Hi All,

I've been lurking around for a while now and felt it's time to get off my A$$ and put a teener back into my life. I went and rolled my last project car out of my ma's garage, a 1974 2.0 914. It has some rust issues in the rear trunk and the PO had some crappy repairs done to it, but I'm not complaining. This car has been sitting for over 10 years in my ma's garage. This would be my second rotary 914. The first rotary 914 I ever had was over 10 years ago, and it survived stop and go traffic and a vacation to SF california, I live in LA. It was my daily driver to my first "real" job for 3 years. But 3 years of daily driving really took it's toll on my poor 914 and lack of parking forced me to send it to the autobahn in the sky. I kept all the parts and I'm starting the project again.

That's the engine attached to the transmission in the lower left of the previous pic.
Here's one of the bare engine attached to the trans.

another

another with a pic attached,,

a mock up of my cooling set up, similiar to the one I had on the previous car

put one of these in there for more funpetal!

A turbo II engine would be fun, but I would need a good place to put the intercooler. I gotta get a look at scott thatcher's radiator set up, so I can see where to mound an intercooler back there. My engine is a 13B streetport. It puts out close to 220 HP conservatively with no turbo, which is more HP than the TII motor puts out with stock turbo. I don't have to worry about detonation and I can rev all day to 8K and the engine wouldn't mind.

Hi Robert,
Glad to see another rotary 914. I am a newbie here in the forum as well. Reading the build threads really motivated me to start on my project again. As a matter of fact I just registered my 74 last friday. My 914 has been in storage/work in progress for the last 14 years. Hey how appropriate timing to get off but to get her going again ! I will find some time to post some pics of my project too.

Ted

They look so tiny and light! I'd like to do a rotary swap, but I want a pair of them.
-Ben M.

They are light until you fill them with water. They are also freakin hot! The exhaust will be a problem.

Awesome! Good to see another rotary being installed in a 914. Oddly enough we just rebuilt a friends T2 motor today and will be installing it next weekend into it's home - the front of a 10th Anniversary RX7. He made 370 rwhp (TD07 turbo, stand alone, etc.) with an engine that made only 70 psi compression. We curious to see how he does with this one after some tuning.

Here's a pic of the "beer keg"

I can't wait to tear apart this:

To put into this:

But first I have get the Vitesse Stage III Turbo installed into this:

Sorry to pollute your thread....I just couldn't resist. It's great to see someone making progress on a rotary transplant. What are you doing for an oil cooler? How do you plan to mount your engine? Do you have pictures? Please? Pretty please?

I know what you mean about the longevity of the non turbo rotary. If I don't go turbo on my 3 rotor install I might go peripheral port instead. I've been told that 450 rwhp is attainable with a peripheral port 3 rotor. How much more is needed? Instant throttle response, no worries about detonation, no worries about where to mount the intercooler. I know exactly why you went non turbo - a lot less to worry about. Keep going....the rest of us can't wait.

One other thing, what starter are you using? I know that the rotary needs higher start rpm to get going.

Hi soloracer,,

I am using a regular 914 starter. I thought I would need a faster starter, but the stock one was good enough for my 2 rotor engine. I'm not sure about your 3 rotor project, but I would try the stock one first and see. On my engine, the starter spins pretty fast, I would compare it to a stock mazda starter in terms of engine RPM during starting.

I have 2 oil coolers, one is mounted in the front like some 6 cylinder conversions, and the other oil cooler is a water/oil cooler that replaces the original oil filter neck. My water/oil cooler is off an '84-'85 12A powered RX-7, those models didn't have front oil coolers. You need to do some minor re-routing of your oil lines to get both oil coolers to work. You can see the later oil cooler in some of my pics.

When installing my rotary engine, I found out that there's no cutting of the rear trunk required at all. The oil filter fits perfectly underneath the latch that holds the engine lid. The engine fits very well in the engine compartment.

I found that mounting a rotary engine in a 914 is much easier if you can use the rotary engine's early front cover '74-'85 all engines. There are 4 bosses that the factory engine mount bolted to, it's MUCH more easy to adapt this to the 914.

For your 3 rotor engine, I would get the early front cover and make an oilpan from 2 early oil pans. I would NOT reccomend using a P-port engine if you plan on using your car on the street. Idling at 2k+ with a real loud exhaust system will only get you dirty looks. How much HP will be enough for you?

