I just got my fuel pump TODAY and I will be starting the SIX up ASAP. I would like to here some tip/thoughts on;
- How long should I run it
- What RPM

I installed new rings, had some top end work done, rebuilt the webers..etc

I am hoping it will fire right up but who knows? The carbs are more then likely not dialed in but should be close, timing will be close (I set it at TDC).

Once it is started should I immediately start tuning it? Timing and then the carbs?

Should I stop it to check the plug color to make sure I am not running too lean/rich?

Cheers

Just my $.02 so don't take this as gospel.

This is what I did:
-have an oil temp guage.
-start it and run for 20 minutes or until aroune 200F (which ever comes first)
-we then changed the oil
-then let it fully cool overnight.
-start a 2nd time for 1hour
-change the oil, do the valves, and let if fully cool/cure again.
-Then drive it 500 miles and oil/valves one last time

You will have to set the rough timing right away, but when its tight and cold you can't do the carbs much anyways.

we were told to follow this for a new motor.
you may not have to go to such extremes on a top end job, although I was surprised at how much debris was in the oil filter at the very first change.

Even if you didn't do the valves and the oil as often, I would do the valves once at a minimum and go ahead and change the filter for safety sake at least once.

I was told that the 20minute/1hour steps with full cool down inbetween allowed for thermal heat cycle of the motor and was an important step.

brant

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice
2: Insert chopstick and break it off
3: Replace spark plug
4: Start engine and drive

QUOTE (914RS @ Jun 14 2005, 11:01 AM)

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice 2: Insert chopstick and break it off 3: Replace spark plug 4: Start engine and drive

I think also remember to heat cycle it every time you start it for the first few times you run it if nothing else.

That chopstick thing was classic.

Good thing I wasn't eating or drinking.

This is exciting to hear that you are ready to start the SIX. Good going.

KT

Are they new cams?

If so you need to run it at 2000 rpm for about 20 mins, to break in the cams/rockers.

If they are the old cams being reused, just start it let it warm up and tune away

Thanks... I am using the old cams that still ooked okay.

The hard part is stopping myself from running out there and firing that bad boy up...

I need to run through my check list and make sure the wiring is okay..

Maybe tomorrow night.

I should have my back-yard test run station wired tonight

QUOTE (914RS @ Jun 14 2005, 03:01 PM)

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice 2: Insert chopstick and break it off 3: Replace spark plug 4: Start engine and drive

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 14 2005, 01:51 PM)

I should have my back-yard test run station wired tonight

that thing is scary

Are the cloth braided vacuum hoses the same hoses used for fuel?

I have some new cloth braided hoses and would like to use it for the fuel lines from the fire wall connections to the carbs, if possible

Cheers

Will you get on with it!

Go outside and start the engine!

Okay the crane stuff doesn't seem to be working too well for me

I had to give up last night after I had enough crap come up. .

I am running a Crane ignition system (Hi-6, PS-91, and a XR 700). I printed out the instructions today and will double check, for the 5th time) the connections.

The engine does crank over but as soon as I turn the ACC on...magic smoke appeared from the Hi-6. I saw the smoke very quickly and turned the ACC off. I have no idea if things are toast right now. I'll find out tonight...It's going to be a long day at work waiting.

ALSO, the cam oil feed lines are leaking at the connection to the cam tower. Are two washers used or one? I have the banjo fitting sandwiched with two washers

cheers

uhoh

The HI-6 is toast.
I took it apart and part of the board is fired. Looks to be related to the (-) from the coil.

I am 100% sure the system was connected correctly Black is (-) and orange (+). I am using a crane PS-91 coil, well I was.

I guess that's what I get for buying USED electronics. It could have been the coil or the Hi-6. I bought all pieces from the same guy?

$200 down the drain and now I need to buy a new one....These conversions fun .

Can I just plug in a OEM CD unit, just to get this engine fired up? I would like to keep the XR-700.

Cheers

mate that is the risk ,secondhand electrics the cost is there but new is always better think peace of mind

The xr700 can be used to fire the stock CD box, getting a good tach signal is a toughy, I had the crane nee Allison xr700 box in my 911 in 1985 or so so its been a longgggg time since I wired it up.. that car is long gone


I also had Hi6 PS91 and xr700 firing my 911 about 4 years ago.. I rmember it was a pretty straight install.. but I needed the crane tach adapter


again I dont recall the wiring sequence..

sorry to many lost neurons.

The wiring wasn't too bad. That is why I am unsure why the ground connectoin/wire would have heated up some much.

I will call Crane on Monday to see if there is a way I can test the PS-91 coil?

