More & more I'm seeing the "Garage" being used to solicit sales for various of our member vendors instead of helping members fix problems, impart knowledge & generally discuss 914 related news experience ID parts & the like.
We have a section devoted for Member Vendors ~ don't we ?
I understand the occasional crossover where customers need help or provide a (unbiased) reviews but cant we keep the introductions / group buys ect contained to the forum section CREATED for that purpose?

Flame on

I do not find it a problem to see GB ads here. I rarely go to the Vendor member section. I miss a lot of what 914 Rubber offers.
Is it really a problem ? Not interested, don't read it. I would not mind if 914 Rubber had their own way where everything they have sold , are selling or will be selling all in one spot.
Maybe a spot where member vendors can post the new items ?
Could care less about Uro parts and AA making new parts. To me thy are the last choice it nothing else is available.
Bruce

^ I'm with Bruce...especially when we are talking about something like new chrome front bumpers, which have become hens teeth for 914 owners.

I do get you sentiment, but don't see it as an overwhelming problem?

Like almost everything you can think of, it’s been brought up and Andy has said he doesn’t have a problem with it.

Heck, 914Rubber in particular teaches me something new with about every other group buy they announce so they are a little technical.

No problem in my mind.

Actually there is, 2 ways. The Banner ads at the top of the Fourm which will take you to the particular vendors site & just above them a link called "View new posts" which show posts in the Vendors section w/o going there .
Everyone has their opinion Bruce, but if as Rob comments that Andy has no issue with it, then that is all that matters.
Lastly not to get into a pissing match but considering you are an employee of Pelican who sells products sourced from all those players.. im surprised you would voice such Bias.

There is no such thing as a "non-biased" viewpoint.

They are all viewpoints or opinions based on your personal experiences which is in of itself ......biased.

Character is important, and I personally don't have a problem with it.

But that is just my opinion.

with Bruce ...really is it a big deal,hardly worth a mention IMO,its great to see folks getting deals with GB's isn't the garage about fixing cars,how we do it ,what parts help in that process,etc.
914rubber are a valuble asset to this forum the more they sell more chance we have of new NLA parts being reproduced...bottom line.

I have been around this site for a number of years. I have found that being informed comes some times from product knowledge and discussion. A lot of us do not go to the vendors section unless I am specifically looking for an item to order, who to order from, and where to get a quality item. It takes prior information gleaned from discussions, what is going on, developments, etc.

In sum, discussion and finding out what is going on in the vendor offered items provides me with information which I will probably use later. For example "Group Special Buys" provided me with information that the 19mm master clutch cylinder was going out for manufacture after getting feedback from the members. These master cylinders were hard to get and rebuild kits are not available as they were in "yesteryear". I did not need one but after the discussion on it prior to anyone going out for manufacture I decided I needed on for future years replacement. So, I bought it.

The banners and the vendor section are great for their purposes, but they do not create the opportunity for information exchange, product development, awareness to our community, etc. The way everything has been handled in the "Garge Section" always keeps me informed on specific product development, group buys, etc which I think is essential to our site information exchange, keeping our cars on the road, getting together, etc.

Tha is how I see it. It is a thin line sometimes but essential to the exchange of information.

Steve Hurt

I like to learn about the new stuff in the garage. Usually there is a discussion with the part introduction.

If anything, I would imagine a lot of the vendors are actually competition to Pelican. I don't know but I doubt Bruce profits through Pelican any from what goes on at 914World. He does personally supply a lot of cool new and used parts to the 914 community. I have benefitted from his involvement on this site.

After a decade there isn't much left to talk about but new things....

Group Buys make alot of what 914Rubber does possible. Without the sudden influx of cash to pay for the tooling things would take longer or possibly never to happen. Plus there is a volume discount on their end so remaining stock is better priced on our end.

I'm likely like others in that I search the garage for an answer first, so the best solution might be found in a "GB" thread, where as I rarely look in Vendors for a "how to". So it's a matter of being where the action is.

In the garages I've been in at least, we talk about things other than torque values when working.

I can honestly say from watching many new parts vendors develop their stuff over the years it is many times a thankless job with lots of headaches. Nor is is a get rich quick kind of job. Sure you can make a living if you're a good businessman but you aren't getting RICH
So anything that will give a leg up to these guys working tirelessly to keep our cars running should be supported, and if that means that they post about a new product so be it.
I've never understood people who complain about postings, it's a forum, if the title doesn't interest you, pass over it, I know I pass over lots of things on forums. It's not like it's a public hearing where everyone goes in order so you have to listen to lots of stuff you don't care about to get to the stuff you do. Just move the mouse.

The garage is supposed to be about CAR topics we would discuss in our own garage.
I like most don’t check the for sale section and members vendor section that often.
So I am fine with the group buys and vendor announcements in the garage.

That being said it would be nice if the vendor group buys, announcements, etc. could be stickies so we don’t have to search for them. How hard would it be to allow them to do that?

The big difference is 914Rubber / Mark responds to the members needs and makes what we ask for in many instances. . He's a lot more than a retailer. .

