Just bought a 70 914 1.7L FI ,all stock, last ran in 1997. Planning on getting a battery to turn it over and see where it’s at, suck out the fuel in tank, replace fuel filter, fuel hose, change oil, may be do compression test, install new spark plugs. Any idea on where/what else I should do/look at to get it running again?

I am versed with most BMW and 928 but still learning this 914. I want to get it running then sell as I don’t have room to restore or keep it for now. TIA.

Peter

I never understood why people try to "turn over" an engine that hasn't run for 10/20/30 years. You have no idea what it looks like in there but you think it's a good idea to "turn it over" anyways?

That's a sure way to cause lots of damage to the internals.

Just treat the engine as a core, drop it (easy to do), go through it, clean it up and once everything checks out, fire her up ...


PS:

"may be do compression test with new spark plugs"

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Ansbacher

I get it. Your excighted by the find. Its possible it could run and yes that would be cool, but theres a checklist of what you shold do before going there. Will be easier tk get a good look while its out.

1st replace all fuel hoses.
2nd check intale for mouse nests, also poke around the enginge tin.
3rd drain the oil, its garbage by now.
Next its an issue of if your rings arr stuck or theres debris in the combustion chamber.
If you can turn by hand easily good if not take it apart.

Some soak with seafoam, let sit overnight. Drain, and replace with fresh oil and check compression.
If you have got this far odds are good it will fire up. You will want to replace vacuume hoses while its out.

Im sure others may have a few other pointers.

If you want to sell it, don't bother seeing if it will start. Your best buyers are 914 fans, who know enough about cars that have sat for many years (and would have concerns about fuel leaks from old hoses and fires). You might gently see if the engine turns over--most buyers will want to know that.

More critical for value is the shape of the body and interior. Learn about the typical rust locations, and do a body survey--and get photos.

It's going to need the whole FI system gone thru. Plus removing the tin to clean out the rats nest and crap from the cooling fins. Plus ALL the fuel lines. And pull the gas tank for new hoses and a screen and clean that out.

20 years is a long time on a 50 year old car.

Like has been said, the condition of the chassis is the more important factor as it's expensive to properly fix rust. A 1.7L is practically worthless and easy to replace.

Yip, excited to find a good car. I’d keep the car but with 2 businesses, a Land Cruiser for DD, and a supercharged E38 and a 928, wife is not happy that it will take me another 10 yrs to finish as I am trying to finish the 928 engine reseal after 4 yrs. Had a 74 914 1.8L from 97-2000 so I had some exposure.

Engine turns over in gears when pushing the car so it’s not seized. Car sat in garage for 20yrs so no rats/rabbits nest. Battery tray has some rust but still solid, no rear trunk rust, front trunk has slight rust under spare tire and around the hood seal by the pop up headlight. Ideal for restoration.

Looks like I should drain and remove tank to replace filter, fuel hoses, check pump in the front. Drain oil, check compression, replace fuel hoses, spark plugs in the bay. I want to keep it but want to keep the marriage too so I might take it to storage and deal with it later.

More pics.

What's the purist opinion about replacing the FI with dual carbs or refresh the FI? I guess cost to rebuild the FI might stop this if it does not start.

As for oil weight, what’s the crowd here running? I used 15-50W Dino in my LC, 0-40W synthetic in my E38, 10-50W Dino in 928. Thoughts are thicker oil leaves oil coat lingers help protect old high revvving engine and proven in couple 928 race engine.

Hi Fellow OC 914 owner!

Congratulations on your new 914! Looks clean inside and out. Previous owner did a good job storing it.

That car looks NICE. Congratulations.

From a value stand point - FI adds value as they run well and are stock. That and unless you change the cam, it's difficult to not have to tweek with it. You run rich if it's a hot day or you go up in elevation. Running too rich will cause plug fouling, but you don't want to be too lean. It's not too bad, but it bothers me on my 2.0 and I'm changing it back.
Many new parts are available for the FI, so you should be able to keep it stock.

If all goes well you won't need anything.
WHATEVER YOU DO..... DON'T DRIVE IT.[
You'll be hooked and will have a difficult time selling it.

Thank you for the warm welcome. Yea, car stayed with 2 owners in same family since new before I broke the cycle so it was well kept.

