So perhaps I'm slightly not overly excited about smashing my hands up there to do the adjustment (ie lazy) but.... I'm about to try my first valve adjustment, is there a reason we don't drop the exhaust out of the way? Seems it'd be MUCH easier without that blocking all the workspace!

It can be dirty and uncomfortable, and dirty. I think it can also produce some wear and tear on the heads. Often the studs come out of the heads, and grind their rusty way back into place. This puts wear on the threads in the aluminum. Although the copper gaskets are softer than aluminum they aren’t a great deal softer. So there is mashing required to get a seal. The fasteners rust no matter what, so they can break off. That is what I was thinking anyway.

Just to note that there is a difference between "valve" and "value"... It's a bit unusual to see the same typo twice in one title!

Some people do like to remove the exhaust to adjust the valves. Especially on 75+ or 914-6es with heat exchangers.

It's kind of a pain, though, especially if the exhaust hasn't been off recently. The nuts love to seize onto the studs, which can break off in the head if you're unlucky. And it can be challenging to get the pipes to seal to the heads, especially with SSIs that have been abused in the past.

So yes, it can and has been done. It isn't for everyone, but it certainly is a viable strategy.

--DD

Well it looks like there is a very odd autocorrect setup on my computer! Thanks for the heads up.

I'll give it a try tomorrow without taking off the exhaust,

I think we should call it valve clearance inspection .................
Not every valve needs adjusting. It would be shame to break off an exhaust stud just to get some space, when only 3 of the 8 valves need adjusting.
I'd say measure them all then determine your action plan ..............
My .02c for tonight.

Removing the exhaust to adjust valves is kinda like turning the car upside down to drain the oil. Your going to cause yourself a lot of work, and possibly a lot of money repairing what you screwed up. I'm a real old-timer. I will not removing the exhaust unless absolutely necessary!

I'd rather pull the motor and gearbox than pull the heater boxes once I've finally got them to seal up...

Good deal. I was looking for an easy way out but it looks like I'll be doing a "valve clearance inspection" to see if that is the source of my engine knock tonight.

If there's anything else you're thinking about doing to your engine in addition to your first valve adjustment, (cleaning, powdercoating tins, new seals, etc.) I think you'd benefit from dropping the engine. Adjusting the valves out of the car the first time will give you a better feel for what's needed when you have limited sight lines and access. That said, if adjusting valves is ALL you need to do, dropping the engine would be overkill...and you'll probably spend the same amount of time fiddling with the valves in the car.

If the value adjustment doesn't cure my little engine knock, I think dropping the engine will be a project to tackle over the winter.

My dad dropped the engine and had it totally rebuilt about 10 years ago, but the car has less then 500 miles on it since it was rebuilt... so I can't imagine it needs much, but I am very much not a mechanic and learning as I go!

valves make tapping sounds. if there is a knocking sound then there is a bigger problem

This is a video I took a month or so ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STdrgyh0hhA

It's very consistent, not random.

Not a valve adjustment problem. Dropped valve seat more likely. Or possibly a huge exhaust leak. Remove the valve cover and see if you don't have a valve that is way way out of adjustment

That's how mine sounded when it dropped a valve seat

but I hope we're wrong.

Well me too, I can't find a darn thing online about how to fix that so... that makes me nervous!

Hopefully you are not dropping a valve seat
most likely there would be a significant compression loss in that cylinder that you would be able to detect through a leak down test.

but fixing a valve seat would require dropping the motor, pulling the head and having a specialist that is familiar with aluminum heads on air cooled cars make you and install another valve seat.

this would need to be done before the entire seat dropped into the combustion chamber and blew up the rest of the motor (possible, bend rod, hole in block, holed piston, contaminated oil passages, etc)

most people that actually have a dropping valve seat would consider pulling the head from the other bank and consider having those seats checked at the same time

whom ever last touched the head, could possibly not have the experience required to rebuild the head and seats correctly.... causing one to come loose and putting the other 7 seats at risk for a similar fate.

if they were rebuilt by a known and skilled specialist... you would be more likely to be safe that only one seat is loose and the other 7 are not at risk.

many people will go ahead and fully rebuild the motor at this point... especially if its a tired motor. Sitting for a decade is not good on a motor. but possibly further inspection will show your rings, valve springs and other items are fine and not in need of replacement or rebuild.... and possibly you will need to replace some of those items after 10 years.

an expert with experience, or a a lot of research and careful measuring can help make that decision.





