Happy Father’s Day gentlemen.

I just drove a ‘74 2.0 car from central OR down the coast back to SoCal (great trip, car was totally reliable) and somewhere on a single lane carving through the redwoods outside Eureka I wondered “yeah, the extra power would be nice but would it make the car feel heavier”.

So,is there a trade off in perceived weight or having the car be less eager to dance that comes with a /6 conversion? My intention is to keep whatever car I covert a narrow body and subtle so built GTs aren’t really the best point of feedback.

Thanks!

They feel a little heavier but honestly they feel fantastic. The sound alone is amazing but the power is nice as well.. You really need to drive one to understand it though.. No written words can describe it..

I also would consider a 2.2 and 2.4 that is kind of a hot build engine. They offer some advantages to the larger engines especially cost and still have similar abilities..

I when I go from driving my 3.0 six to my built 4 I invariably look down and think did I leave the e-brake on?

I use to think my 3.2 felt heavier then a 4 cylinder but since I now have both I find that my 3.2 feel lighter in the front steering even though it has bigger/wider tires. Weight distribution perhaps.
Buck

So many little things can change the feel of a car for better or worse. We made up a RSR style widebody that was riding on old suspension and it felt fantastic compared to a built RS style car with all new parts that felt a little truck like. The RSR with steamroller wheels and tires felt light and nimble, the RS was awkward to drive. So many things come into play and a good suspension guy can make everything work in harmony.

There is really no comparison. If you drove my car, or any of our sixes that seem to be so abundant around here lately, you'd INSTANTLY get the gist of it.

You'd also get going RIGHT AWAY on doing your six conversion.

OK, OK. I’m convinced (again).

Now to figure out which car to do this to and sell several of the others...

Thanks gentlemen.

Bear in mind there's also some weight difference between the various -6 engine configs. I have a mag case engine with carbs and headers (no heat) for example, about as light as you can get but 'compromised' in other ways.

Good point.

I have a 3.2 L that, in theory, should be ready to go as well as a 2.7 that will need at least a top end rebuild. Both are fuel injected engines which for now I am planning on leaving installed.

Was planning on headers and no heat.

Probably the most notable difference between my 2270 and 3.2 six is drivability. There isn’t any angry snotty behavior with the six. It starts, idles, and runs like a daily driver. But when you hit the angry pedal? Bye-bye!

This probably goes in the category of really stupid question but I’ll throw it out there anyway - what is a ballpark price range taking a decent running 2.0 to a 6 conversion - I know loaded question with lots of dependencies - $5k $10k $20k ??? What ballpark we talking?

best reply of the year award and it’s only June

Rob!

That’s basically what I am going for, needs to be civilized.

Biggest swing is engine acquisition cost and what needs to be done to it.

Working budget for everything else would be between $4,000 and $5,000. That’s my mid-process cocktail napkin math which I would take with a healthy amount of skepticism.

If you do it yourself then 5-6k in parts if you already have the engine.


Remember flywheel, oil tank, oil filler neck, wiring harness, oil filter console, oil lines, headers, engine mount, throttle bell crank assembly, muffler.. Lots of options out there.

for a 3.2, also -
conversion clutch with ring gear
DME sensors and bracket
modify engine cooler
front oil cooler, lines and thermostat
oil temp/pressure gauge
rear shift rod
915 trans stubs, hub stubs, hubs, cv's and sway away axles
engine sheet metal
O2 & altitude sensor
DME relay
3.2 fuel pump
muffler bracket

New engine fuel lines if yours are original.

Pricey but worth it.

The 3.2 conversion was the most popular engine switch by far at the WCR. Guys are seeing up to 300hp when modified so there is plenty there for most 914 owners.

Buy one of Ben's stainless steel quiet mufflers if you want civil or the last of his 2 in, 2 out GT mufflers if you want mean.

If you choose the right exhaust and a lightweight battery, you can greatly reduce the total weight gain of the six. The stock 4 parts and lead acid battery were quite heavy.

^ Some great input above.

My 2.2 six conversion definitely doesn't feel as light or "momentum" as it did as a four, but I wouldn't go back. It just feels special in a way that's hard to describe. The car always felt like cheap fun—in the GOOD way Miatas and MR2s do—as a four, but feels more exotic and sophisticated as a six. Heavier, too. And maybe not quite as flingable...but I hold out hope that I can dial the suspension in further. Not that it's bad...but there's something very cool about the lighter fours.

Any six is going to require a brake upgrade, but PMB's alloy Brembo setup or any 911 front brakes should be enough. Count on a five-lug conversion as well, if you go for the latter.

If you want to keep the body narrow, I think 180-200hp is the sweet spot—so I'd look at hot 2.2s, 2.4s, and other engines up to the SC 3.0 or maybe a 3.2 that's dead stock. Of course, the bigger the displacement, the more you get into the conversion. Oil coolers, 915s, etc add a lot to the cost. I like the 2.2 because you can get nice hp (I am not wishing for more power) without big torque, which is what starts upsetting the transmission, driveline, and/or chassis. YMMV here.

