unique details that are specialized for their particular purpose.

Now don't get me wrong, they are both nice and well thought out cars.
The white one needs some more beans (HP), ditch the megaphones and ugly front spoiler, and it would be a fun hotrod 914-6.
The blue car only needs to lose the blue dash and a couple other minor details to be a very nice R Gruppe style 914-6.

With the prices of real 914-6's skyrocketing, I would be cautious in doing anything that wasn't factory stock to an authentic 914-6.
With most 914-4's, you really don't have to worry about their appreciation potential as much, so the sky's the limit in mods.

PS.... 1972 914-6's had the ignition switch on the steering column as far as I know. That's one really makes that year unique.

Thank you guys!


Thanks for the info...it's really important to understand the terminology and the differences between each.

Very well put.

Bob B

914-6 Number 41. A true VW HotRod

That is true. And a stark visual difference. But for me, the 1972 - 6 is most unique due to the fact that out of 3318 914-6 cars, only 229 were made for 1972. Rarist of the rare...

The early four's also had the vent, I believe, so it has nothing to do relative to being a six or not...I am not a purist or original freak so I might be fuzzy on detail.

T

Right. I'm saying that there seems to be something off about this car. It has a late dash & sub dash on a 6. That's not something most people do to their 6, especially a "GT tribute", It was either reworked or it's a late chassis (73-76) with a 6 vin.
God knows it wouldn't be the first time.

I hear you Mark but the OP kept asking about that detail referencing an early Six...like it was ONLY a Six feature.

T

My mistake.

In fact, instead of calling these two cars GT clone, replica or tribute.
I would call them 914-6 M471 clone, replica or tribute.

They are much closer to the M471 option than a true GT racer.

I agree that M471 is the closest to accurate for most street flared 914/6 conversions but this term really means nothing to most of the general public and Porsche people.
People seem to understand the GT term a bit better even if it's not as accurate.

I refer to my car as both depending on who I am speaking with.

All,

I just want to thank everyone again for the comments, opinions, and information. I learned so much just from yesterday alone. This is a great place, and I'm looking forward to finding the right car for me and joining the fold!

Instead of creating a new thread, but still staying on topic, can I get your opinions on this car? Seems to be a good driver. The owner is a forum member.

1970 914-6 For Sale

Thanks again!

I don't like the flares but that would be a decent price even if the car had started out as a 4. He has a lot into that car. Add GT flares and you are good to go.

Thanks mepstein! Not a big fan of the flares either. Wonder why it hasn't sold? At least it hasn't been posted as sold.

I see you want a car to drive and not a garage queen, but have you ever driven any 914's? Long thread, perhaps I missed it.

If so, what engines, narrow and wide bodies? Since you are coming from the late air-cooled 911 community and looking for something more visceral, in my opinion a nicely done 2056 or 2258 with suspension upgrades makes for a wonderful driving experience.

If you haven't thought about this aspect, you might want to check out this article:

http://fatperformance.com/home/?p=681

But if you are set on a wide-body 6, go for a 4 conversion for less money than a modified original 6, in my opinion.

I concur and am tired of seeing every car with flares called a GT.

I looked at the restoration pix and the chassis is an early one. I am guessing that the side vents connect to nothing???
Click to view attachment

I think that ship has already sailed. Only a few people know what an M471 car is. Just like a 491 Carrera, Turbo look is how most people know them.

If I mentioned to my wife that I wanted a 471 car, she might guess BMW. It would then involve a long conversation, her eyes would glaze over and the dog would start farting.

Well then it's settled. Its just strange to use a later sub dash in a 6.

The car also has the later window mechanisms in the doors as well.
Plus movable passenger seat.
On, and on, and on.
So many later 914 items on this real 914-6.
Makes you wonder how many other non original 914-6 things are on this car????

Thanks for you input and the link! Yes, I've driven a few 914's, the latest being this one that's for sale in my area...

1973 914-6 Hot Rod

Really good car, very visceral, but there were some things that didn't quite do it for me. Ideally, I'd like bigger displacement (3.2), but I'm open to other options.


LMAO!!