I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but bear with me a bit.

Some of you may understand my background here. For several decades, my hobby has been to rescue and refurbish long mothballed old sports cars. In this venture I’ve been rather brand-agnostic. I’ve done old British cars, Italian cars, Japanese cars as well as German. Just recently, I completed and sold a refreshed 914, which was my first real experience with these fun little cars.

My MO in this hobby has always been simple, shop around for an interesting car that looks like it can be saved with my skills and some money, and can be sold when complete to at least break even so I can do it again. So in addition to the condition of the potential rescue car, I need to consider the market for them once done.

The 914 I just sold was a good example. It needed a fair amount of work, including a full paint job. Since I don’t paint or do body work myself, that expense often means a prospective car is not viable for me. Rarely can I recoup the cost of a paint job in resale.

Luckily for me (and the car), I stumbled across a ‘73 2.0, not some “lesser” 914. The market for those cars is strong enough that I felt I could do ok despite having to paint the car. And it turned out that I was correct.

And now comes the sad part. I’ve found another potential 914 that is very worth rescuing. I even think that this one could get by without having to paint it, the original paint is intact and at least somewhat salvageable. The car will still need a fair amount of work, including some professional rust repair in the hell hole. But it is very much a worthy car, should be saved.

The problem? It’s a ‘74 1.8. Or rather, it’s not one of the “big 3” — neither a ‘73 2.0, an LE nor a factory /6. And the sad truth is that people aren’t willing to pay much for these poor, lesser cars. Knowing what I know now from my experience with the just-sold yellow 2.0, I know what it is going to cost to get this 1.8 back on the road and reasonably attractive. And despite it being a decent car with lots of potential, I can’t sell it as a nice, running, driving car for enough at the end to cover the costs, unless the current owner practically gave it to me.

Which finally brings me to my point — is the 914 community shooting itself in the foot with the current obsession for the “desired” versions? Look at the number of nice 1.7 and 1.8 cars that languish unsold at prices $5-10k less than similar 2.0 cars routinely sell for. Those are cars that are ready to drive, and they don’t sell. Cars like the 1.8 I have been looking at can’t be sold for much at all, because they aren’t “worth” what it would cost to refresh them. And so they continue to sit and rot.

Is the 914 community ruining the future with the obsession over these certain models? The poor small motor cars are still great fun to drive, and still attract just as much attention from the rest of the world. Why are they so ignored?

Well, my .02, with Porsche's a big part of it is the engine. Always will be. That and low number production and factory goodies. A prime juxtaposition is the '76 911S and Turbo.

I noticed the same thing when I bought my 914 years ago. I was outbid on a '73 914 2.0 on Ebay. Sweet car, no rust, only 30K miles. So I looked around, found that I could get a 1.8 for a third of my max bid. It's just as much fun, but costs way less. Plus it has L-Jet, which I like much better. And, just one more thing, motors can be built and swapped to exceed 2.0 performance.

They're a better value. I don't think the "community" cares one way or another. It's new buyers with an eye on resale that do.

I did the Octeenerfest drive in the right seat of Chris’s 1975-1.8. Chris ripped through the turns (driving instructor) and the car held its own on the straight a ways. I had a blast.
You are absolutely right, the ‘73-74 2.0’s bring the best resale but if you want the 914 experience at a lower cost, the 1.7 & 1.8 cars are the ones to buy.

Wile everyone goes after the pricey 2.0’s, I’m happy to pick up some early 1.7’s.

root's car is a 1.7 rebuilt by him and it goes just fine. my guess is if someone is going to run a worn out engine, which might be most 914 owners, it might as well be a 2.0 for that extra tiny bit of extra power?

how interesting would it be to have all out cars dynoed to see what they are really putting to the ground. my guess is many are running at 70%+- of full AS NEW power.

But it costs just as much to restore or refresh a 1.7 as it does a 2.0. Despite that, the ending value is way out of whack. If the yellow car I just sold had been the exact same equipment but was a 1.7 instead, I'd have been deep under water in it.

