Bob id be down with sending a few out. At that price you cant loose.

Sorry if this is sort of a hijack, but I have to throw it in now and then hoping you'll still consider it...
I want plastic bumpers, light weight and less expensive than fiberglass. Just a quick vacuum mold, right?
Thanks for bringing great 914 products to us.

you are right Rand, the parts would be very inexpensive to produce, it is making the vacuum mold that would be expensive. As you probably know we have the original aluminum vwporsche vacuum tooling for the ABS raised letter rocker panels to make exact original pieces is very very inexpensive, however, I would be afraid to ask how much that tooling would be to make these days maybe 75,000 dollars!!!!!

Sorry, George, but the stainless bumpers just don't look right to these eyes. That's not to say they don't look good, or aren't a good product for a lot of customers—but the way they wrap around the corners of the body is different, the color is different (being stainless), etc.—and Mark's point about the holes lining up for the rubber as well as the foglight grilles give me pause as well, though the latter may be limited to the prototypes he was looking at.

The "many many many used rear bumpers" in perfectly rechromable shape tells the tale: The 914 world needs a proper repro front available in mild steel and fresh chrome to go with all of those good used rears. It's kind of our Alfa Spider nose panel: Damage is inevitable as the fleet ages. I'd love to buy two new ones: One to use, one as a backup while the first one goes in for straightening and rechroming when the need arises.


This. So very this.

Original rear 914 bumpers can be found without too much trouble. It's the fronts that are hard to come by. have really only seen one great 1970-1972 front bumper in chrome for sale in the last 3-5 years, and the guy selling deemed my car unworthy (as was his right, I suppose). It and a really nice rear went to a -6 restoration, so they did go to a good cause. I haven't seen anything since, and the hassle factor with re-doing mine means it's never been done. The $475 for a (good) redo doesn't seem out of line to me...nor would quite a bit more for a GOOD repro in chrome.

we have our own molds with them, they fit great, however you are right about the absolute chrome look, they are certainly different if one is compared to the other

I have the stainless on the TR6. It will never polish like chrome. But on the other hand I know I can metal finish them if I have too. Depends to some extent on the paint color next to the bumper too.

Another good reason for new chrome front bumpers: For those of us with early rear bumpers with the hard edges, color match becomes an issue when you can't do stainless front and rear.

A single stamping of a new front bumper would service:
1970-1972 914 & 914-6
1973-1974 914 (with four more holes drilled)
1973-1974 914 owners that want to backdate their bumpers
1975-1976 914 owners that want to backdate their bumpers

There's definitely a hole in the market here...the key will be a product that is truly a good repro—one that should probably be done using an NOS front bumper to make sure it's dead on.

Been Pete at RD for years.

Good to know I am not the only one! Seems like a perfect product for his company, and if chrome is the stopping point, why not supply them ready to chrome...to be shipped to your chrome shop of choice. I bet chrome shops would be thrilled to work with a new piece ready to go...

Or ready to paint; I’d like primed or bare steel.

If its a matter of commitment
I will commit to the tooling in steel like OEM. We had jumped around with the company in Vietnam, that went sifeways when AA locked up the market
So yes these are oficially on the list. 1st late bumpers, and we will go from there.

With all your connections in the Porsche world Pete, you can't find someone to make us good 914 bumpers?????

(BTW, loved the latest issue of 000, as usual)

The problem isn't just stamping them, it's the finishing and handling of these.

I would think if we could find someone to stamp the steel the rest would be easy at least in my area.

lets make something that has not been made yet, for example we are now in the process of making fenders and cowl patch repair panels

by the way, tow hooks would be exact and plated but would have to cost 35 bucks each, anyone still interested at that price? (tooling is over 3500 to do it correctly and then we would have to purchase 500 of them!!!!!)

Just have to sit back and wait for the exlusive deal to expire and then you can call Harrington and see what they are willing to do..
As I said before....They were great to deal with when I bought
my Bumpers directly....
My so called ugly, bad fitting ,junk stainless ones....

