isdyl
Feb 9 2019, 07:10 AM
Hi - so I'm just preparing for my maiden voyage - the car must have been off the road for at least 10 years judging by the rust in the floor when I got it in June. I've changed the fan belt this morning, but there are a few thingsI saw that I think need tidying. Its got a mid mounted progressive weber (yes I know), and there looks to be a port on each side near where the headers meet the tin - should some pipes be connected to these please? Also in one photo showing the port on the passenger side there is a wire coming out of the tin with a female spade connector - you can see it in the photo. There is also a green with red trace wire coming out of the loom near the distributor which isn't connected to anything.
The car runs, but not well. Not sure how far I will get down the road!
Thanks, Dylan
ClayPerrine
Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
isdyl
Feb 9 2019, 09:05 AM
Thanks very much!
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM)
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
mgphoto
Feb 9 2019, 09:23 AM
In your first photo it looks like your accelerator cable is wrapped around some wiring, that will cause several problems.
isdyl
Feb 18 2019, 11:22 AM
Yes, it does look a bit of a mess I admit. The accelerator cable isn't actually touching anything though and is attached to a rather inadequate 32/36 central mounted weber carb. I've got it running ok now, but the throttle doesn't snap shut when you take your foot off the pedal. The spring at the carburettor is ok, but I'm struggling to see if there is any kind of return spring at the foot pedal. Theres some rods that go off somewhere - is there a spring down there too please?
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Feb 9 2019, 09:23 AM)
In your first photo it looks like your accelerator cable is wrapped around some wiring, that will cause several problems.
mgphoto
Feb 18 2019, 01:30 PM
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 18 2019, 09:22 AM)
Yes, it does look a bit of a mess I admit. The accelerator cable isn't actually touching anything though and is attached to a rather inadequate 32/36 central mounted weber carb. I've got it running ok now, but the throttle doesn't snap shut when you take your foot off the pedal. The spring at the carburettor is ok, but I'm struggling to see if there is any kind of return spring at the foot pedal. Theres some rods that go off somewhere - is there a spring down there too please?
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Feb 9 2019, 09:23 AM)
In your first photo it looks like your accelerator cable is wrapped around some wiring, that will cause several problems.
No spring at the pedal for the accelerator, I think it is the brake pedal that has the spring.
isdyl
Feb 18 2019, 03:51 PM
Ok thanks - so just the spring at the carb or throttle body pulls the foot pedal back up? I'll beed to get a stronger spring then.
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Feb 18 2019, 01:30 PM)
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 18 2019, 09:22 AM)
Yes, it does look a bit of a mess I admit. The accelerator cable isn't actually touching anything though and is attached to a rather inadequate 32/36 central mounted weber carb. I've got it running ok now, but the throttle doesn't snap shut when you take your foot off the pedal. The spring at the carburettor is ok, but I'm struggling to see if there is any kind of return spring at the foot pedal. Theres some rods that go off somewhere - is there a spring down there too please?
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Feb 9 2019, 09:23 AM)
In your first photo it looks like your accelerator cable is wrapped around some wiring, that will cause several problems.
No spring at the pedal for the accelerator, I think it is the brake pedal that has the spring.
Rob-O
Feb 18 2019, 07:22 PM
With the center mounted carb there is usually a spring from the carb to the tin at the back of the engine. That snaps the throttle plate closed.
I agree with Clay, though. I’d look into sourcing the FI parts and reinstall it. Car runs so much better with FI (and Clay was a huge help getting mine up and running).
isdyl
Feb 19 2019, 01:50 AM
Thanks - I would definitely consider FI but there are a lot of parts missing that I would need and over here in the uk they are few and far between. I’m not sure if it would be L or D-jetronic being a ‘73 but assuming D there’s airbox, throttle body, MPS, ECU, injectors, inlet runners etc etc. There’s no doubt FI would be nicer to have, but it’s a lot of work and expense. At least a pair or Weber 40’s are sold over here for type 4 engines.
QUOTE(Rob-O @ Feb 18 2019, 07:22 PM)
With the center mounted carb there is usually a spring from the carb to the tin at the back of the engine. That snaps the throttle plate closed.