I fully understand that the bigger motor cars should be worth more, but the current differential in value is way out of proportion to the actual differences in the cars. Which means that I probably won't be able to do another 914 unless I come across another 2.0. The 1.7 & 1.8 cars will continue to sit unloved. And I find that sad, more than a bit wrong.

The highest amount ever paid to a non-/6 914 in my memory was the 1.8L that went for $93k at auction in California a couple months ago...

Better/bigger-engined cars throughout the automotive spectrum typically go for more than their lesser-engined versions. It's not just a 914 thing.

I totally agree ! The 1.8 emblem should be cheaper but in my search the 2.0 are less money

I should acknowledge that part of my thinking on this is colored by my goals. My hobby is to buy, rehab and sell old sports cars. I’m retired, this is just a hobby, I don’t need to make a profit doing this. But if I’m going to continue to be able to do this in the future, I must be able to at least break even. Losing money on a car or two eats into my retirement funds, and when that happens I’ll be forced to stop.

As such, my whining here perhaps isn’t felt by others. If someone else’s goal is to buy and rehab the car to keep, the ending value difference becomes moot, or even an advantage in some cases.

So perhaps I’m out of line here. But it just grates on me to see cars that could be saved, yet I can’t afford to do so.

It cost the same to do bodywork and paint on a 914 as a 911 but the cost benefit ratio on the 911 is usually much better - the cost is much lower in relationship to the final value. Same idea for a ‘75 vs a 67S - 911. It cost what it cost and cars sell for what buyers are willing to pay. That’s why our shop doesn’t restore/hot rod 914’s. There’s no profit in it. When we quote 100-150K for a 911, it’s not a problem.

Have you thought about offering your rehab as a service. If something be hires you to rehab their car, It doesn’t matter what model it is. You get to play and your profit is built in.

That idea has been bounced around here, I haven’t ruled it out totally. Still not sure how I’d structure doing what I do as a service.

Interesting topic Arne. When I first became interested in 914s, a 914-6 driver was less $ than a current 2.0 driver, and in my mind, that was the only one to get. Of, course, I was a teenager and dreaming at the time. I had opportunity to buy a '73 2.0 about a year after college for $5500, but it wasn't turnkey enough for my financial situation at the time. Now '73-74 2.0 cars in good shape are generally fetching at least mid to high teens. BAT is probably partially responsible.

I ended up buying a '74 1.8 recently and love the car. I went in comfortable with the fact that I'd be lucky to break even if I part with it in the next couple years. Sorry to say it, but in stock configuration, 914s are all slow, but they are all a ton of fun to drive. It comes back to the same thing as it does with any classic: rarity. One difference is that german cars generally cost more to repair than American classics for example. There are tons of great classics out there that are "not worth restoring" because they're not one of the rarer versions.

On the other hand, if you look at the air-cooled 911 market, there were several step-children 911s for several years. 964s were cheap, as were '78-83 SCs, and many of the mid-year cars were just avoided due to various reasons including cooling issues. Now, people can't get enough of any of them and values are going thru the roof. It's all about spillover. 80s Ferrari 308s used to be dirt cheap and now they're collectibles because the more desirable models are unattainable for most. There are many more examples that I'll leave out of this post that's already too long. So theoretically, a relatively rust-free 914 should only go up in value, because they're the next tier in the air-cooled market.

If a 1.7/1.8 has been upgraded to a 2.0+ displacement, is it still worth less than a stock 2.0?

To many buyers, yes. Original 2.0 cars sell for more than upgraded. Original motors (numbers matching) are also valued.

Interesting discussion. On one hand, I think it's great there are still 914s that are affordable for those of us with modest incomes. But I agree that it is sad that the values discourage restoring good prospects. I will say that my first two 914s were 1.7s and darn fun cars to drive. But then I got a deal on a 2.0 I couldn't pass up and that car was MORE fun. I just think that engine fits the car a lot better and deserves higher value. But not THAT much more. The smaller engines are still great cars. Markets are weird.

