Hi all

So, adjusting my valves (or trying to) for the first time after a recent rebuild. It's been a good 500 miles or so.

(1974 1.8)

So - I set up to TDC - assuming my cylinder #1 valves should be open - so I'll go in and check for .006 clearance. - but no deal - in fact - the valves are closed.

So I have the car in gear and i'm turning the tire and watching the valves to see when they're open.

When they're open - I slide the feeler in and we're good on clearance for the exhaust valve.

But when i get out and look at the distributor - i'm NOT EVEN CLOSE to TDC. see images:

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment


So - I'm a little confused.


PS - Also - the Intake valve - i can't even get the feeler in... from what i understand the feeler should be able to slide into to both the Exhaust AND Intake at this point?

PPS - the car seemed to be running fine - i just started this job because they said you have to do this 500 miles or so after a rebuild.

is this crazy - or am I doing it wrong....or both? Thanks!!

With the correct 205 distributor which you have the rotor must point to the notch on the body (or near) only if you are lined up with the "0'' on the fan,this ONLY applies if the distributor drive is correctly orientated ,often folks don't put them back in right.
Looks like you are lined up with #3 (?) check if you have the valves full closed on #3 and valve clearance,that will confirm the drive is out or you are on the wrong fan mark.
I have a fan assembly that had all sorts of marks on it,I finally worked out it had 3 extra marks for each of the other 3 cylinders,not a bad idea but somewhat confusing.
Good luck and report back.
Click to view attachment

Thanks for your input! Ok - that makes sense as the distributor drive came out - and I probably put it back in wrong. I'm just confused though to how it's even running if (not knowing the drive was in the right spot) and setting the timing to the notch on the distributor - Isn't it sending a spark to cylinder 1 while the valves are closed?

And once i have it where the exhaust valve is open for cylinder 1 - should i then take the distributor out and readjust the d-drive so that the rotor is pointing at the notch?

thanks again!

The crank makes two revolutions to complete one cycle, while the distributor does one revolution. So the marks on the flywheel and fan, when aligned with the notch or case split can be TDC of either #1 or #3. To verify which one, pull the distributor cap and see which terminal the rotor is pointing towards. Easy peasy!

ok - so i took the plugs out - as soon as i started to feel air pushing out on cylinder 1 - i checked the rotor. It was at (or pretty close to) TDC on the distributor notch (but the mark on the fan was probably still about an inch away).

I got the mark on the fan wheel right in the notch - and checked the valves.

Strangely - the only one i could get the 006 feeler in was the Exhaust Valve on cylinder 4!!?

still confused. :/

Everything may be correct. Valves stretch and seat in reducing the gap. I am going to mark my fan blades to show TDC position of each cylinder. You marked one of the fan blades nearcthe timing mark. I dont remember if it was at 7 or 27 ° .

Both valves should be closed not open for TDC on cylinder 1. Meaning both rocker arms will not be compressing the valve spring and will feel loose if you grab a rocker arm and wiggle it.

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Everything may be correct. Valves stretch and seat in reducing the gap. I am going to mark my fan blades to show TDC position of each cylinder. You marked one of the fan blades nearcthe timing mark. I dont remember if it was at 7 or 27 ° .
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Hey bruce! Yeah - I marked the 2 blades on both sides of the painted notch mark - so it was easier to find when it was getting close.

OK - so, I think what I'll do is stop trying to make it more complicated by trying to understand what's happening - and just do it!

I'm just gonna set it at TDC and adjust the valves on cylinder 1. I think what's throwing me is that they've ALL tightened up since the rebuild.

I'll adjust the valves for 1 & 3 - then flip it 180 and adjust 2 & 4

No disrespect but

This thread highights the reason why
You should never ! learn !
How to ( be a mechanic) on a air cooled motors

Very bad idea. One mistake could blow it all when you fire it up . better find religion

We're always learning. It's just a question of tuition

At least the type IV isn't an interference engine...

Oh, I get it!! You came out of the womb knowing how to adjust valves!

Quit being such a dick.

sorry you beat me to a similar reply,I will stop now cause I might get more vocal

Not a good idea. You'll find that some of the valves are open and some are closed.

Remember that the crankshaft makes two complete rotations for every one of the camshaft (and also the distributor). So you see the TDC mark on the fan, it could mean that #1 is at TDC, or it could mean that #3 is at TDC. The other one will not be.

That's why most instructions say to set the mark on the fan and then look at the distributor rotor; that should tell you which cylinder is actually the one currently at TDC.

--DD

No one posted Cap'n Krusty's procedures?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=28758

There are 8 valves in the engine, but only 4 camshaft lobes. That's because the valves on opposite sides of the engine share the lobes (for example - and I hope I get this right - the #4 and #2 exhaust share the same lobe).

You want to adjust the clearance of your valve when the follower is on the base circle of the cam, not when it's on the lobe. So when you see that one side valve is fully open (depressed) then you know for a fact that the opposite side is on the base lobe and you can adjust the clearance on that one.

Knowing this, you don't have to worry about where TDC is, or where the engine is in its rotation, all you need to know is which valve are fully open (an easy visual check from underneath) so that you can know which are fully closed.

That's the simple elegance of Cap'n's procedures. Put the car on jackstands, take off both valve covers, rotate the engine to fully depress some valves and then adjust the opposite ones.

Soup.

RIP Cap'n!