I agree with Clay, though. I’d look into sourcing the FI parts and reinstall it. Car runs so much better with FI (and Clay was a huge help getting mine up and running).
ClayPerrine
Feb 19 2019, 06:47 AM
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 19 2019, 01:50 AM)
Thanks - I would definitely consider FI but there are a lot of parts missing that I would need and over here in the uk they are few and far between. I’m not sure if it would be L or D-jetronic being a ‘73 but assuming D there’s airbox, throttle body, MPS, ECU, injectors, inlet runners etc etc. There’s no doubt FI would be nicer to have, but it’s a lot of work and expense. At least a pair or Weber 40’s are sold over here for type 4 engines.
QUOTE(Rob-O @ Feb 18 2019, 07:22 PM)
With the center mounted carb there is usually a spring from the carb to the tin at the back of the engine. That snaps the throttle plate closed.
I agree with Clay, though. I’d look into sourcing the FI parts and reinstall it. Car runs so much better with FI (and Clay was a huge help getting mine up and running).
How do you get dual Webers passed the MOT??
isdyl
Feb 19 2019, 07:35 AM
They don't check emissions on vehicles this old, but also now there is no MOT test for vehicles over 40 years old in the UK. Or road tax. Insurance costs me £60 a year and that's all that's required.
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 19 2019, 06:47 AM)
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 19 2019, 01:50 AM)
Thanks - I would definitely consider FI but there are a lot of parts missing that I would need and over here in the uk they are few and far between. I’m not sure if it would be L or D-jetronic being a ‘73 but assuming D there’s airbox, throttle body, MPS, ECU, injectors, inlet runners etc etc. There’s no doubt FI would be nicer to have, but it’s a lot of work and expense. At least a pair or Weber 40’s are sold over here for type 4 engines.
QUOTE(Rob-O @ Feb 18 2019, 07:22 PM)
With the center mounted carb there is usually a spring from the carb to the tin at the back of the engine. That snaps the throttle plate closed.
I agree with Clay, though. I’d look into sourcing the FI parts and reinstall it. Car runs so much better with FI (and Clay was a huge help getting mine up and running).
How do you get dual Webers passed the MOT??
PanelBilly
Feb 19 2019, 09:24 AM
You might check that the throttle wire isn’t wrapped around the clutch cable. That would cause it to not move freely
Spoke
Feb 19 2019, 09:29 AM
If you don't want to do FI, then find a set of dual carbs. You can dick around all day with that single carb and it will still run poorly. Going WOT will generally just produce much black smoke and no more power.
I found a set of used dual Weber carbs. They came on a 1.8L engine with SSHE all for $500.
isdyl
Feb 19 2019, 11:27 AM
Thanks, I'll check that.
QUOTE(PanelBilly @ Feb 19 2019, 09:24 AM)
You might check that the throttle wire isn’t wrapped around the clutch cable. That would cause it to not move freely
isdyl
Feb 19 2019, 11:36 AM
Yes a set of dual Weber carbs would be the more economical solution in the UK, but even a pair of carbs sell for £450 and then there's inlet manifolds, filters and linkage to purchase. Nothing like that is cheap over here. Before I do that I'm going to give the single progressive a chance as it's there and free. I actually picked up another one on eBay for £20 for parts.
QUOTE(Spoke @ Feb 19 2019, 09:29 AM)
If you don't want to do FI, then find a set of dual carbs. You can dick around all day with that single carb and it will still run poorly. Going WOT will generally just produce much black smoke and no more power.
I found a set of used dual Weber carbs. They came on a 1.8L engine with SSHE all for $500.
mgphoto
Feb 19 2019, 12:22 PM
'73 model year, the angle of the spark plug says it's a 1.7, that model is D Jet and the '72 and '72 share the same system, which is the least wanted, meaning the parts are the cheapest!
Biggest problem with the dual Webers is that it wont run any better than the carb that is on it now.
The reason is that it most certainly has the original cam which is Fuel Injected.