My first car was a 914 6 for $4,000....1974. 2.0 and I was 19 years old. Would drive 100 mph everyday just to get the blood moving. Car had enough torque to go 100 mph anywhere anytime....even in Colorado. My current gang of nutballs put 3.2 sixes in their cars, and I think Sir Andy is a 3.6. I still don't know why a 2.2 or 2.4 or 2.7 wouldn't suffice, but go big or don't go at all is the mantra. I think conversions are getting really close to 100% acceptable. V-8 guys are a different breed I believe....but the biggest strongest Porsche brand air cooled engine in a 914 is almost considered "stock". I currently have a 2056 cc in my '73 but now realize more is everything....more fun...more snap....more money....back to more fun!! I would buy the cleanest rust free car available and drop the most powerful Porsche engine in it and enjoy the ride. Sure a 1.8 (1.7) going downhill in the mountains is fun......but 250 hp going uphill is more fun. But that is just me...
gg

you're leaving my dream. Hopefully, in about 20 years....LOL
I guess this 914 will count as my first real restoration

I think you're confusing love and value. I think there's a lot of love for 1.7 and 1.8 cars, and it's from people who really love 914's in any guise.

Some people love speed, and they'll go for the bigger engines.
Some people love an investment that brings a return, and they'll go for the bigger engines.
And then some people just love 914's, and they'll drive one with any engine size. Count me in with this group. The next 914 I plan to buy will be a bone stock early 1.7. Now stop bringing attention to how they're undervalued!!!

I think your perspective is backwards. The 914 Community and regular folks are pricing the 914 where it should be for an old crusty VW. It's the car collectors that are putting the high values on the ‘73 2.0, LE & factory /6.

A full resto is like a new car, the value drops as soon as it's driven off the floor.

I wouldn't buy a full resto 914 for $20k as there is just too many modern engineered cars too choose from, like a Cayman S or boosted BRZ or LS swap 240sx.

Arne, you are correct. I've often wondered the 914 countryside talking to myself and asking similar questions.

For me, it's all about rust. I hate it. And, unless it is rare, I always pass.
Would I rather a 1.7/1.8 with no rust? or a 2.0 with rust.
Yes, I have a '74 2.0 (it was dumb luck), but there are guys out there building reliable 130 plus h.p in a type 4 engine, be it 1.7, 1.8 or 2.0. It is still a 914 so I don't see a problem with the engine size compared to what amounts to hour after hour of metal repair, hair pulling and expenditures.

As an example, I'll use a '70 911 S vs. '70 T.
An S is extremely fast, a T, not as much for sure. I'll take a rust free T over a rusty S anytime. I don't care, but there some that do.
Compare the price of an S over a T.

As one man pointed out to me some decades ago, It's the body and paint done correctly that kills the wallet, most everything else is mechanical.

In summation, this doesn't make me right, it's simply an opinion.
And, I dig the early 1.7 cars.

Hi Arne - I am glad that you are enjoying your retirement and having fun restoring cars, especially the 914 you just did.

I believe all 914's are rising in value and the older they get the fewer there are. I would love to buy another 914; yes, I would like a bone-stock '73 2.0 Appearance Group car. But that is more because that was my first 914, bought brand new. If I came across a very clean 1.7/1.8 it would probably not deter me as I am not trying to break even or make a profit.

I consider all of these cars to generally be black holes where money goes, never to be seen again. If at some point someone offered me a butt-load of money for my car, then I would consider it. I sold my last 914-6, a '70, back in '95 for $25K. People thought the buyer was crazy for spending that kind of money on a 914, 6 or not. I could not say no, as that funded my continuing education at the time.

If someone was trying to buy my current Six, once done, I would have to see $200K or more to get my interest. I really have no desire to see it ever and that is why it is being built to the specs it is.