(more pics when I get home)

Good day all. Just wanted to chime in here for a moment. You can get 700+ HP from a P-port turbo charged rotary and it’s not loud due to the muffling effect of the turbo. I have done this and the car is still being driven as a summer time only daily driver. My second project currently on the way is a 911 with a turbocharged rotary stand alone FI system. Motor put out a whapping 540 HP at 16 psi. Reached my 500 HP goal. I will be looking for soloracer and his 3 rotor when I am done. Sorry to hijack your thread but is a special occasion to here about your current project. We will all be watching for your progress reports with great enthusiasm. Best of luck.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

you guys rock
I had a 72 RX2 that I did for Rally...
I challanged anyone to a 1rst gear race....

Its just the noise...I ran a header with no cat and on any other downshift, 3 feet of flame....what you gonna do?, not critisism, just curiousity.

Its been a few years since I was tunning rotors, good times.

Later
Joe

I'm glad there are some people here who know something about doc Wankel's invention. And I'm not the only one.

Paul, I didn't think about the turbo acting as a muffler too. 700 HP is a lot to handle, what kind of chassis is it in? a 914?

I'm a little behind the times when it comes to how well modern aftermarket EFI can control turbo motors.
But I'm catching up, I put together my MegaSquirt, and all I gotta do now is get it to start my street port.

Here are a couple of pics, I managed to find my header, I plan on having it ceramic coated after I bead blast it.

another,
There's going to be a pre-silencer and muffler running behind the transmission.

Yeah, I know the trans is dirty and yucky.

Here's how I ran the cooling lines, I know others have run it in tubes under the car, but I had other ideas,,,

forgot pic again!

one more of back

I mounted my engine differently. I made a bar that uses the N/A 13B intermediate plate mounting locations. The engine sits on the bar, so I had to make this oilpan with the sump kicked out towards the front of the engine.

Where is the motor, and what is that thing on the end of the transaxle?


M

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It does look like an extension of the trans, other people have also asked me "where is the motor?"

mahalo Brett,,

In your pic, I'm having a hard time visualising how the engine attaches to the oil pan,, do you have any problems with shift linkage? Let's see some pics of your car if you have any around?

Hey robert,

I got a custom 13b motormount I made (for use with front cover mount like yours) and a Kennedy engineering pressure plate and 6 puck clutch for sale. I was running a 13b-rew with a single turbo setup on mines. I also have a custom 3" downpipe if you decide to run turbo. good luck with your project!


abacus74@yahoo.com

I have seen pictures of your car. Real nice. What happend to it? Is is still alive?

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

RE: I have seen pictures of your car. Real nice. What happend to it? Is is still alive?

Regards,

Turbo Paul.


I blew an oil cooler line and fried the motor . I was getting lazy and bored to rebuild the motor, I decided to sell everything and go with a 350 chevy crate motor conversion which is almost complete. I loved the smooth power of the turbo rotory motor, but was always curious about the Chevy small blocks. My 13b (two rotor Cosmo) motor was pushing about 365rwhp with a single garret t04 turbo, a standalone Microtech LT8 ecu, 3" exhaust. My chevy crate motor is a 330hp out of the box so I hope the same thrill is there. My brother in-law has a 993 turbo look also powered with a 13b turbo. I will try to get him to come out to one of the 914 meets with me one day. Once you drive a 914 with a 200+ hp motor, your "porsche purest" attitude is out the window, wouldn't you say.

Here's another pic of the 993 13b (can you believe this car started out as a 1973 911!). BTW, my 914 may now be powered by a chevy small block, but I still have fun with turbo 13b first gen Mazda rx7. Go Wankel!

and another 914 shot

okay last pic, Sorry for hoggin Robert...............but pics are always gooooooooooooood!

That previous picture of my oil pan is when it was only half finished. I just put the engine/trans back into the car last week and found that I will have to cut off a little from the front corner of the oil pan to clear the shift linkage... but other than that things fit ok. My lasting concerns about the oil pan are whether or not it will restrict drainage from the flywheel end of the engine... because it is a flat plate until it drops into the sump just past the motor mount. I know my car looks like Junk but I think it will be strong (hopefully not too heavey) and look much better when It is finished.

I have already purchased everything for my cooling system... I am hoping it will be sufficient. I made a pipe thread adapter for the water outlet and will use 16 AN fittings throughout the system. Right after exitiing the engine I plan to have a surge tank with a filler, a thermostat and bypasses built into it. I am runing 1" aluminum tubes throught my center tunel to the front where I will have a 2 row double pass radiator. My primary electric coolant pump will be just before the return to the engine, I will wait to see if I need a second pump.