The po didn't spend any real money on the induction system hence the crappy carb, and I doubt that the case was split for a cam install.
There looks to be some missing hoses for the crankcase breather, easy fix.
We have access to several great websites with a lot of D-Jet info and I bet you that the greater majority of cars that were brought back to there D-Jet systems are better running cars than their carbbed counterparts.
MY $.02 on this side of the pond.
isdyl
Feb 19 2019, 02:29 PM
Thanks for the info. D-jetronic is good news as I know the system inside out from a couple of early Mercedes r107's I had in the past. Interesting what you say about the cam too - it's something I have heard before. Ok then, I'll start looking out for a FI system and not waste money on any more carbs. I guess I need to start by making a list of everything I need. D
QUOTE(mgphoto @ Feb 19 2019, 12:22 PM)
'73 model year, the angle of the spark plug says it's a 1.7, that model is D Jet and the '72 and '72 share the same system, which is the least wanted, meaning the parts are the cheapest!
Biggest problem with the dual Webers is that it wont run any better than the carb that is on it now.
The reason is that it most certainly has the original cam which is Fuel Injected.
The po didn't spend any real money on the induction system hence the crappy carb, and I doubt that the case was split for a cam install.
There looks to be some missing hoses for the crankcase breather, easy fix.
We have access to several great websites with a lot of D-Jet info and I bet you that the greater majority of cars that were brought back to there D-Jet systems are better running cars than their carbbed counterparts.
MY $.02 on this side of the pond.
isdyl
Jan 16 2020, 04:16 AM
Hi - I'm just eventually starting to fit the d-jetronic FI which Clay kindly sent me onto my 1.7 '73 car. I've stripped off the single webber and am just taking it slowly, and buying bits as I need them. I am currently swapping out the distributor to the FI one with the trigger points, and I just wondered if it mattered which way round the body goes please? It only seems to fit in a few positions due to the vacuum canister on the side, and obviously I will need to rotate it to set the timing, but do the trigger points fire all the cylinders each quarter turn please? I seem to remember from a V8 mercedes I had once that the injectors fired in pairs.
Thanks, Dylan
Spoke
Jan 16 2020, 04:49 AM
QUOTE(isdyl @ Jan 16 2020, 05:16 AM)
Hi - I'm just eventually starting to fit the d-jetronic FI which Clay kindly sent me onto my 1.7 '73 car. I've stripped off the single webber and am just taking it slowly, and buying bits as I need them. I am currently swapping out the distributor to the FI one with the trigger points, and I just wondered if it mattered which way round the body goes please? It only seems to fit in a few positions due to the vacuum canister on the side, and obviously I will need to rotate it to set the timing, but do the trigger points fire all the cylinders each quarter turn please? I seem to remember from a V8 mercedes I had once that the injectors fired in pairs.
Thanks, Dylan
The trigger points fire 2 injectors at a time.
Yes, the distributor only fits one way. Here's a picture of my engine showing the distributor mounting.
isdyl
Jan 16 2020, 06:28 AM
Thanks - that's a great photo to help me get everything in the right place. Brilliant.
isdyl
Feb 11 2020, 01:14 PM
Hi! That photo has been really helpful and there is progress but I'm just struggling to see where a couple of last connections go please. On the photo below I have 3 ports - I'm not sure about the right hand one - maybe oil filler breather? Bottom left I think is MPS, top left I seem to have written "Aux Air" but can't remember where I got that info now. Also on the other photo what is this item please? Aux air valve maybe? Where does the other pipe from it go to please if so?
Many thanks! Dylan
rjames
Feb 11 2020, 06:13 PM
Last pic is of the decel valve. Mounted on the same bracket as the MPS (in a 2 liter at least).
Thread about how it’s hooked up (and more) here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=67150&st=
isdyl
Feb 12 2020, 01:16 AM
QUOTE(rjames @ Feb 11 2020, 06:13 PM)
Last pic is of the decel valve. Mounted on the same bracket as the MPS (in a 2 liter at least).
Thread about how it’s hooked up (and more) here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=67150&st=Ah ok thanks - so that upper left port on my photo probably should be 'Decel Valve' with the other pipe from the decelerations valve going to the air filter box.