Now if someone came at me with a straight swap for a '72 Dino 246 GT in forest green with tan leather......

quick solution: 1911. Still original Mtr. Low cost. More.

For me its always been a hp/lb issue.. I'd much rather have an early (70) 1.7 than a later, heavier and less powerful 1.8. I had a 76 2.0. Stock engine. Rated at 86hp? over 2200lb? my '70 1.7 had 80hp and barely broke 2000lb

Nowadays, as someone who has never liked rust, find the best example you can regardless of engine. You can always swap/rebuild engines afterall.

The desirability rating for me has always been

1) 914-6
2) 73-74 2.0
3) early 1.7
4) 75-76 2.0
5) just cause I like djet, a later 1.7
6) 1.8

What you are noticing now are not too different from the 356 snobs of 20+ years ago when "nobody" wanted a "B" car (or even a pre A). A, C or SC sure.. but B's were the bastard child from a style and performance perspective, but no one would throw out a "B" if it ended up in your garage nowadays. Same is true with a 1.8. While perhaps not sought after, they can be a bargin and just as much fun to drive.

Thanks to all who have replied and shared your thoughts. It’s been interesting.

I think the biggest takeaway for me is that while most people are aware of the value difference between versions, the reality is that the only people it negatively affects are people like me.

I hate to use the term “flipper” to describe myself, as in the automotive world that carries connotations of somewhat predatory resellers who add nothing, just inflate the cost of the cars.

But I am a flipper, more after the fashion of housing. I buy, repair, refurbish and refresh, and then sell for a higher price when done. I add value to the cars before selling, and for people who can’t do this sort of work them selves, they can get my labor for cheap since I’m not strictly profit motivated.

But I still can’t sell cars for more than the market will support. So cars that are undervalued when complete (such as the small motor 914s) don’t work for my “business” model. As has been pointed out, it costs the same to refurbish a ‘74 1.8 as it does a ‘73 2.0, While the latter is worth maybe 25-33% more when complete. Makes it difficult to impossible for me to do one of those and still break even, assuming I don’t compromise my standards and cut corners.

All of this means that the car that prompted this whole topic is probably not viable for me. Either the seller needs to lower the price below market value, or someone would need to commit to buying the car in advance. I doubt that either is going to happen, so it’s probably time for me to let that one go and look for something economically feasible.

A friend of mine would restore old ( 60's ) formula road race cars as a side business. He would require the owner to keep a credit card / checking account filled with $ so he would not have to front $. Every week or two he would send the owner a progress report along with a bill for services. If the bill was not paid, work stopped.

Where in the USA a person is located matters, some areas don't have much $ floating around so work may be difficult to find.

That could work, especially if the client were local, or close enough that he/she could stop by and see the progress in person occasionally. But might be hard to get that type of thing started, until one had a local reputation built up.

As you know, it's the original matching numbers / options that drive value, and with 4s that's the 73 2.0 with appearance package or an original LE / Creamsicle, Bumblebee, yada yada.

I'd rather score a deal on a runt and turn it into a 2270 than pay premium for an original 2.0. But I'm just a driver, not a CCW or collector.

True, he got this kind of work because he raced formula cars making himself known in the auto racing community. With the wonders of the internet, pictures can be sent of progress.

He is also the only person I know that blew up not one but 2 real GT-40s he was contracted to drive in a vintage race, with one being a big block car. . .

One down side of doing this as a business. You are tied to a 2nd job that you can't escape from. The car owner is going to want their car back in a timely fashion so this will take away some of the fun personal project aspect.

I’m aware of that, and that is one of several reasons I’m a touch reluctant to consider trying to get into that type of project.

I tried to throw a hint I'm looking for a cheap 1.8 emblem but the flippers keep dragging this post on and on

Have you looked at the prices of air cooled bugs, Ghias and transporters lately? They make 914s look affordable.