Yes, perhaps—but I am not sure my connections are worth more than those of Mikey or mepstein, as they are closer to manufacturing.

I know and like Peter over at Restoration Design, but we've only spoken at an event or two. My sense is he runs a good business supplying things that are hard for us to get otherwise, and possibly better and more accurate than offerings from other vendors. I suspct this would be a product that would be right up his alley, especially if 914 world could supply his team with a NOS or otherwise *perfect* original factory front bumper (not redone or rebent) to work from.

I also have to think he'd sell more of them than a lot of the steel parts his team currently makes, but would also have to defer to his wisdom and experience in this sphere. BUT, if he could supply the bumper in two finishes (ready for the chrome shop and primered for paint), I have to think a lot of us would be very interested. I wonder if a group buy would get him over the hump on this? So long as the price is reasonable and the quality is high, I would put my name down for two right now. I am sure there are others who would buy 1-2 of them, as well.

Lets hope that Porsche Classic will hear our needs and bite the bullet and tool up the bumpers again as a factory replacement part. Dream on I say. Some one with some pull should call them.

I bet it would be a lot less from RD.
Pete told me it’s a a very big expense to do such a large pressing. He has to prioritize what to make for all the different models.
I’ll wait to see if 914rubber can make a connection with the Harrington supplier.

I can't speak for Pete at RD but the bumper is a complicated piece to press requiring multiple dies. Then it would need welding (brackets), custom hole drilling, QC checks, polishing and plating. Plating is highly regulated (expensive) in Canada, so he would likely need to ship to a US plating firm then return and a final QC check.

To RD quality standards I would assume the finished product would be a hefty price.

You may think there's a huge market but the truth is it's a low volume, low return product, especially for this crowd. I'd consider it a piss poor ROI on the tooling/costs involved.
I did talk to Pete on this and at the time he wasn't at all interested. They're much too busy making dies for 356 and 911 panels, which at this time I would consider their core business revenue generators.

Really the 914 crowd owes a debt of gratitude to Pete, as his love for the 914 is the driving force at RD behind the large number of 914 parts they make.

Great perspective, Mark. Thank you for adding it to this discussion and all makes sense.

I seem to remember the last time Porsche had front bumpers available, they were $1200.00 in primer without any rubber, grills, etc.—which I thought nutty but perhaps a result of the time they'd been in storage. Maybe it had more to do with what you've said above, though I suspect the stainless bumpers are roughly as difficult to make in terms of stamping and welding. Would be interesting to hear Pete weigh in on this, as I doubt there are many (any?) in North America who can speak as authoritatively to this subject. Curious how a 914 bumper would stack up next to some of the more complex inner panels he makes for 356s and 911s...and what the market looks like in his view for each category. You may well be right about margins, but there's only one way to find out if there's a viable market and floating a possible group buy at a projected price point would be an indicator. 914world.com is definitely the place to do it.

Workaround for chroming might be to...not offer them in chrome. Only ready for chrome, putting that on the customer to figure out—especially if it's a hassle in Canada. I would pay good money for a core ready for chroming, especially if said core reduced the amount of work the chrome shop had to do.

The fact Pete loves 914s is indeed a great thing, and perhaps the strongest indicator that we may be stuck with scrounging up so-so cores or buying incorrect stainless steel bumpers from Vietnam as the only option. I have no doubt that the 356, 912, and 911 crowds are bigger spenders, though the number of six-figure 914 builds has been climbing in recent years (I know of several off the top of my head), and there are a lot more builds and runners out there in need of a good front bumper...

And George that tow hook for 35 is a deal.. I would buy one.

Ah, and many thanks! Thank you for supporting 000!

My BS meter just redlined.
So.....in 1970 Porsche decided .....hmmmmm lets make the painted bumpers
softer....or .....lets make the chrome pumpers stronger...not too likely.
apparently george has been teaching his employees the same story.
Years ago at Hershey his associate told me my perfect painted early rear bumper wasn't very desirable or suitable for chroming.
His offer was an insult. He approached me four times.