Any local 914 shop that you know of? I think some guy named Glen but don’t remember whether he’s in Orange or some where in LA that restore and repair 914? TIA.

Are you close to Sunset Beach? You can try PCH Garage in Sunset Beach. Some members here use this shop. I’m sure Jim Hoyland will also recommend this shop.

I think that there was a thread on this just this week

I bought a 1971 914 that had been sitting for 10 years in a garage in So. Cal. Beside to pull the spark plugs and get some Fogging lubricant to spray inside the cylinders. all of the oil has drained to the bottom and you want to ensure there is good lubricant before turning over. The metal on metal can seriously damage the cylinder walls if you don't..

The fogging spray is cheap and pulling the plugs only takes 15 minutes. Worth every penny and the time.

Or squirt a little Marvel Mystery oil in there. It will help loosen up the rings if they are gummy and stuck. Challenge is getting it all around the cylinder and not just in a puddle at the bottom. The fogging oil delivery system takes care of this for you.

Nice early car! What's month and year build date? Add it to the member's VINs.

Is there a decent June 70 914 wiring diagram available as I searched the net and most are difficult to read/zoom.

Cleaned out fuel line and tank, crank engine but no spark. Removed point and check gap finally got spark. No fuel pressure and foind blown fuse, replaced fuse but pump still not working.

Fuel pump could be seized- likely after so long.

I’ve had luck spraying carb cleaner in there to dissolve old gas residue and bench testing by running alternately forward and backward to loosen it up. Don’t let it run too long without fuel running through it, though.

The fuel came out of the filter and before injectors were ok, not gelled or gummy. You mean the gears could be seized? Thanks.

Yes pump will be gummed up with old fuel,remove it and clean it , best way is to block the delivery side stand it on end and put solvent into the suction side,leave to soak.
This has worked for me once but some will not free up,good luck.

nice looking car! my car sat a few years before I bought it, first thing I did was pull the tank and clean, replaced all lines and vac lines and put new pump in.
fired right up but I had vac leaks from intakes and plenum seal, so just get all new stuff now -
oil wise you want 20-50 high zinc oil, so Penn Grade 1(Brad Penn) oil , or Vr1 Valvoline 20-50 motorcycle oil, Porsche classic sells and recommnends the 20-w50 as well.

How are you getting on? There are several of us in OC.

Update. Got the 3 port pump installed and running but no fuel pressure. Could air in the body needed to bleed or prime to build fuel pressure? Any chance the impeller is toast?

Wired 12v direct to pump on bench and there’s air pressure while running.

Getting new 2 port pump on Sat and plan to install that at same location as the 3 port to run the engine but I can’t find info on plugging the 3rd line. Any ideas? Thanks.

Peter

Got 3 port pump to run with air from outlet but no fuel pressure when installed. Fuel gurgling in the filter like it want to flow, 12v to pump but still no fuel flow. Got all 3 hoses connect to correct R,S,D on pump. Any suggestions? TIA.

wiring dia. : prosperosgarage.com best tool for old blind guy, dealing with 50 year old wiring. $26.00 tool.

Click to view attachment

Confirming the pic is showing correct hookup of 3 port , unless I missed other clue? Thanks.

After 2 days of trouble shooting, found a 5” fuel hose from the pump collapsed inside causing no flow. Replaced all new hose and car fires up but won’t stay idle and running too rich.

Disconnected the cold start injector, CHT sensor, and tapping the MPS while starting, but still have the smoky gas exhaust fume. Checked the vacuum on MPS-it’s holding. 4 spark plugs are soaked in gas. Fuel pressure running 30psi, holding at 18 psi-is this normal? Any other suggestions? Thanks.

Peter

What is this brass circled in red and could it cause no idle, rich condition ? Does this air filter housing need to be installed to run/ test engine?

I am still researching to understand vacuum system, vacuum hose. Is this hose circled in blue a vacuum hose?

Does the CHT sensor have to be plug-in to test engine as a friend familiar with VW said it can be unplug ? There was a small potentiometer wired into the engine harness and the CHT wire-the previous mechanic said used to enrich the fuel to cool engine when it’s running hot.

I can’t understand why the plugs are soaked causing no start engine after trying to run 1min. Throttle have to be pampered to keep engine running. Running in out of ideas to trouble shoot before throwing parts at it. TIA.

