With the addition of my 2270 I'm now pushing oil temps toward 230 on an 80 degree day. I am not surprised, but wanted to run it for a bit just to make sure an external oil cooler is truly necessary.

I think it is truly necessary.

I've researched and planned this some, but I'm still looking for sanity check, comments, and answers where appropriate. You'll notice I'm trying to stick with Setrab for most of this under the assumption that the pieces should work together.

1. This will be rear-mount cooler: Setrab Series 1 19-row w/Fan. It looks compact, has the fan, and was recommended to me. It will be mounted somewhere under trunk / over gearbox, probably passenger side.

2. Sandwich plate adapter. I've considered going with CFR's system, but I'll probably stick with the sandwich plate route at this point. Which sandwich plate? I assume it needs to be low-profile to avoid interference with cross-bar, but these things run from $26 to over $200 depending, I guess, whether or not they have thermostat. I was thinking of going with this one: 3/4 x 16 1-inch Sandwich Plate

3. Oil line fittings. I guess I need 2 for the sandwich adapter plate and 2 for the cooler itself. From a planning standpoint should I assume straight, 45 or 90 degree angled, particularly for clearance purposes off the adapter?

4. Oil lines. Going with steel braided, and I was thinking about 10 feet of AN8. Any advantage/disadvantage to AN8 versus AN10?. I'm going to get the Koul Tool oil line tool to help fabricate these.

5. Thermostat fan switch - was planning on the Setrab 190 degree thermostat switch.

6. Then I guess I need to go fused or relay on the power. Need to research that a bit more.

7. Am I missing anything or any other gotchas before I start ordering stuff?

As always, thanks for advice and help. Adding an external cooler obviously makes everything a bit more complex and crowded underneath. I guess I should have stuck with the original 1.7L I had years ago. NOT!

If you are going to run DE events think carefully....I had a rear mount that still wasn't enough for 30 min sessions so then went front mount .... that did the job perfectly.....
Still got rear cooler sitting around here if you want it...

I used Tangerine Racing Kit.One was a bit short for my liking, but was able to make it work. So far so good. Haven't driven the car yet.

Click to view attachment

Thanks John / Maury.

I don't think this car is going to see a track any time soon. When it was in VA I was about a 60 minute very pleasant drive to Summit Point, but where it is now I'm far from any track. So I'm hoping a rear mount will work for street use.

Rob, Here is the one I did

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=314444&hl=

It is currently still mounted on the car but is disconnected. The big thing I was going for was no cutting on the car. The mount I devised integrated into the trans mount actually worked very well. I could yank it out of there if interested. It seemed to be pretty effective.

Let me know. Go Navy

On wiring: From the specs on the Setrab site, the fan can take up to 6A. Best to arrange a relayed + fused dedicated feed for that puppy.

It looks like a neat, compact little unit - nice find.

- Tony

i included a temp sensor and a PMV temp controller that included a relay. Took the fan power off the starter battery lead. Mounted the controller off of the trunk light mount, again to avoid drilling any holes in the original tub.

Gerry, that's a sweet setup. Very nicely done. I appreciate the offer, but the main thing is just the knowledge that a nice shroud like that can be fabbed up. Looks like a nice little project. That's excellent info, thanks.


Good info, Tony.

Thanks for everyone's help

My 2 cents:
Don't fabricate your own hoses.
After you installed the sandwich plate and cooler, you see exactly what you need.
Then have a hydraulics company make the hoses for you (the kind of shop that supplies for farm equipment etc.).

Its done quick (on the spot mostly) and will never leak. Btw stainless braided is over rated.

I was just watching a video from Scott at Rennigade about how they set up the oil cooler that I thought was pretty cool. I created the link so it starts right at that point so you don't have to watch through the whole video https://youtu.be/cw-sYGtIB5M?t=1359

I like ss hoses. They take minutes to make and should last a long time. The Koul tool makes it super easy.

Thanks for everyone's input. Put a sizable order in to Pegasus Racing today, after getting some friendly help from the proprietor. I decided to go with the SS lines as I kind of want to learn how to make them. I did get the Koul Tool for that. The guy at Pegasus was recommending also getting some vice adapter, but said it wasn't 100% necessary.

