Hi guys,
Can anyone tell me where I can get a certificate from Porsche showing all the particulars about my car? I decided to sell one of my 914s and I like to have a certificate showing it is a numbers matching car.
Thanks,
Bill.

They don't do them (Certificate of Authenticity)anymore.

They were replaced with:
https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesands...calcertificate/

https://www.pca.org/resource/porsche-certif...uthenticity-coa

Here is a recent PPS:

They seem to get worse and worse In the old days, for the Engine, it would have the numbers the car came with.. then they would ask you for numbers and they would just verify if correct.. and then they took what ever numbers you gave them.

All that said, its likely worth it to the next owner that you have a COA (PPS) from somepoint in time.

but given the (lack of) info now provided not much value if you plan on keeping it.

Porsche's mentality on this reminds me of the practice of long-established rock bands hawking cheesy t-shirts at intermission. They've made their millions, but still want to milk their faithful for a few more bucks. I don't need a t-shirt to prove I went to a concert and I don't need a COA or whatever their calling it now to prove I own the authentic 914 that's sitting in my garage. Gee, is there a possibility that it was cranked out in a Chinese sweatshop like a fake Rolex- I think not. Could it be a kit car- I don't think anybody is making kits of the most derided model in Porsche history. If Porsche was loyal to its fans and enthusiasts, they would provide to them every scrap of production and delivery info they could garnish in a single document at a reasonable cost. And as far as them providing a hands-on inspection by one of their so-called "classic experts", give me a break. I'll bet that "expert" is some millennial they sent to a one-week seminar to teach him that his company did actually produce cars before the Cayenne.

Ansbacher

Just ploy to get you into the service department. They are smiling the whole time.

I think the problem is that a "matching numbers" Porsche has become worth MUCH more money than one with a replacement engine. Because of that, restamping in a manor that is not detectable has become big business.

I guess I applaud Porsche for finding a way to have owners enjoy the cars for what they are and not to succumb to the Corvette mentality.

Can you elaborate?

I have no idea how they do it. "Not detectable" is an overstatement. It probably is detectable by the right people with the right tools. It's just that having the original motor has added so much value that the dishonest folks will figure something out that will fool at least some of the people.

Adding a 2008 COA for reference purposes.

Restamping blocks has become common practice since "numbers matching" has become big business. I know of a stamp supplier who can reproduce almost any font from just a clear picture.

My bet is at least half of the numbers matching classic cars on the market are restamps

what are you selling ? Don't care about the certificate...prefer to have a reliable PPI report

You can pm me

greetings
Dax

This and their long and overpriced options list has made them the most profitable car manufacturer in the world. The "Classic" program is under the guise of being faithful to the older model Porsche enthusiast, but, make no mistake, they are in it to further expand their bottom line.

Dave

Just remember , they are also "Frame off restorations" . Even if the car is a unibody

LOL

It does appear that the "classic technical certificate" report, for $500, does go to the effort of indicating if the engine and trans are original to your car. But, you have to take it to one of the 12 or so certified locations in the US.

The 500 dollar inspection DOES verify original matching numbers, but the people who are doing it at the Porsche Classic centers were not even a gleam in their Dad's eye when most of these cars were made. Hence there are unknowledgeable people examining your car who know virtually nothing about it.

Number re stamp to fake a numbers matching car is a down and dirty low life way to make a profit and those who do it should be banished from the Porsche community (or any community for that matter.

THAT is why Porsche had to clamp down: To try to eliminate counterfeiters, they made it bad for everyone with true intent. (just like the terrorists making all of us have to now go through long lines at the airport.

I have had several long discussions with Porsche here in Atlanta about allowing this type of information out to legitimate entities, and they still refused. Their new certificate of authenticity is virtually worthless and expensive for what you get and gives us all the further impression that Porsche could care less about the old cars

Well, knowledge can be learned. If they are doing no more than what the old COA people did, then what does it matter if they are 25 or 40 or 70 years old? The data doesn't change. Porsche has the data, they are merely restricting access. They will know if your 2.0 had the right /original case. Or if you /6 is correct.

Then again, this is why the Ferrari owner complains that his "1 of 11" car is actually # 36 of 11 lolz.

If this is SO important for Porsche verify the originality of its products, why don't they just include the certificate when you pick up your new car. If the original certificate is lost, subsequent owners should be able to purchase a copy from the factory when supporting documentation is submitted.

Dave

When I purchased my new Cayman S in 2007 I was sent a COA a few weeks after picking up the car. Now, I don't know if that was provided by the factory or if Brumos ordered it on their own as part of their great service and support for customers and the Porsche community at large.

Chevrolet made 7000 1967 Corvettes with the 427/435 HP engine.
There are only 11,000 left.
In 2006 I called PCNA and spoke to a person in customer relations.
After providing her with the VIN of my new to me 914 6 she gave me all of the
vital info available including options and engine number.
Would I like to buy a COA she asked ? It will be $185 ... just call back and let her
know.
My how times have changed.

I've never looked at the engine or trans numbers on any of my cars and usually give away the original engine anyway so the whole certificate thing is lost on me.

Interesting read but super inconvenient. Thanks Chi-town for the link

https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesands...calcertificate/

I am in the process of getting info on 3 914/6 that should be the equivalent of the old CoA. Once this is done I will entertain more requests. The price is about the same as the old CoA.

I have purchased several "Birth Certificates" as the VW world calls them for some cars.
You provided the serial and case# and VW said yes or now as to the engine being original. No information is given away to allow for misdemeanors to occur.

@davep Can you elaborate on this and how you're able to obtain the info.? Curious minds would like to know.

I got a COA for my 914 shortly before they ended them and that's how it worked for me. They verified my matching numbers case but no info for the trans. They also failed to note the optional "Sport" package my car was equipped with.