I almost feel like

Damn , I was hoping for the OH YA She fired,
Instead We got the Damn it Fried.
Som Bitch, You'll get it!!!
Hope too hear some Revs Soon

hey man dont sweat it! I had the same problem, crank crank, leak, no fire etc...now im smiling every time i start it!!!

xr700- make sure you got the optic set up all the way, set to TDC, see if the light on the box is lit. set towards the early side of the slot....like, if it turns ccw, set it as far clockwise as possible till light goes off, then back ccw till it lights again. Just a tip that i didnt quite get from the instructions.

Thanks..

I tested the XR 700 signal and it is there (Connected a test light to the yellow wire and it flashes my test light).

The power light on the Hi-6 lights but it doesn't blink. It should blink when the signal from the XR 700 is received....Mine doesn't blink and I get no spark. Seems like the HI-6 isn't making use of the signal

I don't think the XR 700 has a light on it??? I'll need to take a look.



Thanks again :beer1

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 17 2005, 09:31 PM)

The power light on the Hi-6 lights but it doesn't blink

mine doesn't blink with the cap off - i think sunlight overwhelms the sensor. works fine when all buttoned up. i use a DVM to do static timing. PITA but you only hafta do it once. i have all the Crane/HI-6 documentation if you want to compare notes...

yes on the 2 sealing washers on the cam lines...
are you using the restrictors or the originals?

Thanks..

the oil lines are OEM. I used some elbow grease on the cam feed lines and it seemed to stop the leak/drip.

Since I have some down time now

I was looking at my exhaust

Should the end of the headers be inline (or close) to the end of the tranny?

It seems the 914-6 headers are shorter then the the 2.0L heat exchangers??

I have a triad and the flanges are not deep enough to clear the tranny? I need a 6-8" piece to go between the headers and the Triad Wonder if I can get this piece at a FLAPS?

Cheers

You just want to run the motor on the test bench, right?

You don't need the CDI at this point to do that.

12v to the + coil.
condensor wire to the -.

Start it, please...

KT

???KT?????

I don't need a CDI?? Details Why is a CDI used on a SIX and not the four?

I am just running the engine out of the car to get it tuned and somewhat set up.

I have an XR 700 installed so are you saying I can hook up the engine like a 4 would be?

I am calling crane, on Monday, to see if they work on teh HI-6 units and if it would be cheeper to have it rebuilt by them to to buy a new one.

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 19 2005, 09:34 AM)

I don't need a CDI?? Details Why is a CDI used on a SIX and not the four?

911's didn't get CDI until 1969. you don't need it just to start an engine on a test stand. yes, you can use standard Kettering Battery-condenser ignition just like every 911 from 1965-1968.

Kettering ignition runs out of energy at high engine speeds, and as engine performance increased, plug heat ranges got colder, and 911's started running richer for performance, and plugs started fouling. CDI is A Good Thing - but it is not a necessary thing to simply start and dial in a stand-alone engine.

I didn't add the MSD 6AL ignitition until after the motor had been in the car for some time.

It is highly recommended, as it will smooth out the idle and improve cold starting. ( day and night )
Acceleration is greatly improved, due to the ability to run a big spark plug gap and the rev limiter is the bonus...

Do you still have my bench test wire harness picture?
$5 set-up.

KT

you all keep basturdizing my wonderful perfect home electric supplies.... sorry it is just the anal master electrician in me.

and kerry if you want i can come up and play for a day, when is the BQ

Scott, this set up that I showed has never failed me.
Looks are completley unimportant.

What would you do for $5 that worked equally as well, and didn't take all day to win some science fair blue ribbon?

Sorry, for all that...
Kerry wants to run his motor. I'm showing a way that allows him to do that in minutes, and when he's done he can throw away the kit and feel good about it.

I kept mine though...future testing

KT

Thanks...

It's been a bad weekend and didn't get any better.

I need to step back and redo things. I have no Idea why the freak'n thing is not working.

My XR 700 module is toast..no signal at all. I could have sworn it worked yesterday. It seems like the ground wires are getting very HOT.

Is the spade connector on the starter is grounded????? I tried two different starters and they both seem the same. I connect a DVM between the spade connector and ground and it is defiantly grounded. The yellow wire applies 12+ to the spade connector.

Looks like this weekend cost me about $250 in parts.

How doe sthis look?

I'm not sure, but I think the switched ( key on ) power needs to go into the CDI first, then it terminates at the + coil.
Your diagram shows the coil with power before the CDI gets it.

KT

The diagram above is without the CDI...Just the points conversion XR 700 and a OEM coil.

I'll post the HI-6 diagram in a few

CDI or HI-6

The fuel pump shouldn't run off of the ignition circut, it should have its own.

QUOTE (sixnotfour @ Jun 20 2005, 11:11 AM)

The fuel pump shouldn't run off of the ignition circut, it should have its own.

this isn't an in-car schematic, it's a test-stand schematic...