I also decided to go with 10 AN at the end of the day. So in summary, my "shopping cart:"

1 Setrab 19 row series 1 oil cooler w/fanpack
1 mounting bracket for said cooler
1 Setrab sandwich plate adapter
4 m22 to 10AN adapters
10 feet of SS braided AN10 (hope that's enough after taking into account FUBARs!)
4 AN 10 hose fittings
1 inline thermostatic fan switch
1 crossover relay
1 wiring harness
1 AN 10 Koul Tool

Here's a question: what oil filters are you running with sandwich plate? I can see it's going to be a tight fit against that crossbar with the Mahle filter. I recall reading that a 944 filter fits and is lower profile?

I'm going to try to fab up something like Gerry posted here. Hey @Gereed75 , I also learned that "AN" stands for "Army Navy"

Big thanks also to Joe ( @Porschef ) for walking through with me what he did on his setup, and to John ( @wndsrfr ) for making a generous offer of his oil cooler.

I'll try to update once I get parts and get ready to install.

Pleasure talking with you Rob; the Mahle filter fits just fine with the sandwich plate.

Rob
I used the same Setrab 19 row cooler w/ fan pack as you are getting. and the 190 deg thermo switch. With a sandwich adapter.

Also added the Setrab oil thermostat. This allows the oil to both bypass and flow some oil through the cooler until it hits 180 deg and then directs all the oil through the cooler.

Pictures of my installation and the brackets I fabbed up are in my build thread at post #119

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...5786&st=100

This puts the cooler parallel to the trunk and allows an easy run of the AN10 lines. I liked the idea of running the lines through the engine compartment, to allow easy access to the valve covers for valve adjustments.

The AN10 lines are very stiff and would not easily move out of the way for valve adjustments if they run past the covers.

I have more pictures if you would like any info on anything I did.

Here's lots of stuff for you form the classic forum.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=108328

I did get a lot of my initial info from that thread (and others), thanks.

@Olympic 914 Tom, that's a sweet and very clean install. I was thinking of going through the J tube hole and engine compartment as well after speaking with Joe (Porschef). Question: would the AN10 hoses bend sufficiently or do I need to do like you did and install a junction / bend point? If I do need that, is it clear in your thread what parts you used. Also need to find a grommet I can use for exiting the rear tin. I need to go back and read your posts in detail...

Thanks!

mine was installed by CFR while the car was up there 2 years ago for rust repair. Used their kit . cooler mounted up next to transmission under rear trunk and used the adaptor kit. uses a fat bosch oil filter and has less than a finger's width between it and the bar but it doent rub and I can get the filter wrench on it .
it works well and keeps my temps on a hot hard running day below 230, no more than 220 but never over 230 whereas before this in the mountains I would go over that on a long prolonged run up the mountain. I have the same fan set up with thermostatic on/off fused , small fuse block next to battery.

Good luck it sounds like you have it covered. Chris used An fittings and lines, no issues even after removing ti and putting back in.

Phil

Rob

Not sure if the AN10 lines are flexible enough to go up through the J-tube hole and head back to the cooler. They may be though. You can probably check that first. I used the Setrab oil thermostat as a junction point. Imagine a H with the center open. it allows oil to flow up each leg and through the middle. the cool oil will take the path of least resistance flowing through the middle, But also some oil will be going to the cooler. At 180 the center of the H closes and forces all the oil through the cooler. But by that time some of the hot oil will have already been going to the cooler. This helps out in cooler weather.

The downside to this is more fittings ($$) and more places for potential leaks ( I haven't had a problem)

this would require 4 more M22-AN10 fittings and 4 90 deg AN10 fittings in addition to the oil thermostat.

Where before the oil temps would regularly hit 250+ when flogging it in hot weather, now I have not seen more than 220. AND the temps drop much more quickly than before when you get off it. (Your experience may differ with the 2270)

couple pictures of my cooler and the adapter. make sure the adaptor is in snug, mine was loose at last oil change and caused a leak above , simple fix just always recheck at every oil change.

I just did this setup and put a small brace and shield on the bottom by the oil lines for a -6.. Worked well once everything is figured out Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

A bit of an update. I did get the Setrab oil cooler mounted up, the lines fabricated, and the wiring done.