I can sum it up in two words:

Supply & Demand

I bought my '73 2.0 almost two years ago for $5500. It's a very early & fully optioned car (it even has the black vinyl on the "A" pillar.) At the time, I had my yellow 1.7 "Speedy" that I was having a ball with, but was a rusty car that I was limping along with. A lot of people were telling me NOT to convert this nice original 2.0 to a /6, but I wanted a nice chassis to build the car I wanted. Now, with a 2.4S motor, oil cooler, and much better 911/914-6 brakes, I'm having a REALLY fun time with it.

Will there come a day where some might say it was sacrilege to convert this car to /6 power? I don't know and I don't care.

Also, in my opinion, the fun factor is definitely there with a well developed 1.7 car. Any 914 can be upgraded to be quite a nice car with some patience, skill, and money.

I drove a 1.7 once and it was slower than the 2.0. I think that difference makes it less desirable.

That said, ALL 914s are worth something. Fix it or sell it.

Oh, I get that. The marketplace has spoken, yada, yada, yada...

The thing is, I get bothered when I see cars with great potential, cars that would be fun to drive and make someone really happy, but I can’t make that happen because, IMO, sometimes the market is an idiot.

It’s just another facet of our culture today. The lesser cars aren’t good enough, everyone wants the biggest and bestest.

I should add — I’m not slamming people who prefer the 2.0 cars. They are better cars, so they SHOULD be more desired. But the smaller motor or non-original cars shouldn’t be dissed the way they often are.

Disagree
As a I heard some smuck TV personality say: "there is a butt for every seat."

My thought is that we are also all posting our opinions on these cars to a dedicated enthusiast site which differs from the views outside of 914World. If the general sports car population saw it the same way, all of the 1.7 and 1.8 cars would sell much quicker and at higher pricing.

No problem with the cost of entry however also need to consider the cost to refurb the 40 plus year old issues when you get into rust repair etc... The work is quite expensive especially for those that are not equipped to do the work themselves.

The cars are affordable "as is", but should you choose to go beyond fair to good condition, you are looking at a lot of money.

Ask me how I know

Kinda of a dumb thread for people who own these cars cause they know better ..

But for purist who collects and have a storage unit at el san Gabriel airport
With 7 differnt classic porsches. Then he is going for the 1973 2.0 all original crome bumpers
With factory air conditioning.

And pay mid 20k


But for the rest of us who actually drive it and have only 1 cool old car

We dont really give a shit , 1.7 , v8 , 1.8 , 2.0 , 2.7 , big 4 2336

We drive it like we stole it

But even though i bought the famous 5k dollar engine in mine
i knew it would kick ass .

But return of investment and rising the retail value were never a consideration




The 1.7 , is really a great engine in my opinion, although extremely low on power
I always found it had good enough power in every situation . Much smoother then the brute that is the big 4

My wife has a '71 1.7L and when people rode in it, they swore the motor had to have been punched out. It weighed in at 2100 lbs with me in the driver's seat and was actually fairly well corner-balanced.

The car was a one (original) owner car and pretty much unmolested. It seemed to run pretty good, but it leaked oil from a few places, and with more than 108k on the (non-working) ODO, and some iffy valve adjustment readings, we figured it would be a good idea to tear it down to find out why.

We found that the camshaft bearings were worn, but everything else was in good condition. We were planning to keep the car, so we decided to just bump the displacement up to 1.9L.

A friend will be dealing with some minor body dings and will repaint it for under $2k. I will be rebuilding the suspension, have all new PMB calipers ($400.) and new rotors (market price), new Bilstien inserts & shocks ($400.), installing a (THOMAS) rebuilt side-shift transaxle that I picked up from another member here for $400. $300. bought the interior from a very nice 34k mile garaged '71 that another member had turned into a 6-GT conversion. Also, recently picked up some really nice 2.0L S/S H/Es for under $300., and a nice set of ATS Classic wheels for $500.