Peter

Anybody in OC familiar with the mechanicals willing to show me a few things on your car since I am running out of ideas to fix the flooding? May have to get it tow to shop since I am at dead end. Thanks.

Peter

Your friend is incorrect. Car won't run with CHT unplugged. It will cause a way too rich condition and quickly flood the engine. Other things that result in flooding or way over rich condition:

1. Manifold Pressure Sensor (MPS) that holds no vacuum.
2. Leaking or broken injectors
3. Fuel pressure much too high
4. Leaking cold start valve

My money is on the CHT and/or MPS.

The friend was a VW bug mechanic before working for city as diesel mechanic so I thought he might know.

Is there a way to test the CHT directly instead of getting 2.5k ohm on pin 11 and 23 from the ECU plug?

1-MPS hold pressure with slow leak but I understand it should not flood engine. Voltmeter measured the pins on MPS within these range : #7 & # 15 (should be about 90 ohms) and between #8 & #10 (should be about 350 ohms).

2- Leaking injectors would loose pressure in rail? Fuel pressure at 30psi when engine running, drop to 18psi and holding when off. All 4 plugs are equally wet so I doubt all 4 injectors fail same time?

3- Fuel pressure is 30psi , drop to 18psi when shut off-within spec?

4-Cold start injector unplugged so it should not leak, flow fuel?

The wire from harness to CHT was hacked so I'll have to clean up and test. Specs say it should measure 2k-3k ohm or 2500 ohm at 68F ?

Feel so frustrated with this old design. Built custom stroker for my BMW 635, supercharged my 98 BMW 740, revamping my 928 S4 and do all my own maintenance on all BMW, Land Cruiser but this 914 is defeating me. Thanks.

Peter

Update so I can just move on. Tested again 30min ago and here's the results:

CHT to ground :3200 ohm at 58F. Specs is 2000-3000ohm , 2500 ohm at 68F. Is this acceptable?

MPS hold vacuum with NO leak. Pin 7 and 15 : 92 ohms. Pin 8 and 10: 355 ohms.

Could bad grounding cause these problems? Tried grounding on various area of body and engine and ohm meter read inconsistently but solid reading at (-) battery terminal. Thanks.

So you've probably eliminated fuel pressure and MPS as culprits, and the CHT itself looks like it's generally within spec. I would recommend examining the wire harness from the CHT (the CHT connection itself to the wiring harness) to the ECU. Those get brittle over time and can crack, giving you an open circuit. The sensor itself may be fine, but if it's open to the ECU it will have the same effect. I guess check the ECU harness plug for damage as well, particularly on pin 23.

The only other things I can think of are a blocked return fuel line, but that would cause your fuel pressure to spike (which it's not doing), and a bad ECU (which is fairly rare). ECU is a swap out part. You should be able to get one for 1.7L cheap if you put a WTB in the classifieds.

Part number reference (and other troubleshooting) if you don't already have this link: https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetParts.htm

Bad grounds usually result in no fuel (injectors won't fire, pump won't run, etc.).

Thanks Rob for the Paul Anders link, saw that but good review as I've read so many D-jet info.

Got continuity from #23 of ECU connector to CHT plug by #3.

Fuel flow from tank to the 2 hoses to the pump. All new fuel hose from filter to pump throughout engine are new, got rid of the 2 plastic hoses near the pump as well. Old hoses left under tank and plastic line under tunnel.

I'll try locate an ECU to swap. I know failure is rare, but what's the typical problem? The newer Bosch Motoronic failure is the solder joint eliminate from the PCB so resolve is the fix.

Haven't pull injector rail to check flow rate, leak but leaking injectors can't flood engine like my situation?

Haven't check, replace all rubber intake, vaccum line but that should not flood engine? I read that it runs rich instead of lean but shouldn't flood engine?

There are a few other sensors/ valves to check in various info but lookslike those apply to the newer 1.8L or 2L ? The one under the throttle in 1.7L is only affecting idle, not fuel mixture? Thanks.

Peter

did you first get it running WELL on spray gas?

You mean spray carb into the throttle? No. We got it running on fuel pump with new gas in tank for 1-2 min but the flood kill the plugs so we had to clean the plugs to restart.

Would that tell anything since compression is good? Thanks.