Kerry - those look okayfine to me...

IMO - go get a big ignition-rated momentary switch for your start button; you'd be unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough...

Yes this is just what I am using to test the engine out of the car.

"unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough... "

Please explain this??? As soon as the engine fires I will switch the starter off, just like I would with the key'd ignition? Am I missing something here?

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 20 2005, 11:42 AM)

"unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough... " Please explain this???

switches have voltage ratings for a reason, and a DC switch is LOTS bigger than an AC switch of the same voltage for an important reason: AC requires a LOT more voltage to sustain an arc (since it goes to zero 60 times a second).

trying to switch 20A DC of starter solenoid current through a 20A 110V household wall switch could have unintended consequences - arc in the switch, welded contacts... it's not so much that it's highly likely (although i'm sure this is at least part of what Scott was objecting to...) but that the consequences would be unpleasant.

a proper 12VDC starter switch can't be more than $10 at the FLAPS (for a really nice one) and it just strikes me as the appropriate thing to do.

also - "stuff happens" when you go to light up a new engine. big oil leak? left a rag on top of the carbs... all manner of unexpected stuff. that's why i like a spring-return momentary switch that cannot remain engaged if i need to deal with something critical. household switches aren't like that. if a proper switch were expensive, or hard to come by, it might tip the scale, but they're neither...

Thanks.

So far things have been very unpleasent..to say the least so I'll pick up a switch this week.

one other thing to add...

the heavy red and black wires on the HI-6 (or a MSD, for that matter) need to go directly to the battery and an excellent ground. DO NOT try to power the whole unit from Terminal 15 !

those units use Terminal 15 as a turn-on signal only - the heavy power and ground leads need a direct, low-impedance connection directly to the battery (or its equivalent).

my 911's HI-6 uses a 10-Ga wire to the +12 terminal on the starter post.

Well I am shipping the whole Crane setup off to CraneCams tomorrow. They will check out all of the parts and let me know what is bad. Should have the answer by Next Monday.

Cheers

Okay I heard back from CraneCams and my stuff is all JUNK. I sent my wiring diagrams and they said the diagrams are fine.

The guy at CraneCams then told me I don't need the Hi-6 or any CDI for my engine. He said the Crane XR3000 and a PS-91 coil will work great with no CD unit, on any NA engine that runs under 7000rpm.

Thoughts? I am going to order some new parts this week (Today if I can) so I can start this dam engine up.

Cheers

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 29 2005, 10:43 AM)

...The guy at CraneCams then told me I don't need the Hi-6 or any CDI for my engine. ...

*need* ?

i suppose not. no 911 had CDI until 1969.

your engine will definitely run on a Kettering (condenser/coil) ignition.
i think you will find it runs -better- with CDI, whether or not it's a multi-spark system or not (although i like them...)

if you don't use a rev-limited CDI, do please get a rev-limited distributor rotor; a stuck throttle can ruin your day.

IMO - go with the simplest, cheapest thing you can do NOW to get the system running. upgrade later if you want. like over the winter...

Ya he said to set the spark plug gap to .042 and this combined with the HOT spark will reduce/stop any fouling of the plugs.

Unless I hear anything major from the group, I will go this route.

If you come down for the cookout you can tak eit for a spin and tell me how it is running. I have never driven a SIX so I won't have much to compare it to.

Cheers

It runs Me is a happy 914 owner now.


I can get it to idle but the POPPING is crazy. It pops is a sequence from cylinder to cylinder. A very sharp POP out the carbs. As soon as I hit move the throttle it POPs and shoots a flame (Wel it did once) out the carb.

My guess is it is lean

I am going to be doing some searching for soem tuning tips. I tried to tun the mixture screws out alittle to see it that helped but it didn't seem to.

Cheers soon to be

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jul 9 2005, 05:57 PM)

My guess is it is lean

hey, congratulations !!

your timing might be a tad advanced too...

good job !

I have a small video of it running and you can hear the pops.

Can any one host this for me?

Kerrys914@yahoo.com

Timing is set close to 30deg @ 3000RPM (Best I can with it running like it is.).

It's a 2.2T so I think it 30deg is correct

T engines are timed at 35deg @ 6000rpm

E & S are set at 30deg@ 6000

full advance can be expected at 3000rpm but check it at 6000 per the books

Well it WAS the timing. I forgot I marked TDC to help with the cam timing . SO I had two marks and choose the wrong one, I timed the car at 3000rpm to TDC (or very close to it).

I scrapped off the TDC mark and set things to about 30 deg at 3000. I don't feel ready yet go up to 6000prm to set the timing. I'll check BA's book for the actual specs later.

I am done for the night I guess the Triad is a little loud for 9:00pm at night

Tomorrow I will sync the carbs and change the oil.

Cheers