I do try to walk a fine line here. I know the forum (specifically garage) is to be informational. The question was posed some time ago, and I did only post in the classifieds for quite some time. I have found it quite valuable to have discussion on parts prior to making stuff.

I look at my postings as kind of a co op.

The prices I offer on the GB stuff is not to "promote" myself, but to try to address the needs of the community. I prime example was initial stainless bumper GB. I wanted to provide a service for the community if there was a need. Pricing is usually at or near cost on stuff I do. Sometimes it actually below.

If some one wants to review a part mine or otherwise great.

We need more posts about rust, tire sizes, stock fuel injection troubleshooting, and "where does this part go?"

BTW, have you seen the multi million dollar mansions all of those greedy 914 Rubber guys live in?

I have! I stayed in one of the many (I think 3) bedrooms earlier this month.

What? You guys thought it was really a mansion?

Well with all the rain we may have a moat soon.

But note I am one of those guys many are referring to.. I also do share my build, my projects, my ideas good or bad, and sometimes my frustration.

I must say I read almost everything posted. I even commented on someone else's group buy about how nice the product is as I had bought them last time around..

I always feel like big brother is watching on pelican which sucks as far as I am concerned though I do understand it..

Actually, many times the posts turn in to forum discussion. Mark and Matt have actually been responsive to change suggestions and they even call forum members who regularly buy from them and ask “what should we make next?”

Engman (RIP) never really announced anything. You had to find out by seeing someone else review his stuff and go “oh damn! I got to have me some of that!”

they don't bother me, but 914werke has a point.

what if every other post on this forum became an advertisement for a product from this vendor or that?

Already has... that’s why sticky’s at the top would be nice.

You have to be kidding right ? we will be worse off without this happening,think about it.

I would like members to use the Sandbox for non-tech threads they post in the Garage.

Just as well get all the rain done before June!

Does post have just sales offering?

Does the post create information exchange?

Does everyone participating gain knowledge?

Has anyone tried to make parts better which are getting hard to find?

Have members participated in exchange of information which provided vendors with the needed requirements to develop product?

Are there members requiring information on handling rust, replacing sheetmetal parts, welding, parts sourcing, parts exchange, Etc?

How do you think the threads got the informative information on the above subject matters?

Is there information regarding our vendors and others ever discussed in detail including their produces for sale?

How many people have received information with discussions with all members including our vendors which lead to a particular problem solution?

How do I know from experience who and what provided information in these threads?

Over the years members have had their differences which lead to our separation from 914club.com to 914world.com. The basis of some of the reasons why we split may lie in the reasoning that we have to have absolute correctness in every and all threads we write. Further, we cannot have absolute this or that; it must be based on reasonableness and how exchange information.

I have personally gained on exchanges in the Garage and did get information on parts, how to do things, etc. The Garage did provide me with members participating in my inquiry about parts to be replaced which I lost in a major theft in Barstow, CA.

One could make a point that I was requesting parts and should be in the vendor/used parts areas. But you cannot put in the vendor or the used parts sales category when my inquiry caused people to be aware of theft, parts stolen, offering free parts, available parts for sale, offer os assistance, and numerous other related services/information.

Years earlier we helped a member get a Volks Van with a wheel chair lift.
How do you codify this? Under a vendor or parts for sales thread?

I did loose considerable parts and was on the edge of not completing my conversion. Based on the inputs from our members which included selling of parts via the Garage thread I probably would not have gotten the car completely together and somewhat finished. It is painted, licensed, insured and running on the road. The information I got on how to things including sheetmetal parts, welding parts and techniques, and other major items came from the Garage. In sum, information either originating or developed in the Garage led me to buy from our vendors, reviewing via commentary via Garage, etc. In sum, everything is closely associated and cannot say absolutely where the dividing line between vendor sales and information exchange can be made. It is basically how the information exchange is developed and handled.

Sorry for the long winded verbal and wordy exchange but I maybe I have been around too long in 914world.com.

I try to maintain a low profile but when it comes to the 914world site and threads, information must be exchanged freely and maybe it should be listed under a different category instead of the Garage. Special offers to develop product requiring development, money expended, ideas, how many interested people, etc takes on a different and very important function. It does involve people interest, intent, development expenses, etc from our members to have a chance of bringing our needed parts and supplies to market for our use. it is hard to tell when it changes from a developed product to one ready for market.

No issue what so ever with vendors posting in Garage, saves jumping forums and makes searches easier. If vendors were trying to sell non-914 related stuff, then HELL YA I would have a problem.

Whew! Well said everyone....the OP and the rest of us are all suffering from Cabin Fever & should be out wringing out the car......I love this Garage just as it is even when we get down into these weird introspective essays.

This is how i feel about this place

I kinda take w little exception to the
We have bueatiful cars for sale in all types of condition . One
But thats because people who dont know this forum could get taken

https://youtu.be/jwlYo8EYTWI

I am too lazy to look at all the forums.
It has not gotten out of hand yet, at least in my opinion.
If every other thread is a vendor, especially one who is not totally welcome, I have no doubt things will change.

