Hey Guys,

I bought my (new) MPS #043 back in August 2003 (list $1,286.37) with a 45% discount for what I thought was robbery at $700 bucks. I purchased it locally (Farmington Hills, MI) from S-G Imported Car Parts, Inc. & really glad I did. In Aug 2004 it went bad & they replaced it free. Now this same one went bad & they again replaced it free.
Moral of the story. Be sure you buy from a reputable FLAPS, becasue the price is now list @ $1.652.50 (less your discount).
My advise is start looking for used ones or rebuilt one's. This is the heart of our D-Jet F.I. and you will need one if you stay with F.I.

I been dealing with our club guys Bleyseng & Bowlsby for the other parts on my electrical D-Jet re-do. I can't say enough for these guys. Support them so they are around a long time. Great quality & service.

Tom
BTW
#037 MPS is the same story.

Wow, thats about the price it cost me to put a sbc in my car....

As of now.

I have




No regrets.

For well under $1600, you can buy one of several different aftermarket EFI systems, with a full harness and sensors, and probably even a set of injectors. These won't require a failure prone electro-mechanical MPS, and are tunable to boot.

The only reason to stick with D-Jet these days is for a concours competition.

I wonder why the price keeps skyrocketing? The new price can't be representative of manufacturing costs. Wouldn't Bosch just have a store of prebuilt MPSes and then just calibrate them for the application and stamp them with the right number?

I wonder what their strategy is? Raise the price until zero are sold and then discontinue the part number?

I just keep stocking piling spares that I find at swap meets. I've got more than enough to last now until I go to something like Megasquirt.

yup, they are now more expensive then they are worth.

So, what is a reliable, affordable and accessible alternative???? I was real keen on the Kit Carlson system, but as we know it never has been offered.

the real question is what is wrong with your motor/wiring or ????

seems odd that you keep having problems with the same part...

sooner or later the dealer will tell you to go pound sand


Are these supposed to be NOS or freshly manufactured??

What is going out on them, the diapham or inductor coil?

Hey Guys,

This Bosch price increase has me concerned too. I was lucky to get (2) replaced free of charge by the local reputable dealer. My car is restored & thats why I stayed D-Jet F.I. I would go Chevy in a heart beat if I was starting over. For now I have another spare #043 MPS, if needed to keep it running.

I believe these high prices will bring out alternate systems. Stay tuned.

Tom
BTW
Old Mercedes & Volvo's have the same MPS problem.

Geez...how long is the warranty? One year or less....I would be thinking that maybe it would accidently go bad every 10-11 months or so....

Damn for that cost you can buy my SDS electronics, new fuel pump and regulator and not worry about fryingan engine! AND actually get some real performance!

Mueller,

I am anal so that's why I am doing my electrical re-do. I can't understand why these (new not mfg'd.) MPS keep going bad. Maybe, because they were manufactured in Spain (see pic.on box) or maybe because they have been on Bosch's shelf a long time?????

Don't need this BS in my life. Chevy power looks better every day (or maybe Audi power).

Tom

Opps, That's mfg'd in France?? Big difference.

Tom

Alternative EFI systems are many. SDS, as Jake mentioned, is about $1200-1400 with wiring and sensors, and I presume if you buy from Jake, you get Type IV fuelling maps from Jake, too.

Mueller is in the midst of setting up a Link EFI system. Ben (airsix) has used Perfect Power. Dave Hunt and others have used Megasquirt. The cheapest of these is about $400 fully assembled with wiring, connectors, etc.

Given a set of new carbs with linkage and manifolds is also over $1K now, the aftermarket EFI prices don't look so bad, anymore.

QUOTE (Thomas J Bliznik @ Jul 6 2005, 12:27 PM)

Moral of the story. Be sure you buy from a reputable FLAPS, becasue the price is now list @ $1.652.50 (less your discount). My advise is start looking for used ones or rebuilt one's. This is the heart of our D-Jet F.I. and you will need one if you stay with F.I.

Or... the moral of the story might be don't buy a French MPS. That's an awful lot of failures.

