My father gave me his 71 a few years ago that he purchased after returning from a tour in Vietnam. He drove it for about 5 years, put 56,000 miles on it then put it in a garage where it stayed until a few years ago.

My original plan was to build an engine to replace the 1.7 that is currently in the car. Recently I was having a conversation with a friend who told me he had a Ford straight six that I should put in the car. My question to everyone is, how do you feel about converting to a v-8, or any other "non-vw" engine? Does it make it less of a 914? No offense to those who have converted, I'd love your viewpoints as well.

I love conversions but your opinion is the only one the counts. That being said, I sure as Hell wouldn't put a Ford straight 6 in it. Go Subaru, Audi or Chevy. Much more support, easier and cheaper.

I think it depends. On a '71 914-4 that's not particularly rare or sought after I say do with it what you like. Sure, someday these things will be worth a ton more in original condition. But if you like a good project then go nuts.

On the functional side, I'd always prefer something weighted similarly so as not to upset the handling. My first choice after the VW 4's and Porsche 6's would be a Subaru flat 4. the only reason to go V8 IMO is for sound, the Subaru 4's can be built to blistering amounts of power, more than what is reasonably useful in a car like the 914 unless you're building an all-out track weapon.

Keep it T4 or porsche /6, subaru and chevy. Those are common and conversion parts are available. Both the subi and chevy the (new) conversion bits alone will cost close to a nice T4 2.0 rebuild.
The porsche /6 is likely the most expensive, but some subi/chevy builds also have had hefty budgets.

My personal opinion keep it air cooled, T4 or /6.

Go with anything but the Subaru. A Japanese engine in a German automobile like the Porsche 914 begins to disturb the balance in the universe. You will be afflicted with the "Subi curse". Strange things will begin to happen to you. You will be shunned by the "purists". Many Porsche owners will not want to speak to you and say things about you that are not very complimentary.


On the other hand, a modern engine that runs great and goes like "stink" can be fun. You know... if you like that kind of thing.

1st choice: Air cooled type 4 and 6 is awesome.

2nd choice: Water cooled inline 4 or a very small and light weight V6 or V8

Get your car running, drive it a while, then decide.

Never heard of anyone putting in a Ford Straight Six, so I would throw that ideal out the window. Bottom line is your budget.

If you want a car that holds its value then just freshen up your current motor.

If you want a car that when finished the drivetrain will be worth more then the car go with a 2.7, 3.0, 3.2 conversion

If you want a car that once converted can never go back then go with a V6 or V8

If you want a car that’s fast but comes with a lot of work to do then go Subaru

Do your homework, remember don’t forget about your suspension it should be your first upgrade

But I have to agree with Mepstein, get it running then drive it for a year before you make any decision. A good running 1.7 is a lot of fun. Of course a 3.2 is more fun.

Best advice

Most conversions end up one to ten+ years on jackstands.

How much money is in your budget?

I wasn't going to convert to the Ford engine. I just wanted everyone's opinions. I read a lot of threads about converting to different engines. Personally, I want to stay air cooled. I'd love a VW 6, but they are super expensive. I'm hoping I can find someone who's willing to part with a 2.0 for cheap! haha..

One just sold for $2k and Mcmark has a fresh rebuilt long block for $4k. Doesn’t get much better then that. Pull your engine, set aside if it’s numbers matching and build up the 2.0.

Truer words never spoken on the jack stands, 5 years for me! Best of luck with you project!
Click to view attachment

Its an otherwise stock clean car in need of minor restoration? Rebuild it to stock and enjoy it as your father did. The Nostalgia is 90% of the fun.



If its a custom car, or in need of major repair, AND your looking for performance out of it. Then I would say a subaru 6 paired with a subaru trans or a chevy LS motor paired with a boxster S 6 speed. One will net you 250hp one will net you 400hp. Both are great packages. A 250hp 914 is a FAST car, Its right at the point where you need to consider addressing the shortfallings of the suspension, brakes, chassis. A 400hp car needs these things addressed.

IMHO, the MOST important question you can ask yourself, which will make your path clear...

Do you want to spend a bunch of time and money being unique/original? Designing and fabricating parts? Making custom wiring?
Or do you want to drive the car?

Nothing wrong with either path.
1. A stock engine is the easiest to install, and while they may seem expensive, it's the cheapest solution by far. Keep that in mind...
2. A six cylinder Porsche engine is quite expensive, but has the greatest resale value by far.
3. A small-block Chevy (SBC) is the 'oldest' engine conversion. There are tons out there and lots of advice and help about how to make it work.
4. A Subaru (4 or 6) is a pretty common conversion. Adapter parts aren't as common/easy as the SBC, but a lot of people have done it and there's lots of help.
5. Anything else: You're on your own and you'll be doing a lot of fabrication, troubleshooting, etc all on your own. Not many people will be able to help and you'll have the least resale value of any of the above options. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a cheap/free motor means a cheap conversion.