Lots of good advice here except of course Logo.

I am not the best source since it has been a long time since I have set type 4 valves, so I can’t site specific mark references, but here is my recommendation:

Find a procedure that you can follow and make sense of using the basic understandings explained by others in this thread - the cam and rotor turn at 1/2 crank speed, thus it requires two crank revolutions to get #1 (or any cylinder) back to TDC

Using this basic understanding, with all the plugs out, rotate the crank clockwise (By rotating wheels or wrenching the crank or some other method) until you can rotate and fully predict when you get to TDC on each cylinder following the firing order at each 180 degrees of rotation. Determine TDC by a method that makes sense to you (feeling the air pressure come up on compression, watching for both valves to be closed, understanding the correct correlation of timing marks and distributor position etc etc)

When you can do this repeatedly (all probably made easier with the help of a patient helper), then use your knowledge and understanding to go about adjusting the valves with confidence in an orderly way.

At this point, if you understand it well enough, you might even be able to adopt a time saving method such as the one described by Capt Crusty, or turning the crank 360 and doing both cylinders on one side and then moving to the other side or whatever.

But you gotta understand the basics to graduate. You will get it. I commend your effort. Good luck and enjoy.

"Lots of good advice here except of course Logo."

Seriously, your thinking of how it works is all flawed. If your gonna do it by the tdc method, it's one cylinder at a time. Put the rotor on the notch in the diz. Adjust both valves on cyl 1. Move to cyl 2 and repeat.

Or use the cap'ns method as posted.

I personally have never and dont know how to adjust my valves ! So i let a extremely experienced person do it for a fee .

But if i did decide to learn and diy
I would start with a stock 1600 / pos bug and only when i mastered that would i move to the 914 type4

Not trying to be rude . but to me its common sense

Even experienced TIV mechanics had to learn it. Anyone can, and there's no reason not to if you want to. This forum is THE perfect place for someone to ask and learn. Following the Krusty method is easy, even if it takes getting over the initial confusion.

Sounds like you got it ,the rotor position won't be dead on to the notch but if the fan lines up to the pointer you are fine.
Seems like your valves have closed up which has been mentioned and is normal but certainly not a good thing.

100%. Like I said before...we never stop learning. And the support of this community is empowering. Go for it!

Sorry, I've got more respect for the guy willing to learn how to work on his car. I guess I never really realized how much more exotic a T4 was compared to a T1 when it comes to doing a valve adjustment.

@coronamike

Keep asking questions. Adjusting valves is some of the very basic maintenance that every 914 owner should know how to do.

A couple things:
1) You want to adjust valves when they are CLOSED not OPEN. When the valves are rocked inward to the engine so the spring is compressed they are OPEN. I think your OP was just confused when the valves were open vs closed.

2) When doing the TDC method for valve adjustment (which is the harder way of doing it) work one cylinder at a time, and both valves should be closed.

3) Don't try to guess TDC by looking at the dizzy. First of all its not precise enough. Second this trick only works if the dizzy drive gear was indexed correctly when the motor was built, and I've seen lots where the drive gear was installed 180 out and driven that way for years.

4) learn the Krusty method. I have a chart I keep in my Haynes manual of the Krusty way. You can do your valves 100% never getting out from under your car and never needing to bother setting TDC for each cylinder.

Zach

Thanks Zach,

So, yeah I was just going to get under there and just do it yesterday. But i ran into some problems. First of all - I don't know if the rebuild shop I went to used the wrong nuts on the valve rockers - but a 13mm is too small and a 14mm is slightly too big!

and then even if i were to get the nuts loosened up in there - there's hardly any room to get a flat head in there to back off the valve screws.

I'm starting to wonder if I should just take it to a shop. :/ I have a feeling it will be expensive though. I just got done dropping about 5k for the rebuild.

With the heat exchangers in place its a balancing act. But you can get to all of them.
This is why the Krusty way is good. you stay under the car and keep your focus on moving around to find the best way to get everything. If an ape with ham fists like me can do it, so can you. :-)

Valve adjusting is one of those things that takes FOREVER the first time, and then gets faster every time you do it. You learn which way you need to origami yourself in to get access to the screws and bolts.

The nuts should be 13mm nuts. the one in your picture looks slightly mangled so it may be a little out of spec or your wrenches may be a little out of spec. Try a 1/2 inch wrench and see if that works for you. 1/2 and 13mm are close enough that they can usually be interchangeable but there is a minute difference. Or go buy another 13mm wrench and see if it fits better. I have an el-cheapo 13mm wrench that works for some 13mm fasteners but not others. It happens.

Zach

Note that a coin can be much easier to get in the adjuster slot than a screwdriver.

There is a lot of good advice here and I definitely agree with gereed75; find something you're comfortable with doing and just keep doing it. There's an article posted in Pelican Parts that describes it pretty good (https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_valve_adjust/914_valve_adjust.htm). I'd also recommend investing in a few manuals like the Haynes manual and a book called, How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive by John Muir and Richard Sealey. This particular book is not Porsche specific, but it does have a ton of good info for VW engines, including valve adjustments.

One of the best things about these engines is, they are pretty simple and easy to work on, plus, this forum is excellent. Don't be afraid to ask questions! I ask a lot of dumb ones myself!

Good luck!

Wow, I guess there is one thing you definitely haven't learned, and that is to put the shovel down and stop digging the hole any deeper.

Dave