So that just leaves the right hand port which maybe goes to the oil filler tower? Or does the oil filler tower connect to the air filter box to please?
isdyl
Feb 13 2020, 12:33 PM
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM)
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
Hi again! Sorry this is taking me a long time - I'm just try to may the last few connections as I don't want to damage anything. From above, I can see on the Haynes book diagram too that the red/green wire should go to the oil pressure switch. There is currently a green/black wire connected to the oil pressure switch and so where should that be relocated to please? The diagram I have doesn't mention a green/black wire! This is my last wire I think!
Regards, Dylan
isdyl
Feb 14 2020, 07:28 AM
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 13 2020, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM)
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
Hi again! Sorry this is taking me a long time - I'm just try to may the last few connections as I don't want to damage anything. From above, I can see on the Haynes book diagram too that the red/green wire should go to the oil pressure switch. There is currently a green/black wire connected to the oil pressure switch and so where should that be relocated to please? The diagram I have doesn't mention a green/black wire! This is my last wire I think!
Regards, Dylan
Ah! I see that a green/black wire should be connected to the oil temperature sender - where is that please?
ClayPerrine
Feb 14 2020, 08:13 AM
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 14 2020, 07:28 AM)
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 13 2020, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM)
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
Hi again! Sorry this is taking me a long time - I'm just try to may the last few connections as I don't want to damage anything. From above, I can see on the Haynes book diagram too that the red/green wire should go to the oil pressure switch. There is currently a green/black wire connected to the oil pressure switch and so where should that be relocated to please? The diagram I have doesn't mention a green/black wire! This is my last wire I think!
Regards, Dylan
Ah! I see that a green/black wire should be connected to the oil temperature sender - where is that please?
It is in the bottom of the case, in the left front corner. There is a round plate bolted to the bottom. If it has the sensor, it will be mounted in that plate. If it doesn't have the sensor, the plate won't have a place for it. It is nicknamed the "Taco Plate"
cwpeden
Feb 14 2020, 08:42 AM
Check this thread for hoses. I think you have AAR port correct
http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105298
isdyl
Feb 14 2020, 11:14 AM
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 14 2020, 08:13 AM)
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 14 2020, 07:28 AM)
QUOTE(isdyl @ Feb 13 2020, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Feb 9 2019, 08:40 AM)
Those two open ports are cylinder head vents. You need to put hoses on them and run them to some kind of vent can that is much higher up in the engine compartment.
The wire coming out of the tin is the cylinder head temp sensor for the original fuel injection. With a carb, you can ignore it. But I would suggest that you get the original FI parts and put the FI back on the car. It will run much better than the single carb.
The green with a red trace wire is supposed to hook to the oil pressure sender for the idiot light. It is in a hole next to the distributor. If you ground the wire, the oil light should come on.
Hope that helps.
Clay
Hi again! Sorry this is taking me a long time - I'm just try to may the last few connections as I don't want to damage anything. From above, I can see on the Haynes book diagram too that the red/green wire should go to the oil pressure switch. There is currently a green/black wire connected to the oil pressure switch and so where should that be relocated to please? The diagram I have doesn't mention a green/black wire! This is my last wire I think!
Regards, Dylan
Ah! I see that a green/black wire should be connected to the oil temperature sender - where is that please?
It is in the bottom of the case, in the left front corner. There is a round plate bolted to the bottom. If it has the sensor, it will be mounted in that plate. If it doesn't have the sensor, the plate won't have a place for it. It is nicknamed the "Taco Plate"
Ah - thank you. I'll have a hunt underneath. As this is optional according to the diagram, and I don't have a gauge, I assume it doesn't affect the running of the car?
isdyl
Feb 14 2020, 11:27 AM
QUOTE(cwpeden @ Feb 14 2020, 08:42 AM)
Check this thread for hoses. I think you have AAR port correct
http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105298Thanks - useful diagrams. I think I'm going to miss out the deceleration valve and see if it's necessary. There doesn't seem to be a way of connecting it easily to what I have.
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