We've seen a lot of people come through 914World with grand ideas and big projects. We've seen very few actually get completed. I'd urge you to get a good running 4 cylinder stock engine for a couple grand. The car will be running quickly and you'll have money left over to fix all the other inevitable issues. Most of which can be fixed while keeping the car driveable. Learn if you like owning and driving a 914 before you commit to a big engine swap.

Okay SJ, Here's only my thoughts on it - you'll do what you want.

As a 71 914/4 original family/2 owner (could be considered 1 owner-ish) with only 56,000+/- miles - which I assume is supported by the service documents/etc. from your Dad ..... a lot will depend on it's current condition.

IF it's still with original paint & interior - & iF those are in good shape today - then you might want to consider maintaining it as a survivor, but can do some mild & reversible engine upgrades (see below).

And that's also only IF it's a "numbers matching" original drivetrain (motor & transaxle).

If so, then you should probably first collect all of your Dad's documentation, the window sticker & dealer invoice etc. from the new sale (if he has them), & also get a COA from PCNA to document it for the above as a nice survivor (you'll get a discount for sending in a copy of the window sticker/dealer invoice &/or for mentioning the PCNA COA ad in Panorama magazine - even if not a member ~ maybe $10-20 off IIRC for each/both).

That said - IF it meets the nice low mile 1/2 owner "Survivor" original 914 (of any year), then it's probably one to consider keeping that way for value - both now & in the future. There just are not a lot of 56k mile time capsules around like that today.

You can still do some mods for your enjoyment, like getting another 1.7 or 2.0 flat 4 & have it built for performance to 1911-2000-ish cc (1.7) or 2056-2700-ish cc with either D-jet, modern EFI or Carbs. You could also get a sideshift trans either with or in addition to the substitute motor, for better shifting. Of course there are other ancillary parts to get if you do this, like the different exhaust, engine support bat, side-shift linkages, etc. - so it's not a simple drop-in, unless you stick with a "built-up" 1.7 & tailshifter.

However - whatever you do to it, do it in a way that you or a future owner can easily reverse & put it back to dead-stock original as a collectors car. Also try not to thrash & trash it, because that too will affect value - but they are meant to & need to be driven some, & babying them too much causing carbon build up & other running problems - but on the other hand you have more scarce parts today if something breaks, so some care is needed.

Keep in mind for Porsche Club Concours purposes, it has to be 75% original paint & 75% original upholstery - so up to 25% can be replaced in spot repairs or paint to still qualify, & many originality buyers, appraisers, other Concours groups, etc. think about it as still being "original" if 10, 15, 20, 25% has been replaced or touched-up over a 47-48 year life.

On the other hand - if it's in need of TLC & not great shape anymore, significant rust issues, etc. - then as others have said - do what you want, but I agree that the Ford I-6 is not a great choice, by both size/shape/length & many other factors; as there are many other better options whith many members on here for support - as noted above.

Also, if your Dad is still around, then ask him what he thinks & feels about it, since it's a family heirloom.

Here are a couple of pix of my buddy's original owner +/-61K mile `71 914/4, for which he's always getting offers & the serious ones were all well over $30K. No, the wood dash face, turned aluminum door sills/covers, hood badge, & wheels are not the factory ones - but they were VW of America dealer sold accessories available back in the day, which the original Porsche+Audi dealer put on the car when new by the dealer for a buyer who backed out, & then Jerry bought it as is.

It will give you an idea of what a really nice survivor 71 914/4 looks like for comparison, & you could post pix of yours/Dad's on here too.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

>>>> If yours looks like this, then don't muck with it, is my advice!
.

If you're not sure, then think on it a while before you decide.

Here's the Hagerty Valuation for a 72 914/4 1.7L - because for some reason they only list 914-6 under 1971 (they also erroneously list a 2.0 in 72 MY), but it will give you an idea of where a really nice low mile OO/1-family/father-son example might go for such as yours. The 1972 1.7L 914/4 shows recent values in #1 Concours condition of almost $30K!

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-1.7

Good Luck!
Tom
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You can probably ride a big wheel uphill in the snow faster than a 1971 1.7L 914 going downhill with a tailwind. That being said if you have an original car with documented mileage and you're only the second owner, car nerds love that sort of thing. Someday you might decide to sell it or keep it in the family and give it to someone else. You can buy another 914 any day of the week to put in a big motor to go fast.

Mine has been 'in progress' for over 5 years now ...

I am a suby guy so it's easy for me to just say do that. There are variables though.

