Found this on the NASIOC (Subaru) forum. Interesting reading about how the passenger slid through the 4 point harness into the footwell area!!

I figured this would be of interest since we had our track day out there only a few months ago.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread...16&page=1&pp=25


-Tony

Notice the posts about the anti-submarine belt not being there. I would make a bet that the driver did not have one either and since he hit his head on the steering wheel I would bet the belts going over his shoulders were around the top of the seat and not through openings in the back? I am really paranoid about the belts in the race car since I was at Willow Springs several years ago and saw the vintage VW Bug T-bone the Datsun sedan. The driver of the bug came through his belts too as they came over the top of the seat as he was very tall and the shoulder slots were deemed too low for his body size! Remember, if you hit a wall at 100MPH, there is over 30 tons of force trying to pull you through those belts!

I couldn't remember that wall being there at all.
i just watched Chris' in-car video and sure enough.
I have no idea what it was there for. They should take this as a lesson learned and eliminate the block wall. It had no soft barrier ( hay bales, tires ) Not even a gravel trap.
Green paint isn't enough on a track that sees a lot of track days/DE's.







It's really strange that I don't remember that wall.
Most of were passing it at 85 mph plus...Guess that's why.

KT

This thing is right off the track...That's crazy.

It looks like they keep a debris pile behind it?

Out in the middle of the infield where you can't hit it makes a little more sense.



KT

Boy! I don't remember that wall either! Is this the Streets or the main track?

Yikes, bad all around...track setup, luck, safety equipment. Guess if I were to do track days I'll get a 6-point harness (had a headon with a 5-point....hurt the boys real bad...guess a 6-point would feel 'better').
Hope they are OK after their hospital stay!

Every time I see one of these threads I think twice about wanting to go out on a track without:

a beater track car
a full cage
proper seats
proper harnesses

Oof. Thanks again to Drew for keeping us all safe on track day. This is definitely a reminder of how dangerous it can be. How well do you think a 914 would hold up in the same crash? My guess is not well. (a V8 914 could easily get up to the same speeds at that point)

Could someone who knows the track well point out the wall location on this image? I'm having trouble visualizing it.

see green dot

damn. proper seats (with SLOTS for shoulder belts), an anti-sub belt or two, and a full-face helmet are critical for this stuff, imho.

hope they pull through okay.

http://www.rcrewracing.com/dan/trackday/



more pics, nothing graphic, but very illustrative of the severity of impact.

QUOTE (carreraguy @ Jul 7 2005, 11:08 AM)

Boy! I don't remember that wall either! Is this the Streets or the main track?

It is really tooo close to the track even though on a long straighaway. Looks like what really happend dropped two wheels off and "pulled" back on tract with over correction and then shot straight across track into the wall.

Most people try to get back on track way before they and car are ready. Driving on a track without adequate instruction is just looking for trouble.

Mike

Wow! I had to go back and look at my in car videos to see that wall. Never noticed it, since that's where I usually take a quick peek at the gauges. Damned if I can figure out how the guy hit it unless he had a huge equipment failure, but it shouldn't be there. Bet it won't be next week.

No Airbags? Would it have helped?

4 or more point belts can be a great safety feature, but when installed or adjusted wrong, they can actually also be more dangerous than stock belts

please, please, please always take your time to properly adjust your harness and make sure your passengers do too

track accidents can and will happen...

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jul 7 2005, 01:27 PM)

4 or more point belts can be a great safety feature, but when installed or adjusted wrong, they can actually also be more dangerous than stock belts please, please, please always take your time to properly adjust your harness and make sure your passengers do too track accidents can and will happen...

I've never noticed that wall and I agree with Howard, it will probably be gone soon. There was a similar wall up between turn 2 and 3 that a 993 wiped out the side of his car on about 2 years ago and they removed it before the next event. I'm ordering a HANS device and all new 5 point belts next week.

Reafirms my intent to put full cage and race seats in addition to my 5 point harnesses before I take my car to any track. Oh yeah full face helment when I'm on the track.

QUOTE (drew365 @ Jul 7 2005, 05:17 PM)

I've never noticed that wall and I agree with Howard, it will probably be gone soon. There was a similar wall up between turn 2 and 3 that a 993 wiped out the side of his car on about 2 years ago and they removed it before the next event. I'm ordering a HANS device and all new 5 point belts next week.

drew365,

I'm looking in to a Hans too. If I can get another person to join in on your purchase , can get we a group buy of sorts?

If my effin' schedule ever lets me get back into the track events seriously, I also have a Hans on my to-do list. If someone gets a group-buy going then please spread the word.