More lately I have been planning the fuel injection system, and thinking about power output goals (200-300 hp would be nice, anybody have hp and torque curves for N/A 13B?). I think I will probably use an aftermarket EMS (give me some recomendations on which one to use). I am also looking into supercharging the N/A engine. Once I figure out what my output will be I want to think about my gearing (I have already decided to use the 901 and nothing else)

Here's a pic of my 13 motor mount. The best way to clear the shift linkage is to cut the a middle section of the shift linkage rod and move it over and reweld it using 1/4 " thick metal plates between the relocated sections. This works great because you can use the factory pan and the metal plates will lengthen the shift rod 1/2" or so to compensate for the added length of the tranny/engine adapter plate. Bret , make sure to lengthen your shift linkage rod to correct the shifting geometry.

motor mount

Yes, pictures are always good. And you surly have some great pictures. I am also working on a 993 look alike turbo rotary 911 transplant and 914 turbo v8 transplant, but I will not post pictures here as I don’t want to hijack this thread. Will start a new thread at a later date.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

You guys are NOT hijacking my thread! I like the input that is happening, and like paul said,, "pics are always good"

lybones,, I saw a pic of your car on some guy's website and that really made me want a rotary 914 again. I love your car's look. It seems when a 13B powered Porsche dies, it comes back as a V8,,
Where did you mount your intercooler? and how much boost were you running?

bret,, You have one major racecar project there bro.

Doesn't the Subie engine conversion seems pretty wicked too? Lotsa power there,,

I should be putting the engine in this weekend,, so others will soon be able to see my engine bay with 13B power in it. I want a running 914 by October,, so I can cruise to Seven Stock 8, the worlds largest gathering of the rotary faithful.

QUOTE (redshift @ May 25 2005, 12:57 AM)

Where is the motor, and what is that thing on the end of the transaxle? M

Sad thing is that the "thing" on the end of that transaxle will make more power than the Type IV.

QUOTE (Rotary'14 @ May 26 2005, 01:02 PM)

You guys are NOT hijacking my thread!  I like the input that is happening, and like paul said,,  "pics are always good" lybones,,  I saw a pic of your car on some guy's website and that really made me want a rotary 914 again.  I love your car's look.  It seems when a 13B powered Porsche dies, it comes back as a V8,,   Where did you mount your intercooler? and how much boost were you running? bret,, You have one major racecar project there bro.   Doesn't the Subie engine conversion seems pretty wicked too?  Lotsa power there,, I should be putting the engine in this weekend,, so others will soon be able to see my engine bay with 13B power in it.  I want a running 914 by October,, so I can cruise to Seven Stock 8, the worlds largest gathering of the rotary faithful.

My intercooler sat face forward just in front of the brake proportioning valve. I created an air scoop that picked up air under the car forcing it back. It worked great. I was boosting 14psi. Intake temp was reading 32 celcius most of the time which was 89-90 degrees f. The engine bay looked clean. I remember the first time I heard the blow off valve "whishing" out from behind me instead of up front. Awesome! I don't how your N/A motor is going to sound. What I did was squeezed a 14" and a 18" dynomax race 3" muffler under the car which made it sound quiet like a stock Honda (except on boost, ofcourse). A quiet car is best for music listening and unsuspecting passengers

Yeah Bret,

Your car looks quite solid. That's going to be one head turner when it's done. Hopefully, it stays under 3000 lbs. Power to weight ratio is Key.

Rotary'14,
You had a rotary engine in a 914 quite a long time ago... who is the first person that ever tried it, was it you?

You already have a Megasquirt EMS? I want to decide which EMS to use for my car. I need some information on the topic. I also want to find out if a intercooled supercharger setup would work with the N/A, I know there is a lot of controversy about detination with the higher compression... but the N/A compression ratio 9.4:1 doesn't seem that different than the later turbo 9.0:1 . I might just try it if I can afford to buy a P1SC procharger. Everybody says just buy a turbo motor if you want to have a boost... but I am thinking that the N/A manifolds and porting might be well suited to supercharging.

I plan to have my oil cooler in the drivers side wheel well, and possibly an intercooler on the passerger side. I don't want to change 914 GT look too much by making huge air inlet ducts right infront of the rear wheel flares... so plan to make them discreet, some how. Maybe with a grill, or just louvering. Any body have experience with this? Rocks and debris must kick up in there so what? make a wire mesh guard?

I was planning on tilting my radiator forwards like the rx-7 and then exit the hot air right out the hood.