Adjust your valves
then if the noise still exists... don't drive it without digging deeper

I'm pretty sure that when he goes to adjust the valves he'll find "one of these in not like the other"!

If you have to pull one head you might as well pull the other and get it inspected at the same time. Once the engine is out all the other "while you are in there" spending starts

You would be able to detect it by listening to the starter. If there is a pattern to the sound that drops out every fourth time, there's a good chance you have one "dead hole". The sound would be something like "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-..".

That was how I found the last dropped seat on my car....

--DD

Finally got the stupid cover off.

My feeler gauges are somewhere safe, I will have to search around for them. They all feel secure, one of them does not feel any different than the others.

How about the other side?

Yes, there are 4 more on the other side...

did You find each cylinder’s tdc?

Sorry dumb question. But the details matter

Ha, duh. There is my ignorance coming through... I opened the one on the passenger side and thought "oh thats good, a bunch of metal didn't fall out..." and was rather excited.

Not once did it occur to me, or any of the instructions I read online, there would be a second set of valves!!

crap.

Yup, Passenger side is for cylinder 3 and 4, drivers side cylinder 1 and 2.

Couple of tips. To unclip the bale runs a shop towel through the loop in the center and pull hard from below. Put each cyl at TDC and check the rocker position. If a seat is dropped ( inwards ) the rocker will have a lot of slop. I correctly adjusted valve will move just enough to make a click when moved by hand. Valves stretch and get longer. I would do a compression check. That will tell you a lot. Low number could be dropped seat, out of adjustment valve. Exhausts grow more due to the heat on them. If you have number below 100 psi of greater than 20 psi range after adjustment it is time for a valve job.
You may consider not completely dropping the motor but unbolting the trans mounts, engine mounts, cables and drop it down a few inches for better access. Leave the CV's attached. Still a lot of work. I would not remove the exhaust as you may break a stud.

And that is why I won't remove heat exchangers unless absolutely necessary.

Good stuff. Thank you.

Current plan is to undo the other side tonight and see if anything appears out of whack. If nothing sticks out, I'll put it back together and do a compression test. The valves on the passenger side were tight, I could not move them by hand... but I also didn't put them in the correct TDC so I suppose it's not fair to say they are too tight.

Guess I need to google "how to do a compression test"

haha

Here's some good reading.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...alve_adjust.htm

I cheat. I have a bracket (Super In Law creation) that holds one wheel in place and I do it on a 2 post lift. The hardest part is marking the flywheel.

You have to put them at TDC to see whether you have a problem or not

dropping the cover and looking will not tell you
you must rotate the motor. Put each cylinder at TDC. and with no experience to help you judge what the correct amount of free play should be..... you must buy another feeler gauge and check each valve while you have that cylinder at TDC

(there is the captain crusty technique... but I think it would only confuse you at this point. get a Haynes manual. put each cylinder at TDC.... or take it to a mechanic... but this is something you can easily do yourself)

Drivers side.... I struggled for about 30 minutes to get the dang cover off but once I decided to remove the wheel it provided much more room and it came off pretty easily.

Definitely have an issue with the very first valve (towards the front of the car).

All the others are secure in their 'seat' (?) but the one in the front I can move back and forth (towards the front of the car and towards the back of the car). It's obviously on a spring or something because it puts itself back at the start.

Visually it also appears to sit slightly lower then the rest of the valves (picture attached).

Time for your first engine drop.