QUOTE

full face helment when I'm on the track

I thought the same thing.
And the Hans, too.

KT

There is a few of us Arizonies heading out to the big track at Willow tomorrow for this weekends NASA event. Three of us are PCA and NASA instructors and will instruct at this event. All drivers should strive for smoothness in every move they make. It is easy on the car's equipment, doesn't upset the car's balance and keeps people out of trouble.

There is no shame in going off the track!!!! I still do it quite often when I am trying to find the edge. I did drop a wheel off at Streets during the 914 Club event and so did the other instuctor I was following. We just came back on smoothly and gently. If you are a novice, never jerk the wheel for any reason - it makes instructors pee their pants. If you are a more advanced driver, remember, DE events are practice sessions to improve your skills, we want you to go fast (in fact we will teach you to go fast), but be smooth and safe.

P.S. At AZ PCA DE events, you have to be an instructor to take a passenger. It's not to protect the passenger, it's to allow the driver to concentrate on improving. Just something to think about. I'm off the soap box.

Andy

QUOTE (0396 @ Jul 7 2005, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (drew365 @ Jul 7 2005, 05:17 PM) I've never noticed that wall and I agree with Howard, it will probably be gone soon. There was a similar wall up between turn 2 and 3 that a 993 wiped out the side of his car on about 2 years ago and they removed it before the next event. I'm ordering a HANS device and all new 5 point belts next week. drew365, I'm looking in to a Hans too. If I can get another person to join in on your purchase , can get we a group buy of sorts?

There is a group buy going on right now. The POC put together as many member as was interested and is arranging installation right now. My understanding is a 10% discount and free mounting of the helmet hardware. I am supposed to be in with this buy but have not been contacted yet so I don't know what is up with that.
However, Werks II in Burbank is offering their own special. Apparently Galen got po'd at the POC for some reason and is offering 10% discount, free mounting and free shoulder pad color choice. So if you want you should contact them now before he stops the promotion. Werks II, Galen, (818) 845-2530.

QUOTE (drew365 @ Jul 8 2005, 05:54 AM)

QUOTE (0396 @ Jul 7 2005, 09:32 PM) QUOTE (drew365 @ Jul 7 2005, 05:17 PM) I've never noticed that wall and I agree with Howard, it will probably be gone soon. There was a similar wall up between turn 2 and 3 that a 993 wiped out the side of his car on about 2 years ago and they removed it before the next event. I'm ordering a HANS device and all new 5 point belts next week. drew365, I'm looking in to a Hans too. If I can get another person to join in on your purchase , can get we a group buy of sorts? There is a group buy going on right now. The POC put together as many member as was interested and is arranging installation right now. My understanding is a 10% discount and free mounting of the helmet hardware. I am supposed to be in with this buy but have not been contacted yet so I don't know what is up with that. However, Werks II in Burbank is offering their own special. Apparently Galen got po'd at the POC for some reason and is offering 10% discount, free mounting and free shoulder pad color choice. So if you want you should contact them now before he stops the promotion. Werks II, Galen, (818) 845-2530.

drew365 ,

I was contacted via email for the POC group sale too, never opted in . But since Galen and I go way way back,I'll send
the business his way.

Thanks

If I don't hear from someone about where to go for installation by Monday, I will call Galen also.

i never noticed the wall either. but i was too busy with zios yelling at me and checking my mirrior.

k

Before we allowed out on the track (Thunderhill) for DE, we spent an entire day with Hank Watts doing a DE ground school.

There was much to learn / absorb during this day. It really blew my mind how much - and this was after reading Hank's book.

To be honest I don't understand how someone can go out on track without this type of prerequisite and still be safe.

Kind of like asking my 16 year old son to just start driving on city roads without knowing the rules.

Is this the same WRX that was at our WCC 05 event?
There was a white WRX in my run group that new the track very well.
I wonder if it was the same guy.

QUOTE (Steve @ Jul 8 2005, 12:52 PM)

Is this the same WRX that was at our WCC 05 event? There was a white WRX in my run group that new the track very well. I wonder if it was the same guy.

highly unlikely -- in any case, i remember the wrx in our group as being different.

There were at least 2 WRXs. One was ours, a silver wagon. The other was an STi that I think was white. Ours definitely wasn't the one that knew the track very well, so it must have been the STi. I doubt it was the same one though, I don't remember any blue tape.

again.. lap belts goes on the hip/ leg joint tight, then place and adjust shoulder harness so it doesnt pull the lap belt up. and the seat back needs to be upright not laid back like the ricers ride around all reclined like in the dentist chair.