IF your car is an original 56k car? It's been in dry storage for a long time. What kind of shape is it in? If it's in really nice shape? Any rust issues typical of an east coast car?

I would just get it running & drive it as is. While I love the subaru drivetrain in the 914. I hate to see a really nice stock 914 cut up for a conversion. With the values being where they are. Even a nice 1.7 motor car is worth more in stock form.

The pathway noted above is is the way I went. I pulled my matching numbers FI engine and crated it. Put in a dual-carb 2.2L type 4. Click to view attachment with a bunch more HP from another member here that was doing a 6 conversion and haven't been happier. If the 2.2 ever fails I can rebuild the 2.2 or just drop the original back in, no harm no foul.

Ask your Dad what he would do if he is still around.

I agree with Jeff ( this time) your Dad bought it so it must have been what he wanted at the time

Ask Pat Garvey.

Click to view attachment

Hey, slow but still fun!
.... & I can camp in it too!


Tom
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WRX turbo... Screw the purist in their anemic powered 914's. Get you some 250 hp at the wheels. Oh yeah go

Click to view attachment

Porsche was the originator of engine conversion for the 914. Enough said. Everything else is just a shoe horn away.

I would never....

With all due respect I call bullshit on this. I have a '72 1.7 and it hauls ass. I'm not a trained driver so it's plenty fast enough for a normal guy like me. You'll have plenty of fun in it if it's stock.
That said, I've driven a /6 and a 2.something and they also haul ass.

Lots of good advice here, but do what makes you happy. Have fun with the restoration!

Do what makes you happy, but be realistic. I am close to finishing my WRX powered 914, it is a blast to drive. That said, there are plenty of teething problems with it, and it is my experience that comes with engine swaps. But it sure is fun, drives so well I cancelled the order for a new Jaguar F Type because I was having so much fun driving it. It is also on jack stands tonite, figuring out axle issues.no matter what, it’ll be fun.

What the OP needs to know, is that Rick has an excellent V8 conversion using a Porsche 928 all aluminum V8!


Tom
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With all due respect I call billshit on this. I have a '72 1.7 and it hauls ass.

All 79 hp of haulin' ass??

Keeping it aircooled, there would be:
1) Porsche 4cyl (apparently Ferry regretted not doing it?)
2) Porsche 4cyl 4-cam Carrera (the engine would be worth more than the car, but what fun)
3) Porsche 6cyl of some sort
4) Corvair
5) There is one other....it would be fiendishly expensive, might not even be possible, but there is a (tenuous, admittedly) family connection, and it would sure as hell be the only one in the world....eBay engine

I would scrap the idea of the Ford straight 6. It is way too long to fit in the chassis, and the layout of the engine would require a LOT of butchering the chassis to get it to fit.

Personally, I would stick with air cooled. Less hassle because you don't have to install the radiator and plumbing.

Most 914 projects die when the owner gets frustrated with the progress of the upgrade, so I would go incremental in your upgrades. Get the stock 1.7 running, fix the chassis up, and drive it a bit. Then, while you can still drive it, find and buy a 2056 from someone who has decided to do a six conversion. Drive it for a bit. Then, again while you can still drive it, start buying up the stuff needed to do your own six conversion. For the six, I would recommend a 3.2 with the fuel injection on it. It is a bit more expensive than an early motor, but once installed, it is a joy to own and drive. With Motronic, it acts like a modern car.

That is probably the easiest route, and you get to drive it while you are upgrading. And you can stop at any time. If you like the 2056, then don't do the next upgrade.

Remember, this is YOUR car and you can do what you want to it.

Right - 4, 6 & 8. All factory built.

I wouldn't call it hauling ass, but the point of a 914 is momentum, you don't have to slow down for corners. Porsche's whole early racing career was based on underpowered, light, reliable, momentum cars.

Learn to drive a 1.7 well, then do a bigger engine.

One way I'd go is get the 1.7 working, then as you drive build a big T4. In the end you have a fun engine and a spare just in case.

Also, people always focus on hp as the performance figure. I'm sure I'm a minority here but there is another performance metric that is very important to me - mpg. The fact that you can spend a day having a blast in a 914 with a Type 4 and get north of 30 mpg doing it is quite special. I haven't found another car that even comes close. No doubt that "hang on to your ass" thrust is thrilling, but any engine you choose will have lots of fun factor.

I think the only ‘correct’ conversion is to a Porsche flat 6. It’s a great, rewarding project, but be ready to bring cash as it’s not cheap to do correctly. Luckily, many folks have already gone down that path, and lots of folks are making conversion parts available, so it can just about be a bolt-in project.

I’ll agree that the P6 is the desired engine but keep in mind that the Subi 6 delivers 30-39 MPG in these small categories s. Hard to match with a P6.