There are a lot of aftermarket EFI options available now for less than $1,600. You could do a megasquirt, turbo, and wideband O2 and still have enough left for a set of tires. Just a thought.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (Thomas J Bliznik @ Jul 6 2005, 02:06 PM)

Opps, That's mfg'd in France?? Big difference. Tom

I wonder if the diapham "age" hardens and becomes brittle from just sitting idle for so long on the shelf??

I'd be pissed as well......any dates of manufacture on the box or MPS?

AS EFI tuning and research goes further and further here I am gaining a ton of fuel MAPS to help the tuner.

Wait till you guys see the data I have gathered so far, I am updating the site all this week at night..... Its unbelievable on some combos and marginal on others so far, but all have made gains with the EFI, especially in running temperature.

If my F.I. really starts going I planned on trying to retrofit some VW CIS al la early Rabbit. Seems like it could be a simple, cheap and effective solution.

Hey Guys,

If Mueller or Jake comes out with an aftermarket kit I'll switch in a heart beat. Of course it has to the best proven one that fits my D-Jet system. I'll be the first to buy.

I want a modern F.I. system with the latest design and reliabilty. Who cares about being original if you have to worry every time you take the 914 out.

Looks like this is a good future after market for someone.

Tom
BTW
The guys who have all the readings on MPS's is Jeff Bowlsby and (Geoff) Bleyseng. Hopefully they will share correct MPS readings (for a partnership or cut in the action). Makes sense to me if their involved (wire harness, testing equip. knowledge, etc.). Jeff & Geoff hope you don't mind using your names.

Its ok by me.

I have been trying to get diaphrams made for a couple of years without success.

The settings are read using a Wavetek induction meter so unless you have one of those they aren't gonna help anyone much.

Geoff, I've got one of those laying around here
I think it's off a 1.7 (or at least, that's what's written on the label by the PO)
Dunno if it's working or not...
Pick it up next time you or Monique are here (or I can send it to ya)

Woohoo, a euro MPS!

We are planning to come to the Netherlands in late Sept, soo will the 914/6 be running???

We should hook up then.

Wanna go to Spain?

QUOTE

The guys who have all the readings on MPS's is Jeff Bowlsby and (Geoff) Bleyseng. Hopefully they will share correct MPS readings (for a partnership or cut in the action). Makes sense to me if their involved (wire harness, testing equip. knowledge, etc.). Jeff & Geoff hope you don't mind using your names.

Glad we could help out William. Actually the mps only had a subtle leak, it would have worked for a long time, but it was not right and I am glad you were able to replace it. I hope the replacement is a good one and it should last a loooong time. The orioginals seem to last 20-30 years....

I suspect the leak was from dry case seals...easy enough to repair.

All of the MPS values I have are available to anyone...they are direct from the D-Jet Master....Brad Anders website. I posted the link recently to the pulse width values chart for anyone tuning a stock FI using stock fuel pressure and injectors.

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Jul 7 2005, 02:24 AM)

Woohoo, a euro MPS!

are they any different????
(I wouldn't know a 4 banger part if it bit me in the ass )

QUOTE

We are planning to come to the Netherlands in late Sept, soo will the 914/6 be running???

Won't be running, but I should have it back from the bodyshop some time in august (keeping fingers x-ed) and I should have some time off in august to work on it...

QUOTE

We should hook up then.

Definately!

QUOTE

Wanna go to Spain?

Tapas, paella

i need to test the one that came off the 73'.

k

Kevin, Just pump it to 15hg with a vacuum pump and let it sit for 5 minutes to see if it bleeds down.

Has the epoxy been removed and the machined plug drilled? If so it can be reset.


Yes Jeroen, Paella and tapas!! I'll let you know when and where as maybe you can sneak out for a little vacation with us.

The numbers I have found for the 037 MPS are:

.74 15hg
1.12 4hg
1.52 0hg

which means it is set up to run richer at idle and way richer at WOT

epoxy plug intact. if you're going to walkers this month can you bring your pump with you for a quick field check? if it holds vaccum, are there resistance values that need to be met to insure it's a servicable unit? pm sent in 2 minutes.

k

This ain't good news...$1600!.

I have 2 rebuilt 043 MPS's ....one as a spare. I have been having idle problems even after $400 worth of new injectors installed Saturday. Just for the heck of it I swapped MPS's and all idle/power issues went away.