@bbrock
So when you told them . .. . did they "adjust" their records?

The reality is that 1973 was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Quality control what not what it is today, computerized record keeping didn't exist, and dope smoking was rampant! Not surprised that even Porsche's records are only semi-reliable at best.

I'm glad you had some luck with them! OT -- your car is coming along nicely! Keep up the great work!

Part of the issues with getting information may be the fact Karmann is no longer around. The records they have now may be minimal. You quickly forget we are now real Porsche’s so the priority in preserving documents may not have there.

There still is a lot of information that never made it out of a dealers file. I have the privilege of purchasing a car for restoration that was a German delivery and there was a lot of information you don’t normally see included. The car even had its own “passport.”

Ah yes . . . Carnet de Passages en Douane. Spent many hours and lots of $$ and dealt with many beaucrats & customs brokers at work arranging these documents over the years What a joke. All because some Gov't or another is looking for import duties as you drive a car over an imaginary line.

Don't even get me started about the time I was held at US customs at about 2am when driving a car equipped with a "M" manufacturer plate back from Toronto area for work and the goober at the border had nothing better to do than to argue about paperwork at 2 am for his own entertainment only to let me go about an hour and a half later when he tired of the game.

I'm not bitter about it though

It's cool that you have that document for your car though!

There are those of us that are lucky enough to have
Documentation that was preserved, either by ourselves
or Previous Owners..
Like this....
And YES, this could be forged today in many cases.
But when it came into your possession in 1973,
that is unlikely..

Click to view attachment

So, the 'old style' COAs are or aren't available any more?

I got one for my '66 912 a couple years ago from Porsche ... still need to get one for my SWB 911

Sarcasm alert.

your SWB 911 is now worthless without a COA. However, I'll take it off your hands for $10K under the supposition that it probably isn't authentic.

Not true, there are a few people with a computer list of cars with the info included. I have a photo of such a page of 60 cars that I think were 1972 911T by Karmann. Over the last 4 decades I have developed a relationship with a few friends that have the access I need to such information.

Maybe a bit of overstatement on my part. Yes, OEM's had IBM mainframe computers as early as the 60's. However, those mainframe computers were not integrated to the production floor level of manufacturing.

I didn't mean to imply some sort of computer list didn't or couln't exist after the fact. I have first hand awareness of OEM records having been maintained initially on paper, and later having been optically scanned, and the information extracted to a database for record keeping and/or quality control analysis.

My broader point was the 17 digit VIN system had not yet been implmented (started in 1981) There was no Just-In-Time production system that would scheduled a VIN to be built on a given day when the supplier would ship the needed parts, and then marry a given engine and transmission to that VIN. Bar code readers were not yet implemented to scan an engine, transmission, and VIN to marry all that information together into a centralized database automatically wihout human intervention.

In the end, I believe it would be someone looking at which engine went to which VIN and recording that data (likely by hand, on paper) and it would later be transferred via a data entry clerk into a mainframe for long term storage. Same for paint codes and optional content. That critical step of mainframe data entry would have been bascially a manual data entry by a person and therefore prone to human error. Even if the production facility had a mainframe terminal on the plant floor for data entry, it still would have been prone to human error. That human error at the data point of entry is the nature of the beast, and that is the reason all OEM's have moved toward fully automated data collection on the plant floor for critical data.

My point was that the 1970's were not "computerized" as we conceive of it today with automated bar code readers that read numerous parts (and now Sofware Version too!) and automatically match them to a VIN and stores that vehicle as-built data to a central repository all without human intervention.

It seems Karmann never even recorded the transmission numbers based off the COA's I've seen online that all show N/A. Likewise, the rest of the vehicle data would be subject to human error in data entry as it was translated from production floor into a mainframe. This is why the COA's often contain errors that are later "corrected" by owners arguing with Porsche and/or having to present thier original documents showing that their vehicle's orignal paint was blue as delivered, the door plate shows blue, but yet COA said it was Hot Pink.

Nothing is absolute with these old cars and Porsche's records.

Jeff,

Nice one! I take back the statement about Transmission number. Did you provide it or did they?

I do like the engine number though! Is that a 1.8L or a 2.0L?

I can't tell if you're laughing with me or at me.

VIN ...1465 is a 2.0L. A car I previously owned.

Always laughing with...

@JeffBowlsby

Honestly, I've very torn (and passonate) on this subject. I'd love to know how my car was built. But given the cost and the rampant errors, I just can't justify giving money to them.

Based on your website, personally, I think you have done a better job of documenting (all for free) these cars, service tools, dealers, etc., than I've ever seen Porsche show any interest in. Thank you for your site, the NLA harness you make, and all the work that went into your site and documenting these cars.

Aw shucks....thanks for the kudos...its all for fun.

I think were are in a period in the hobby and of the cars life where having/knowing the original engines and trans seems to be so essential. But down the road in the not too distant future that wont be so important. The cars age and drivetrains wear out. It wont be too long when we'll just consider ourselves fortunate that a 914 will be viable and driveable and not parted or in a museum.

Life is too short to take these minutia too seriously.

I thought my COA was overpriced for what I got but I'm glad I got it. I would have liked to see more detail about how my car was equipped, but it gave me the most important information I was looking for.

I really don't care if my engine is matching numbers, but it I ever sell the car, I may be very happy I have a COA that confirms that it is.

My certificate, came with the car when I bought her from the P+A dealer in 1974 ; really nothing much of matching Anythings on the car today . I don't know if Porsche's Authenticity evaluator would know the workings of the horizontal fan installed/ nor the applicable option code for it . The carpeting and basket weave dash material are all original though
Click to view attachment