Hi everybody. New to this forum and to the 914 car itself. Just acquired one in the last month and she needs a few body tweaks. The fellow that I found who agreed to work on it is fairly old school and says he needs a Datum Line! He explained that this is an imaginary line beneath the car running front to back and side to side that you measure up from to confirm certain points are where they should be. I have searched this forum for this mystery number, called Porsche Canada, phoned frame shops across America and all I have come up with is the line drawing here on this site. I have talked with many people whom worked on 914s in the 70s and 80s but they tended to use Celette jigs or went off of the line drawing.
Any help in this area would be very appreciated.
Regards Chris

@rick918-S
Rick Should be able to help

Your tech might have to imagine the imaginary line.

I have bad news - there is no magical datum line. Sorry.

Unlike modern car's there aren't even Primary Locating Points (PLP's) that are used for assembly line automation to lock into as things like the engine and transmission are loaded into the car from underneath. These cars were built in late 1960's and early 70's when assembly processes were much more manual and body build variation was much higher than what we have now.

There are however published underbody dimensions -- available on this site. http://www.914world.com/specs/underdims.php

The closest thing to a datum is the "A" dimension that defines center line of the vehicle

you have to start some where ,,a line down the center untill you figure out whats not symetrical,,,,maybe the front or back,,,t boned ?... The same for vertical measuring, you'll need to create a flat plane to measure ..up and down...

http://www.914world.com/specs/underdims.php


http://www.914world.com/specs/bodydims.php

&

Is you "guy" up there or across the border in the states?

He is up here in Vancouver B.C. At this point I am running out of options and he is the only person that will take it on, except he wont without the magical datum line number. He has books that go back to the fifties with these numbers for other vehicke makes and feels there should be one.

Here is a pic to see what im dealing with
Click to view attachment

There’s a lot more than that. Are the rockers welded into the body? It’s hard to tell in the pic.

Click to view attachment

So it looks like someone has been there before.

Yes they had. Did alot of rust remédiation, rebuilt the engine, trans, suspension, brakes, wiring etc. Probably what blinded me to the humps in the rear fenders as a telltail. After looking at a dozen rusted out 914s that the owners were claiming mint, i saw this and thought it was a great little project.

This may or may not be of help. This was all I could find but I know there is a list of what these alphabetized dimensions are somewhere. Dave?
There might even be a larger, better diagram somewhere. Dave?

Thanks for posting that. I had seen that and the bottom view, passed it along to the frame guy. Hoping I can change his mind about the datum line

Carl follow the links posted above has all the dimension , plus there is the under body view also..

Ask him what type uni-body equipment he has. I think I can help.

I'll give you my honest opinion and this hurts me. I believe in saving as many 914's as possible.

You should probably look for another tub and move the parts over. Since you're shoping out the body repair work I going to assume that you don't have the skills, or equipment to do this yourself.

Bodies usually sag in the other direction (i.e. tight gap at top of door).

This tub has either been hit and buckled upward or more likely from you pictures of the longitudinal, someone attempted a longitudinal rust fix and completely buggered it up by welding in long's without ensuring the vehicle was straight.

I'm sorry to the be bearer of that news and honestly hope I'm wrong.

The other thing I'd advise is to never try to convince a body shop or "guy" to do something he does't want to. Likely outcome is that it won't turn out to your satisfaction and the 1st thing he is likely to do is to blame it on you for not providing him with this datum. I suspect that he knows it's outside of his skill and/or doesn't want to take the project on for other reasons.

I'd either find a new tub or someone that is confident in taking on a project of this magnitude.

Thanks for your input Superhawk. The more I look at and try to deduce what the previous owner did the more I am leaning towards a botched job that was only figured out after the tub was painted. As one Porsche restorer told me, to start pulling on all that reinforced metal the stress and energy will just show up elsewhere in the body thus creating a pretzel. Where I go next with this is unclear at the moment. I can tell you what I thought was going to be a fun project of some body, paint, assembly with some parts sourcing has vanished. In its place is stress and worry along with a great disappointment in how easily this fellow lied and withheld known information on the irreparable condition of this tub by his hand. This was to be an early 50th birthday present for myself but now.... I don't know. I do thank all of you for your input and advise and maybe something good will come from this. I certainly have learned a lot in a short time on these great cars!

This can be fixed.. You just need to find the right people.. It needs new longitudinals..

I agree it can be fixed but the question will be at what cost and what other rust is in there there that might still need to be addressed. I thought I saw some pretty serious bubbling at the rear of the sail panels.

@boomguy

Don't let this stress you out. Cars are very simple things. There is very little that is ever broken and unfixable. Just assess the cost to repair vs. replace with a clean tub from California or somewhere else.

It can still be a fun project. If you were more interested in a quick turn project - sell this one and go shopping. You'll make a much more informed purchase this time around and folks here can help you sort potential purchases.

There are numerous threads on this site of worse cars having been saved.

See Jeff Hail's work.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791

See BBrock's work:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry2469044

Lastly, here is my project. Keep in mind I bought this car for $4k but I'm already well over $8K into it (includes other costs beside metal work) and my labor is free. 20 foot looks and a low purchase price can be deceiving with respect to what it will ultimately cost to put it back together.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=335209

My best guess is that the door jamb was "repaired" and you have some good old bondo buildup in that area.

Also, with all that "repair" welding to the longs, i wouldn't be surprised if the body has warped.
Judging by the "quality" of the "repairs" i highly doubt that they used any bracing on the car when they welded it.

Did i use enough " " to get my point across here?

Well done.

Media blast it. If there’s anything left, that is your starting point. You’re going to have to eliminate the amateur effort before your pro can get at it...