That means a rebuilt MPS has a life span of 250 miles! @$200+ per rebuild that adds up to several thousand dollars a year of normal driving.

Time to convert to carbs.....I already have over $2K invested on NEW D-Jet componants....talk about throwing good money after bad!

Maybe I SHOULD have kept the 308......(except the 914 is more fun to drive, albeit a little short on power compaired to the F car).

QUOTE (MarkG @ Jul 7 2005, 08:09 AM)

Time to convert to carbs.....I already have over $2K invested on NEW D-Jet componants....talk about throwing good money after bad!

Converting to carbs? Would you amputate your arm because of a hangnail? (jk)
You could convert to megasquirt EFI for a couple hundred bucks (probably half the cost of carbs). That would be the cheapest EFI option and there are a dozen others. In this day and age there is no reason to put carbs on anything but chainsaws and weedwackers.

EFI good. Carbs bad.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (MarkG @ Jul 7 2005, 08:09 AM)

Maybe I SHOULD have kept the 308......(except the 914 is more fun to drive, albeit a little short on power compaired to the F car).

Think of all the money you saved on gold chains and powder blue leisure suits....

MarkG & Mr. Z

Your comments owning a 308 made me chuckle. My brother had one & still has his gold chains & blue L-suit. I blame our mom for his downfall.

To all others.
This MPS price situtation is a "Wake Up Call" We need alternate solutions. Don't think about going carbs. We just need to find an inexpensive (cheaper) fix. Untill that happens start looking for spares to keep our 914's running.

Tom
BTW
Keep supporting our 914 vendor's. We need them.

Come out of the dark ages... come to the L-Jet side

Someone (hint, hint) should look at using a more modern pressure sensor and adapt it to a plug and play unit. Could be a good mod.

Look here

M

QUOTE (Engman @ Jul 7 2005, 10:34 AM)

Someone (hint, hint) should look at using a more modern pressure sensor and adapt it to a plug and play unit. Could be a good mod. Look here M

It's not so simple. Modern sensors have a voltage output. The MPS has a varying inductance that is part of a tank circuit that determines pulse width. For the trouble, might as well change to a new EFI system.


Andrew

Those sensors work with pressure , not vacuum!

Kevin, I will be gone outta town that weekend
When is that BBQ gonna happen that you and DaveH promised??? timing is gud for this summer...lots of sun, no rain, hint hint.

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Jul 7 2005, 07:17 AM)

if you're going to walkers this month can you bring your pump with you for a quick field check? if it holds vaccum, are there resistance values that need to be met to insure it's a servicable unit? k

Kevin,

I plan on going to the swap meet. I can bring my vacuum pump along if you need one. Probably a good idea to just bring it so I can test any that might be for sale.

Well, I just vacuum tested the Bret 043 MPS I had rebuilt via PP 250 miles ago (ironic = $1.00 per mile of service).....would not hold vacuum for more than 20 seconds......

The AA rebuilt MPS is doing fine so far @ 45 miles use.

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Jul 7 2005, 12:08 PM)

When is that BBQ gonna happen that you and DaveH promised??? timing is gud for this summer...lots of sun, no rain, hint hint.

BAR-B-QUE??? Someone mention BAR-B-QUE???

MMMMMMmmmmmmmm... give me a couple weeks notice & I'll make the journey for that!

Oh, and what's a good used MPS worth these days? I have one from my 1.7 that I think is fine but haven't done the vacuum test Geoff mentioned.

.........b

$75


Come on, Kevin. What about that BBQ????

Funny, i have run my old MPS for ten years with no failure.

What could be wrong? there are two coils, they could short, or open electircally. the container could develop a vacuum leak, the diaphram can fail. the spring could change tension Dirt could get inside interfering with the movement

what would could cause each of these failures?

electric problems on the coils could be caused by an over voltage that melts the insulation or burns out the coil, the container could get a leak form vibration that owuld cause the body to rub on the car, wearing a hole.

the diaphram could fatigue, but mine has lasted a decade at least it might even be the original one, I do not know. the diaphram might corrode, but what from, storage conditions in the stock room? Did crud get in teh vacuum hose port and move around inside until it jammed the motion?