The engine in my car is a 190-200hp E/S 2.2, and it feels and sounds great. There are times where I wish it was injected instead of carbureted, but that wasn't in the budget. If you want civilized, I wonder about a 2.4 MFI or even 2.4 CIS? Or just a nice 2.7 or 3.0 CIS? Add a stock muflfer and I suspect that would be a very nice package....

Once you go past 200hp, I'm starting to think about flares and all sorts of other stuff. you're soon re-engineering the car—not that there's anything wrong with that!

A 3.0 or 3.2 is a torque monster. The first time my wife drove my 3.0 914 she started from a dead stop in 3rd gear! A 3rd gear that tach'd out at 75mph! A 3.2 with Motronic is my personal "gold standard" 6 conversion, but I'm very fond of all flat sixes, and a small displacement high spooling 2.2S is very fun in a 914.

With a 3.0L in mine I really don't feel that much of a difference in car handling from the 4 cylinder days. But the car is a freaking rocket now with ~200 hp. The handling puts a smile on my face way more than my Boxster S.



I'm running stock brakes on mine and it's just fine. I've even autocrossed and the brakes never overheat but can lock up the tires. Only for track would I say brake upgrades are necessary.

I don't have any snotty behaviour with my FI 2.6L T4 in my bug, but the 3.0 914 with carbs is way smoother. Both are steet high performance, the T4 is sort of an off/on switch (but not as bad as a T1), where as the power from the carbed /6 is more linear. The /6 you press the go pedal easy and it drives like a modern car, press harder the faster in goes, but it's still a smooth transition. Same with deceleration.
I have healthy cams in both, at idle the T4 lops, moderate vibration through the car, the 914/6 idles like silk once warm.
BTW I was going to put the T4 in my 914, but then I drove a /6 and the plan changed mid build.

Only reason I'd choose a mag case over the 3.2 would be because I also have a 911 project and it would make that cars value higher.
If you only have the 914, choosing the Al case 3.2 would be a no brainer for me.

I like the smaller 2-2.4 only because the entrance fee is much less allot of times not required will be a front oil cooler thus saving you 1500-2500 off the bat.

The 3.0 or 3.2 are ideal though from a longevity standpoint.

I recently drove a '73.5 911 2.4 CIS.....been a while since I drove an
early 911.
Comparerd to my GT project with the 2.0 911 T engine it was a friggin'
powerhouse

Great discussion gentlemen.

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The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I drove that 3.6 engine in a light, early 911. It’s an E-ticket ride.
I just bought another 3.2 for my flared car. It’s the perfect engine for my needs.
I’d almost call it an investment, like Fuchs, six cylinder engines keep rising in price.

Why so little driving?

Really - they run cool enough they don't need a front cooler?

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

Work gets in the way

I didn't build it .i bought it built already from a member here who had the /6 fever ... So i got a hell of a deal
(Thanks Sir keith)


Its been very reliable so far
But a 2336 without nikkies or a temp guage

I dont wanna press my luck

And you cant compare so cal driving to oh canada

+

Congrats to kyle Lowry for leading the team to victory

I drove Oscar's 2.4-4 at WCR. Fantastic car. Never hesitated the entire weekend, driving warm weather up mountain roads. I'm not a four hater.

It would be interesting to see a big four (2.2 or 2.4) vs a /6 cost since the big fours will require coolers etc as well, right?

I suppose, outside the engine, the cost saving there is more standard exhaust set up and using stock engine mounts?

I think i got the last 5k engine
It was complete from intake to flywheel to exhaust
And it has a under the truck setrab cooler with fan.


So cost is definitely a factor

I got it used so it was a risk and a hell of a deal at the same time .

/6 prices i just cannot handle

Think that is a Raby motor in that car but not sure.

That was a fun drive.

Back about 1974, I had a 1973 914-4. 2.0L, and my room mate had a 914-6, 2.0L. Both were factory stock (and both were blk/blk, though mine had AC); I could jump from one to the other. My experience was that everything about the 914-6 felt way more lively than my 914-4....... as a 45 year old recollection.
Andys

Yes. An older Raby build with an estimated 170hp. If it was my car, I would be happy. With a better driver behind the wheel it could keep up with most anyone.

About 2/3 of the cost of a /6.
A lot of factors so that's a real rough ballpark.

Several years ago a big four with nickies was a wash with doing a /6 conversion, but with the price of 911 cores/parts now I'd say it's back at 2/3 again.

The big difference is a 4, even a big one, can use almost every stock 914 part. It might not be optimal but it all fits. A six needs a mount, engine tin, oil tank & lines, exhaust, etc, all specific to a six.

Tdskip,

I would go with the 3.2 that you have and just put a Steve Wong Chip in it. You will not be sorry with the performance. Sell the 2.7 to get the money to do the conversion.

I think the 2.7 will need more than the top end as the thermal reactor cars have stud problems a lot of the time.

My first ride in a six was in 1979 from a buddie that had a 3.0 with injection, stock body Carrera front end, 6s x 16 all around and all I can say was we took a right turn at 55 or so and while I thought we would crash, the car just handled it. I almost my pants.

Bob B


Build a super nice car. You will not lose money if you do it right

It makes you crazy, you'll do anything to your car.

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Be careful you dont wanna end up like this guy
(Or maybe you do)

Not alot of room for golf clubs in that trunk
But i suck at golf anyways