Seems like it! Getting the engine out doesn't seem too bad,

This is a great step by step for rookies like me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMesGrjgcvg&t=1s

So I guess I'll order the jack adapter and get to work. Not really sure what to do after I get it out, but I'll figure that out when I get it out!

http://tangerineracing.com/tools.htm

Thanks for telling me to stop driving it before it turned into something worse,

yes this jack adaptor is great, it is what i used to remove mine and while it is nice to have a hand to help you , it can be done by yourself. - I just put my motor and transmission back up into place this past weekend, and only issue i had was clearance with the fuel injection rails on each side- it would clear more easily if you disconnect those - just make sure you also disconnect the ground strap that goes from the back ofhte transmission to the underside of the trunk.

I have carbs, so no fuel injection lines to worry about... Actually have a single carb so while it's out might as well push that to a double carb setup... and replace the leaking seal/gasket on the side shifter thing... I can see this will be an expensive drop.

I diagnose Dirk Wright's desease! Prognosis is a full resto! Lol

Glad you found the video helpful.

As long as you're considering upgrading from a single carb, you may want to think about restoring the FI system. Between the cost of the new carb(s) and the linkage, my guess is that for about the same money you could take the car back to stock. I've had carb and FI setups and prefer the FI. Far less tweaking and maintenance. The only thing I miss about carbs is the sound.

I don't know which engine you have, but there was a complete D jet system on ebay that didn't meet reserve. You could try contacting the seller and make a reasonable offer...or put a WTB in the classifieds. You'll need to have the right fuel pump and restore the return line to the fuel tank, but I think you'll be happy you did.

here's a link to that ebay listing. Good luck!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-D-Jet-green-...=p2047675.l2557

If you are waffling on Chris's engine cradle, don't.

Go buy it. Like, now.

Its one of the most useful tools you will have when playing with these cars, and its invaluable everytime you need to drop or shift the engine around.

Get one with the cutout for a tuna can. Even if your car does not have one now, it will probably have one later. Better to be ready then to have to go nuts with a hole saw some time in the future.

Zach

Not waffling at all, it's on my shortlist of things I need before starting this project... along with a 3 ton jack, triple square thing referenced in the video, engine stand, impact wrench seems handy so guess i'll snag one of those... basically everything

Just a quick note that Chris's cradle doesn't work with Harbor Freight jacks that have an allen bolt holding the "dish" or whatever it's called to the jack. I'd see if Chris can provide a recommendation of compatible jacks.

I emailed him a photo of my adapter, which was a 6" long piece of 2x4 that I drilled a hole in the middle to fit his cradle's pin in and he said he didn't have any other solution. Was honestly pretty sketch, but I had a helper when I installed my motor last time and we made it work.

As you can tell, the whole "mechanic" thing is far from my day job... BUT...

As I look around to buy a engine stand and a engine hoist I have to ask.... Why are they not combined? Why can't I find an engine hoist that has the plate and bolts? The structure of both are nearly the same.

What are you gonna do with a hoist?

Once I drop the engine onto the jack & plate, i need somehow to get it up onto the engine stand...

Or working with n the floor is perfectly acceptable

After you remove the trans, get a couple of friends to help. Ain't that friggin heavy

Engine stand:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lbs-capa...tand-69886.html


Engine yoke for type IV:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-ALLEY-PORSCHE-V...yim&vxp=mtr


Shop crane:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-capacit...rane-69512.html

Lifting straps (2 needed):

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-12-ft-2000-...ling-62721.html


3 foot Length of heavy chain and carabiner needed as well

Thanks. I didn't realize the standard plate that came with the engine mount needed to be changed.

I'm not overly concerned about grabbing a few neighbors to get the engine onto the stand, I was just thinking if there was combo engine stand / crane I would just buy that. Seems there is not.

So, I nailed it on post#13? Imagine that!

Sadly, yes. I was hoping you were wrong!

Now I'm going to get the engine all cleaned up, put on the engine stand, and then I'll post a "what do i do now" thread!

Get a Haynes manual or the Tom Wilson engine rebuild book. It'll save a lot of questions and long answers. There is a lot of good info here, but a lot of bs info too. Get Tom's book and read. You'll be many hours ahead. Gather all the info you can before asking questions. An intelligent question receives more intelligent and accurate answers.