If @SocalAndy can start where he started and finish where he finished, that car is not a lost cause.

Lol
I think you did!

From the stack of receipts that came with the car, she did go through media blastingClick to view attachment

@boomguy

If you decide to work your way though this particular chassis,

Post some more detailed photos and we will be glad to help identify how good or bad this might be.

Get in touch with Rick and see what he has to say.

if you decide to go shopping, the guys on the forum will gladly help steer you to a solid car.

Sorry your're starting from this point but don't let it put you off.

I once bought a 914/6 for $9K. Within an hour I realized the VIN had been swapped over to a 914/4 (illegal) but I had already closed the deal and cash changed hands. By the time it was all over I got the seller to take it back but I lost $900 on the "deal". Sometimes we all have these types of hard learned lessons. You are not alone.

For anyone reading this I don't have the VIN (wish I did) and I wish I could have prevented that car from being passed off somewhere else down to another unsuspecting buyer down the line but it simply wasn't in the cards. Buyer Beware is the moral of the story.

I will do that. Probably start a new thread and start grinding and cutting with the advice from you guys. I mean if the body is already tweaked what have I got to lose! I have tried twenty or so shops here and no one will touch it.

Sissy's!

The likely reason is most shops now lack the skilled labor to do this type of work. They want easy insurance work to bolt and unbolt parts.

There is a shortage of real body men that can do quality metal work.

And when you do find it, the prices are high. So much so, that a well done tub restoration will exceed the value of the car when you're finished. Would only make sense on a 914/6 that would push in excess of $60-100K when finished given that body work could easily run into the $30K realm not counting paint.

As you state, you have nothing to lose and a bunch of skills to be learned if you go that route.

There are guys here that have been down the path you're looking at and it can be done.

That receipt looks like it was for a gas tank, not chassis.
Unfortunately, sometimes prior work to the car just adds more to the total repair.

Look at my build thread. It's been a long road and fun most of the time. My car is now on the ground with the door opening measurment s within spec.. There is not much orginal metal on my car..

true....but the second one 914350 did was worse off...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...44443&st=80

Gas tank was done as well
Click to view attachment

You are quite correct in the assumption they only want to do insurance claims. Way easier and they can bill huge hourly sums instead of doing private jobs. One reason I thought maybe someone in Washington state might have a guy or girl who would take it on. Like I said, lots of promise in the little car but a huge hurdle to get there!

EuroTech Body Werkes in Kirkland WA has straightened a bunch of 914s,, not cheep...

[quote name='Superhawk996' date='May 19 2019, 11:57 AM' post='2715105']
@boomguy

If you decide to work your way though this particular chassis,

Post some more detailed photos and we will be glad to help identify how good or bad this might be.

Get in touch with Rick and see what he has to say.

if you decide to go shopping, the guys on the forum will gladly help steer you to a solid car.

Sorry your're starting from this point but don't let it put you off.

Sorry to abandon this thread for the past week and abit. I have been trying to still find someone to look at the girl for another opinion. I had success at another body shop in that a very nice fellow named James came to give me his opinion. He went over the car quite thoroughly and confirmed that there is body (collision) damage front left and rear right along with the weird body to door gap. He feels that panels were cut out when the car was on jack stands and then welded up again. For him he felt his body guys would just be chasing mis-aligned panels trying to get body gaps vaguely correct. Either washing my hands of it or finding a different body would be a better/cost effective path to take.
I am starting to agree/feeling deflated, with the project. I think there are many good parts to the car (brakes, suspension, new hydraulics, gas tank, 2.0 rebuilt motor, gauges, wiring harness) but the tub would have to be jigged and then cut back to the longitudinals, probably replaced, and then have the trunk and front pulled back into spec. Thats just my overall impressions from talking with different body and porsche guys though. Thoughts?

Buy a good roller. Transfer parts.

Man I do think that car is worth saving. Wish it were closer I would buy it for a future project

I agree with trying to find a good chassis and transfer parts over. You would probably be $15K ahead of the game at the end of the project. If you absolutely have to have it right, be prepared to pay for it. Just depends on where you want to be when it is all done.

I wish I could have just switched all of my parts to a nice clean chassis, but there is no way I would or could ever do that on a Six. It is also one of the reasons I have painstakingly documented the complete restoration of my car so people can see all of the work and understand the hidden issues that can be uncovered once you begin work.

Personally, you might want to reach out to McMark on this site who has a Celette with 914 fixtures and currently is doing SirAndy's 914-6 chassis which had issues. It's worth a call or email with pictures for him to give you his impression. Here is SirAndy's thread with McMark working his magic: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=300547

It is a journey and the trip begins with the first step. Good luck and best wishes.
Michael

If it were a 914-6 this would be such a different story

Take all parts off it, find a new tub. Honestly, there are plenty out there. Just takes time & effort to find them.

Then send to MB911 he can do wonders with a welder -- that way I don't feel like such a moron for trying to save my chassis that otherwise should be scrapped.

If something can be found out towards MB911 then loading her up on a trailer and meeting part way
may work!

Bob B

I want to point out that there are cars still in garages is decent roller condition. You just have to find them or they may find you. I sold one of our guys a what I am going to say was a superior deal on a 70 that he is now building for a 6 conversation. I had that car that I bought and saved from the junk yard 18 mounts ago. I did not place an add for it for sale I offered it to a couple of guys that said they where looking for a good not totally screwed up body. At $1,500 it was a super bargain. You just joined so give it a moment. One may find you just ask.

Place the add in WTB in the 914world. May the luck be with you.
Also, be careful with what you may buy. Ask the guys here.

Bob B

Well let me know if you come this way with the tub.

Thanks Bob, I will do that and thanks for good words.

Will Do!