^ Good point. It does seem a bit odd that Porsche would make the bumpers in two kinds of steel. I seem to remember my friend Ernie bought one of the last factory fronts in primer, had its license plate holes closed up, and then had it chromed. BUT I'd be very open to hearing from Pete at RD or someone who has experience with what's possible with mild steel.

Not sure why we're talking about trailer hitches or cowl parts (talk about a small take rate!) in a thread about a possible group buy of repro 914 bumpers in steel and/or chrome. Let's stay on topic.

go measure a painted bumper and then measure a chrome bumper. The chrome bumper is thicker Than the metal one. THEN compare the rigidity of the two, the painted steel bumper is noticeably lighter and flimsier than the chrome bumper

Honest question, as I am here to learn about something I don't know: Do the multiple plating layers play a role in this?

That's what I was wondering as well. From a manufacturing perspective it would really be a pia to switch out coils of different thickness to run the different bumper finishes.. I also believe the dies would have had to be different based thickness of materials to minimize burs and damage to the dies.

Not sure how it couldn't. Ever handled a piece of chrome that has flaked off something. It is thicker than you might think and rigid.

A subject worthy of your name, Ken.

"Chromium plating is used for both decorative and industrial purposes. Decorative applications are used both for aesthetic reasons, as well as to strengthen the object to which the chromium is electroplated…"
https://theydiffer.com/difference-between-s...eel-and-chrome/

Several good viewpoints here:
https://www.finishing.com/128/77.shtml

My painted bupers (that are OEM painted) don't appear to be lighter, I have had the front off and it wasn't noticeably lighter, but I wasn't specifically checking it out.

Am I right in thinking the GT cars all had painted bumpers? In racing liter is better right?

Those were all fiberglass.

Of course.

So a thought just came to mind.. Are we talking .005 or .050 of inch difference in thickness? That's what I would like to know.. I would guess we're talking .005 of an inch give or take..

Typically the underlying plating (copper & nickel) and the top chrome layer combined is around .005 thickness; sometimes a little less.

yup chrome bumpers are tougher

No argument there. I’m just waiting for any proof that painted and chrome bumpers differ in any way but the coating.

Well....

And...

So chrome plating adds less than a pound and a tenth of a mm thickness.
Much tougher and not as flimsey ?
Mild steel vs. what ?

And yes, that is a Detecto scale.

several different 914 bumpers measured from my "collection"Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=660
795]Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

George,

You have quite the stash of bumpers.

Bob Burton

Ok I have to ask..

Does everyone understand that steel comes in a specific standard thickness based off of a scale?

If we use this as an example

Cold rolled 16ga is 1/16" thick .

Hot rolled 16 ga is 1/16" thick..

17 ga is thinner but standard size

18 ga is thinner yet same as above

And it goes on and on. There wouldn't be a 17.5 ga or a 19.5 ga in the standard english measurement scale..

The same goes for metric materials. Then the dies would have to be made for a specific thickness to be pressed,sheared, etc..

My guess is porsche had 1 maybe 2 total die sets to punch out 100,000 bumpers.. At least thats how it works in modern manufacturing..



My thought is the chroming changed the hardness of the bumper which is much like heat treating..

Oh and of course they would have probably only modded the dies for model years..

you are certainly the authority when it comes to steel Ben, I will defer to. you

The lip is not going to be an accurate measurement point having been bent stretched and compressed into shape.

I doubt if there is a special steel/difference for chrome, but I could see the press QC cherry picking the best, straightest bumpers for chroming.
When you chrome a bumper the base is polished/finished to the point of looking like a finished bumper, so it stands to reason the above is true.

The same logic that the factory would cherry pick the straightest tubs for black paint orders.

I do also think the chroming process would harden the steel to certain degree and that would lend to George's theory..

yes exactly, the rejects were the painted bumpers and then the chroming made the bumpers much harder than the mild steel ones.