Peter

After tapping the MPS, spray De-Oxit into the ECU and connector, checking all the vaccum, intake connections, adjust idle speed on the throttle body, the car fire up and running ok.

Idle at 500rpm so I tried to increase the idle screw on the body but it won't go up but does go down. May be leaking vaccum somewhere?

Thanks everyone for the input. On to next phase.

Nice job.

Vacuum leak is usually associated with high or surging idle. But if the air bleed adjustment screw isn't really having an effect then the idle mixture may be too lean. Don't really put too much effort adjusting that until the engine is at temp, however. Cold idle and warm idle can be different beasts.

Have you checked dwell/timing?

Also, you're AAR may not be opening properly. It could be frozen shut, not allowing enough air for cold engine.

From what I read, stuck open AAR has normal idle on cold engine, high idle on warm engine?

My engine idle low at 500 rpm on cold engine and same after 15min warm up, idle screw adjustment? Will check timing. Thanks.

The AAR should be open on a cold engine to allow more air in. It's like a controlled vacuum leak when the engine needs it. When engine is cold, and AAR fully open, the idle may be roughly 1500 +/- a couple hundred rpm. Over a roughly 5 to 8 minute timeframe the AAR closes gradually until it's completely closed. It closes due to both an electrical lead on a heater element / resistor inside the AAR body and from actual heat in the engine bay.

AAR's get cruddy over time and they often freeze open, shut, or partially in between. Soaking them in solvent may help, but in some cases they need to be carefully pried open for some more robust cleaning and refurb.

Did you check the CHT resistance when the car was warmed up. After warm up reading should be 100 ohms or less. If no change cht is bad. It sends a signal to the ecu. As the the resistance lowers so does the fuel delivery. Cold 2k ohms or better, warm 100 ohms or less hot.

Thanks for the details. It kind of run lean so I measured CHT at 90 ohms after running for 15 min and searched the web for reference data as my neighbor thinks the CHT fail when hot. I was searching for ways to replace the $15 CHT so this will save me the PIA of replacing it.

Waiting to borrow the timing gun to check the dwell but at least it’s running 95% good for now.

Still didn't have a chance to check timing yet but when engine gets hot ,it flooded and die out. The hotter engine get, the quicker it choked. If I let it sit till cold then engine ran fine till hot again. Symptom of failing CHT?

Measured 2900 ohm cold and 137 ohm hot engine. Thanks.

In my experience, yes, the CHT needs to be replaced. I'd either go ahead and replace it and/or remove it and test out of the car. For a 1.7L, I believe it's supposed to be roughly 3K ohms at 60 degrees and less than 200 ohms when hot. Make sure to check the wiring from sensor to ECU as well. Look for breaks, kinks, etc.

Took advantage of the summer weather, break in the rain, to change out the CHT with the 13mm deep socket and small locking plier to turn the socket. Took sometime to orient things but once the process lock down, it took 10 min to finish. I pushed the wires inside the socket and superglue the washer in place.

However no change in performance. It would pull load up to less than 3k rpm 95% of the time no problem. If I kept the load to go beyond 3k rpm then it would choked and die. Restart and it runs fine till beyond 3k rpm then choked again. If I run load less than 3k rpm then it would run for 1/2hr. 95% of the time, after restart it would rev up to 4-5k rpm no problem.

During that 1/2hr drive, the 5% condition would choked at any rpm under load. Some time it would rev up to 5k no problem but die under load at any rpm. Sometime it would die at rev more than 1k with no load. One guarantee is that after every choke and die, if I restart engine it would run normal until past 3k then die.

Really weird symptoms. Any other suggestions beside check timing/dwell as I am still waiting to borrow timing gun and I don't think this problem is it.

Ok, so you can obviously eliminate CHT from the variables.

Symptoms are weird. Fuel starvation now maybe? You had a collapsed fuel line earlier. I wonder if there's a kink in a line somewhere else, or maybe the sock filter in the tank is fouled? Dirty or misaligned trigger points? Admittedly I'm grasping here without further info.

Is your sense, based on any other info and your instincts, that this is fuel delivery related (too little, too much) or ignition / timing? Certainly do dwell and timing to eliminate that as a possibility. Are the plugs soaked after it dies?

Hang in there. You'll figure it out.