As often, your unwillingness to say anything that could possibly hurt someone's feelings obscures your true opinion Elliot.

Personally I like the six conversions but if you go water cooled the boxer Suby seems like a good idea. You know the new cars are reliable, but people forget that cars from the 70s were also considered reliable: people drove across country with them without a qualm. They are older now, but can be put back into fettle. So the original should be fun. Also I believe that the 1971 1.7 was more powerful than later versions.

I like 'em stock and with conversions.

Have you driven a stock or slightly upgraded /4 yet?

If not I suggest you find someone local to let you give it a go.

Now for conversions, I drove a Honda V6 powered converted car a few weeks ago and it was a f'n blast, better than some V8 conversions I've driven. It's also hard to beat the Subaru conversions since you can get a better transmission/shifting at the same time.

Hey you are local to me.

My take - as others have said, drop the 1.7 and store it. Buy McMark's $4k motor and drive that thing for the next 100k

Actually the 70-72 USA 1.7L at 80 HP was almost as much as the 75-76 2.0L with 88 HP, & IIRC in Calif where the crapal;ytic converter was required it dropped to something like 78 or 82 (also IIRC the 73 CA 1.7 was dropped to maybe only 69 HP for smog required detuning IIRC), but I can't find my chart figures on that right now.

Before I bought my 73 2L in 75, I test drove a number of 70-76 914s - from the 70-73 1.7L, 74 1.8, 73 & 74 GA 2.0Ls, to the then new 75 & 76 GC 2.0Ls at the dealers. I found the heavier new 75 & 76 2Ls at the dealers no more powerful than the early 70-72 1.7L because the bigger & heavier 7 mph impact F & R bumpers (BUBS) added a few hundred pounds to the overall weight & dropped the power-to-weight ratio to almost the same as the 70-72 1.7Ls (of course smog controls did this to everything, & the 75-76 GC 2L was better than the 75 1.8L or 73 CA 1.7L).

BTW - McMark has been building the RABY 2056's for many on here since RABY MASS-IV-E stopped doing them a few years back, with Jake Raby's blessing as their designated 2056 kit builder IIRC. The 2056 is still able to run with the factory D-jet EFI, so it's a good setup for 110-125 HP.

But I agree with others - get it running good with the original 1.7 first, then have some fun with it. Once you learn conservation of momentum, then you can keep up with the bigger boys in many cases on the twisties, as did the 356s, 912s & 914/4's of yore!

That, in addition to my prior comments on your Dad's "garage find queen" - if it's in great shape!

So when will you post some pix of your/your Dan's 914!!??

OK SJ - I have to do it ....


Cheers!
Tom
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A pair of BUB's actually weigh 80lbs total, including brackets. Early bumpers weigh 25lbs for the pair.

Does that include the 4 shocks, mounts & any other hardware & unibody strengthening Mark?

I've heard others throw around +/-200 lbs. heavier all in on here before for the BUBS.

IIRC to total weight of the new 76 2.0 which I test drove before buying my 73 2L, was about 200 lbs. more than the "book curb weight" for the 73, but that undoubtedly would've also included additional weight for the Cat converter & all the plumbing & sensors, etc. as required on the CA 76 GC 2.0L's.

I know that is was no contest performance-wise between that new 76 2.0 vs. the 73 2.0 which I did end up buying - despite the monthly payment being the same for the beautiful new 76 Ancona Blue over White 914!

I'd actually first contacted the seller on my 73 in Nov. 75, but delayed so I could drive the 76 in a blue which I really liked more, & to check out financing between the 2 new 100% 60 month vs. 36 month 80% with 20% down pmt. - ergo my actual date for purchase wasn't until Dec. 75.

So I know first hand the difference, but they're ALL great & fun little cars in truth!


Tom
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Yes, total for the bumpers. I did not cut any sheetmetal from the car to weigh independently so add a pound or two.

But Mark, did also you weigh the 4 bumper shocks behind the bumper & their mounting hardware too - along with the bumpers & covers?

That was what I meant - not meaning that you had to cut & weigh the sheet metal.


Tom
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Much experienced good advice has been given here.

Based on mine and several nearby friends recent experiences, you should maintain a "6" conversion option on your radar screen. It is not a difficult task compared to other non air-cooled options, and staying in the 911 2.4 to 3.2 liter range is more than enough power for spirited street and touring driving. These conversions are great fun and add value to your car.

yes.
The bumper shocks are a couple pounds each.
Granted, the 55lb differential from an early car is about 2 1/2% and not insignificant on our cars.

This is a great looking non stock car. The only thing better is it is in California

Bob B

That is a killer deal. Best part is you can do the swap in a weekend and be back in the driver's seat.