^ This.

The member vendor section is great so that those products and services have a place to live, but the threads fall down the first page of that forum quickly, and then off of it. So I find I need a path to them or I won't go...





And I agree with this, too. Especially that part in bold…

I have zero problem with the GB threads. It isn't like there is a new one everyday. I'd take 20 group buy adds over all the
"how much is my 914 worth"

"how wide a rim & tire can I fit on my car"

"Should I build a big type 4 motor"

While we are all here to learn from each other. It always amazes me how little it takes for posts to go off course. Let's keep them on topic & not let the fact you had a day. How about I take my frustration out on the board .

Okay so back on point. This has been brought up before & answered multiple times. I want the GB threads in the garage as I don't go to the member vendor page unless I am strictly looking for a part. I like them where I will see them. Party on gents

I believe that the jury has announced its decision...

If this was the Gong Show, George Barris would be ringing the big bell.

In general, we, as a community stand WAY more to gain than the vendors. Although there's a need and demand for parts, the market is relatively small. and the R&D rarely becomes profitable. I'm thankful vendors like 914rubber, Jeff Bowlsby, PMB and others are committed to keeping 914s on the road, and adding to the knowledge base of our community.

The GB messages never prevent anyone from getting answers to their questions. Usually in record time. If we had to wade through dozens of "ads" and they hindered the flow of information, maybe something would need to be "done." But the way I see it, the GBs perform a valuable platform for the exchange of information...and an economical way to improve our cars. Win-win.

Another thought on this.

Unless I am wrong you CAN'T or aren't supposed to "comment" on someone's "for sale" post in the "for sale" forum and would imagine that rule applies to the vendor forum as well. While this is a "double edged" sword it would appear that it is useful in pointing out quality issues and it seems that possibly it is getting venders to improve their quality issues.

I also would imagine that if things started to really get out of hand the admins could and would start closing threads and giving time outs like what happens when threads start to get too political and heated.

I disagree. Don't want to see the first 2 pages nothing but stickies.

Let me see if I've got this right. 9-10 years ago everyone was screaming about the scarcity of parts and now that we have someone making those parts.........................

Exactly Kent. I think some people weren’t around when we had four choices. Dumpster dive (they were still occasionally in the wrecking yards then), Porsche Parts Department (drove many of us to the PCA so we could get a discount) AA or Pelican which basically sold NOS Porsche parts that they had bought from Porsche with an agreed upon price they couldn’t go below.

What wasn’t available, wasn’t available and why are still standing in front of my counter boy!

Then along came Engman (RIP), Rennshift, Elephant, CFR, Restoration Design, 914Rubber, McMark developing parts and turning them over to someone else for manufacturing and marketing, etc... now, instead of availability dictating the pace of restoration, it’s $.

World War I, World War II, the Holocaust, Peace in the Middle East - If only the world's problems were as pressing and complicated as "Should GBs be included in the Garage". I think WE are spending way too much time on our computers and not in our own garages turning wrenches.

Ansbacher

I can't emphasize enough, that the admin team has talked at significant length about how to handle this. And for now we've all agreed that there isn't a problem.

Mark/914Rubber/Mikey914 is the most obvious GB poster, but they also do a TON to give back to the community. Every event has LOADS of freebies from them. And the fact that they even EXIST and can make the quality of parts that they do is a HUGE benefit for all of us. That relationship is what makes 914World so great. We're all here to help each other out, including helping members turned vendors. It's a HARD road.

The other day a quarter of the posts in the "tech" section were group buys. Might as well merge the sections and delete the vendor section if it has no purpose. Or move the group buys to the vendor section and breathe some life into it. People would check it daily and the tech section would be cleaned up. Win-win.

That was 'the other day'. Right now, I counted the first 20 posts and the only GB was AA trying to jump into the SS bumper market. These things fluctuate; and rightly so. How often do you hear "914World is the best forum on the web", or words to that effect?

It ain't broke....no need to 'fix' it.

It ain't broke

Dan

I try not to be too obnoxious. It is a concern, I don't want this to be a "commercial" space. If I'm out of line let me know. Andy has a very well developed community that is very helpful in the restoration of these cars, I don't want to wear out my welcome.

I don't have a problem with the group buys. They are beneficial to all here. Members and guests alike. Some group buys interest me, some don't. Some technical threads interest me, some do not. If they don't interest me, I don't read the thread. I think we have a forum for restorations and builds, but they still end up in the garage. There is also an events forum, but event threads are always on the front page in the garage. I remember the early days of the club. As I recall, It was the 914 forum. The garage came later when it became too crowded. The sand box was a secret place in the site. The garage was formed so we could discuss anything guys hanging out, working on cars, would bs about. Religious and political discussions are retired after a major conflict of tempers. Someone please correct me if my memory deceives me.

The garage works just fine as it is. Leave it the hell alone!

I don't quite understand the complaint.

This place is clearly filled with people posting instead of working on their cars!! However, does spending time in 914world 'garage' the same as an 'actual' garage??

In the aviation world known as armchair flying

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