Spring tensin loss, high temperature could do that, but that temp would also melt the plactic parts, so that not likely.

this is a mystry alright.

Geoff

You already missed the Barbie. it was in May at Kevin's when all of the rhodys were blooming. he yard was spectacular.

My MPS is the size of a quarter and costs less than 20 bucks. It does respond to vacuum. 1 bar is 100 Kpa. The sensor will repond from 0 to 250 Kpa so that's 1 bar vacuum to 1.5 bar of boost (It would be fun to play with that side of the MPS). On decel my engine will pull as much as 84 Kpa of vacuum. Idle is around 67 Kpa of vacuum and WOT is about 1-3 Kpa of vacuum.

Dave

Shit, I was outta town.

How about one at your house???

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Jul 8 2005, 05:48 AM)

Geoff You already missed the Barbie. it was in May at Kevin's when all of the rhodys were blooming. he yard was spectacular. My MPS is the size of a quarter and costs less than 20 bucks. It does respond to vacuum. 1 bar is 100 Kpa. The sensor will repond from 0 to 250 Kpa so that's 1 bar vacuum to 1.5 bar of boost (It would be fun to play with that side of the MPS). On decel my engine will pull as much as 84 Kpa of vacuum. Idle is around 67 Kpa of vacuum and WOT is about 1-3 Kpa of vacuum. Dave

Your sensor does respond to vacuum, but it would not be worth the effort to try to adapt it to D-Jet as somebody suggested. Trying to convert voltage to inductance would not be so easy.

You have a good argument for changing the whole EFI system though. I bet you did it for less than the cost of a new MPS.


Andrew


Andrew


Andrew

Geoff

How bout we try "Fire it up Take 2" when I get the rebuild done?

Andrew

I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure it was that inexpensive mainly because I took a few wrong turns. That a problem with DIY. I wouldn't make the same mistakes again.

It would be relatively easy to make an EFI for a stock engine but, once you have a programmable ECU who wants to stay stock and then tuning issues pop up. Wideband O2 and dyno time. I've been tempted to try to help people set up MS but I think it really is best if people learn it for themselves.

Dave

Dave

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Jul 8 2005, 10:11 AM)

Geoff How bout we try "Fire it up Take 2" when I get the rebuild done? Andrew I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure it was that inexpensive mainly because I took a few wrong turns. That a problem with DIY. I wouldn't make the same mistakes again. It would be relatively easy to make an EFI for a stock engine but, once you have a programmable ECU who wants to stay stock and then tuning issues pop up. Wideband O2 and dyno time. I've been tempted to try to help people set up MS but I think it really is best if people learn it for themselves. Dave Dave

I guess what I'm saying is, better than somebody coming up with a plug'n'play adaptation for an MPS, it would be better for somebody to make a plug'n'play EFI system (based on MS?) for the typeIV for those who don't want the hassle of tuning their own EFI (and inadvertently making it more expensive) or finding obsolete parts.

Wait a minute, isn't somebody doing this already?

Andrew

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Jul 8 2005, 11:11 AM)

Geoff How bout we try "Fire it up Take 2" when I get the rebuild done?

I am hungry, so how long do I have to wait???

Damn, you need my around to set up the firing order. 1-2-3-4 right?


Seems like several people have gonna do it but the results are -

Geoff

I'm not sure how long it will take. I'm still cleaning up the garage from the last try. I've got to hone the lifter bores of the new case so the ceramic lifters will fit. I think Jake said they are .002" over. Instructions are to use a 1" brake cylinder hone and hone them using solvent until the lifters will just glide through. Then I have to clean the case of filings from tapping the galley plugs.

I'm not sure how long it will take to assemble. I have a few more things to do this time like gap the rings and check clearances since this was all done by Jake last time.

Sometime this fall I suppose.

This time I won't let Betsy buy those fake steaks. I think that was a curse on the whole thing.

Dave

Ok, but it sounds like in gonna be in Sept sometime and I should be in Holland in late Sept.

How about I bring a couple of packs of Buffalo burgers ??? will that push things along?

I'm not sure

Gator would do the trick.

I will bring some Ostrich!
If my djet goes south, I guess I will have to go the MegaSquirt route. All the MPS save one, that I one don’t hold pressure for longer than 5 minuets or so.