Anybody buy complete 7" and 9" fenders and quarter panels? I did. I forgot if I bought them from AIR or where else. I'm not impressed with the finish around the edges... looks like they were cut by hand with a hacksaw. They are pretty light weight too, I think they would need exessive braceing. I plan to make my own copies of them. Maybe a one peice front and rear. That adds at least 6 months to my project, more likely a year.



I don't think the shift linkage length will be an issue for my car because my center tunnel an fire wall are all reconstructed. I am actually placing the shifter in a new location, it is a little higher up. I can still play with the left and right and forwards and backwards possition. I hope I haven't compermised the shifting, but things can allways be cut and welded later.

Shoots...then. I have the day off so I hope to do some work on the car.
GOod luck everybody

QUOTE

Rotary'14, You had a rotary engine in a 914 quite a long time ago... who is the first person that ever tried it, was it you

1st Rotary 914 that has been documented was done in 1970

read all about it here :

Rotary in a 914...1st 914 engine conversion????

You don’t have to worry about turbo charging or supercharging a non-turbo rotary engine. It works just about the same. Just remember that the rotaries like lots of fuel. You will however be limited in the total amount of boost that you can safely run. The big advantage to using a turbo motor is bigger injectors, harden stationary gears, slightly lower compression rotors and bigger throttle bodies and intake. If your intend on keeping the stock configuration. FYI there is available very low compression rotor in the range of 7 to 1 and 8 to 1. I had a set of the 7 to 1 ratios. What a kick in the pants when the boost comes on. Total madness. No traction in any gear. Then there are the issues regarding the 3mm ceramic apex seals and the 3 and 4 rotor. Don’t get me started; I can go on and on and on.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

Hi lybones (Tom)

I too was impressed by your yellow 914. Could you please post some closer pic of the front end of your yellow 914, particularly the opening for the radiator. I like how you did not have to cut into your chrome bumper, very clean look. Also if you be so kind, some photos of your raditor in your front trunk.

Thanks in Advance
Ted

Fellow rotary 914 bro

QUOTE

want to decide which EMS to use for my car. I need some information on the topic

I'll have to find his e-mail address again, but there is a fellow 914/rotary motor guy down near New Orleans I believe...he is running a Haltec, I meet him on the yahoo groups for Haltec.

I know there are a lot of Haltecs being run on rotaries....

I am running Haltech on my rotary, what would you like to know? Easy to set up and tune on the fly. Makes gobs of power. Very user friendly.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

Turbo914V8,

Which model Haltech? What stock sensors did you use and what did you replace?

If you are looking to go with a Haltech on a rotary the best choice would be the E6X or E6K. The E6K is the earlier model and is no longer sold new (the E6X replaced it) but it can be found used. It's reliable and proven to work well with the 2 rotor engine. Plus there is a lot of support for it on a rotary. (maps,etc.)

I purchased an E11 for my 3 rotor as I needed the ability to run the split timing on the 3 rotor (the E6 series only runs the split timing on a 2 rotor). The E11 will also run the 2 rotor but would be overkill.

These guys in Canada have good pricing on the Haltech units:

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/engine_management.htm

I believe the quoted prices are in Canadian pesos.

QUOTE (porsche913b_sp @ May 27 2005, 11:42 AM)

Hi lybones (Tom) I too was impressed by your yellow 914. Could you please post some closer pic of the front end of your yellow 914, particularly the opening for the radiator. I like how you did not have to cut into your chrome bumper, very clean look. Also if you be so kind, some photos of your raditor in your front trunk. Thanks in Advance Ted Fellow rotary 914 bro

Ted,

My car is currently under the knife again. so I will have to take new pics. I actually swapped out that front chrome bumber with a fiberglass one. I originally cut a large horizontal slit on the front valance to avoid the hole on the chrome bumper. But it just was not adequate enough to cool the car. I know they make nice front spoilers that has a scooped opening now. My v8 swap is almost complete. Here's a more current pic of the car.

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 27 2005, 11:47 AM)

want to decide which EMS to use for my car. I need some information on the topic

The ECU's from PerfectPower are inexpensive and configured to run on rotaries as well (2-rotor only, I believe). My MIC3 ECU (PerfectPower) has a rotary mode. You just pick it as an option in the software and go. This discussion is very interesting. I am once again distracted in my quest for a replacement powerplant. Scooby turbo? Rotary turbo? Six? Six turbo? 928v8? sigh...

-Ben M.