Adding up some other mechanical & rubber parts, including a set of new tires, maybe another $1,500 ~ $2k, we're up to roughly $15k, including the initial price of the car. We're OK with that because it will be a keeper. The 1.9L will be fine for the style of driving we plan for it ... in fact, it may surpass the HP & torque #s of a stock 2.0L when we're done

By the time rolls around for my wife to sell it, I'm sure it will fetch a good price.

I love my '74 1.8 ....but then it's now a 3.0 /6 conversion.

I thought we agreed to keep the early car secret to ourselves.

I have not found your quoted price differences for similar condition and equipped models to be correct. First. you must remember options that were available on '74 cars were mostly standard on '73's, so you must compare apples to apples. And really, the performance difference between all four cylinders isn't all that great. Yes (before I get flamed), there is some no doubt, but please. It's not like the contrast in a stock 911 and a GT2. You've got about a 10-15 HP gap and about the same disparity in torque. All are slow, even the six. And I wouldn't trust the Hagerty guide very much as they're a bit outdated. Take a look at their graphs - they've remained flat for the last three years, which we all know is not the case.

I love my little 1974 Sunflower Yellow 1.8 Euro Spec Retro Mod.
It seems fast enough for me and I mostly enjoy the handling that it's known for.
No leaks, no rust, no dings, perfect condition and fun as hell to drive, although I'm still getting used to shifting it. I just bought 2.0 Fuchs that are in the process of being refinished. I'm not worried about re-sale, because I'm not selling it. When I die, it's somebody's else's resale worry, although my family would be stupid to sell it. It's really too much fun to worry about numbers.... 1.7, 1.8, 2.0, whatever. It's still my little Sunflower Porsche and I Drive It Like Stole It. Have fun with whatever you own.

So 356's went from only a certain model being desirable to a strong desire for all of them. Early 911's have pulled up prices for all the 911 models and it could be argued, 914's. Many 911 guys are paying the big bucks to own a 914-6. I believe the price of the 914-6's, 2.0 fours and LE's will soon result in the "lesser" 914's - the 1.7 & 1.8 cars, moving up in value. But it's a waiting game. Buy them now for $5k, sell them later for 20. My feeling the rise in price will feel like it happened overnight, we just don't know which night it will be.

I don't know muscle cars but I think the same thing happened there. The biggies went through the roof and then there was a strong market for all the wannabes and grocery getters

I was thinking that, but it seems he is worried about originality. I suppose those original cars get more money, he is correct on that. Couldn't you make a 1.7 or 1.8 pristine and original?

But there are people out there that just want THE CAR. That was me. I wanted to drive the car. Not really drive it fast. Are they paying more for the engine size or the originality?

As with any item for sale, someone will buy it for a fair price. Fair to you and fair to them might be the same. If it is not, you have to wait on the next guy.

Sounds like a fun hobby. Maybe you should start doing the body & paint work too.

I have several comments that I will probably get blasted for and to be fair I have had a 1.8 and 2.0.

# upgrade the brakes on a 1.7 or 1.8 and say bye bye to the 2.0

# it’s not like where talking real HP anyway

# everything feels faster in yellow

# everything feels faster with the top off

# original 6 or Bumblebee don’t touch, everything else who cares not talking real money
here. When a average 914 brings 60k plus then I will eat my words

# would have preferred a 76 only because it was the last year. Back dated bumpers of
course

# just like the Chevy SS cars in a couple years there will be more badged 2.0 cars then
were produced

Just IMHO I'll never own a stock engine 914, a 1.7/1.8 would get upgraded to minimum 2.0. Either tuck the numbers matching lump away or build on that case. . A 1.8 I'd install 2.0 internals and keep the L-jet, this runs better than a 2.0 D-jet IMO.
Swapping the engine back when the time comes to sell is a straight forward task




Maybe not average condition but I bet 60k in less than 20 years.

OMG....that is just a gorgeous car!! And reminded me of when I would stare at the brochure 40 years ago and dream of the day. That look is one of the best in my book. The yellow top is awesome.
gg