I fabbed a metal shroud around the oil cooler similar to what @gereed75 did, and I have it attached to a basic heater hose to try to draw in cooler air away from the HE's. The shroud worked out pretty well. It's thin gauge zinc plated sheet and I held it together with sheet metal screws. It's attached via the mounting bracket. I also rolled up some of that steel and welded it into a male outlet for something to which the heater hose can attach. I then welded up some mounting brackets underneath the trunk to which the whole assembly is attached. It is amazing how compact this little oil cooler is. It's not much bigger than a man's hand.

For the fan wiring I'm using a relay and a 30-amp inline fuse. The relay is grounded to the thermo switch on the outlet port of the cooler. So at 190 degrees it should start purring.

You may notice in the pics that the outlet side with the thermo switch is a LITTLE close to the half shaft for my liking. Hopefully there's still plenty of clearance, but if not that could end badly

I am terrible about taking pictures of something that's WIP, so I don't have a good shot with everything on the bench, but here are a couple of shots with it mounted up:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I'm also not very good at wiring. I get electrical concepts, and I can usually wire up an electrical system that works well. I'm terrible at making it look clean and tidy, however.

Now my rant: I've been at this point for about 5 days. I ordered an oil filter and a couple of gaskets from Pelican over two weeks ago. Apparently I used the cheapest shipping option (I thought I had plenty of time) which was "SmartPost." "SmartPost" is when FedEx gets it to your regional US Post Office distro center, and they "handle" it from there. Once FedEx hands it over to USPS, you tend to lose visibility of it. I can't get a confirmed delivery time, and it looks like it's bouncing back and forth between MD and VA right now. "SmartPost" is not so smart. You know that feeling when you just want to wrap up a repair or an improvement and try it out, but you're waiting on someone else....

In the meantime, thanks for everyone's help, especially Joe ( @Porschef ) for help and encouragement

USPS has me like:

me too! recently shipped a part to Ca for work and 2day express guaranteed bls bla —2week later it gets delivered and left on step with no signature when it was signature required!!!! oh and they were open, door to business unlocked—— lies about signature etc

That shield you have mounted on the bottom of the cooler is on the Exhaust side of the fan. You may be restricting the exhaust, it would just blow down on the HE's anyway. I don't think you have to worry about heat radiating up onto the fanpack from the HE's

Like the hose ducting. Thought about doing something like Elliot had with a NACA duct in the rocker cover.

Nice looking setup! Looking forward to hearing what type of numbers you end up with. I also wondered if you have any pics of the business end of that heat tubing ? In other words, what type of duct are you using and where do you have it located? Looks great!

Hi Tom - yes, I wrestled over the possible restriction I did hook the fan up directly to the battery to test, and it did seem like a healthy amount of air was still moving in and out with the duct work and shroud, so hopefully I'm ok. There's definitely a better than 0% probability that I have outsmarted myself, however. It's been done before.

I was thinking along the same lines with the NACA duct. Porschef showed me a similar setup that looked pretty slick, much like Elliot's.

I'll post more pics of that once I get there. In the meantime, my parts are bouncing around the US Postal System network. Here's the status they've given me for the last three days, even though I know it's somewhere in my state:

Your package is moving within the USPS network and is on track to be delivered to its final destination. It is currently in transit to the next facility.

On track? On TRACK??? On track for what? You won't give me an ETA so how can it be on track?

Will that 2270 be making an appearance in Stroudsburg Rob?

I hope so, Bob . I’ve got a room reserved. Just need parts and some time to drive it!

Quite interested in your progress. I have the Tangerine setup in the back of my car and am battling high oil temps. I've got it mostly under control through a series of changes but since I cannot bring the temps down below 215 with the fan I'm thinking I need to work better.

BTW, I'm using the Microsquirt to control the fan. Inline temp sensor going to ADC6 and using ALED output to control the fan relay.

Here's where I am now, temps are running around 215 but that's with the fan running constantly. I'd like to be able to bring the temps down to the thermostat-controlled 180 degrees to give me some extra BTU capacity for track lapping and/or very hot days. My lines run along the valve cover, above the HE, so my next test is to sheath the lines in DEI sleeves.

Click to view attachment

Greg, that's pretty clever running it through Microsquirt. I like that.

The only comment I can offer is that my thermo switch is on the outlet side of the oil cooler. In theory the fan won't come on if the cooler is doing its job without the fan. We'll see how that works.

Another way to look at switch placement is that if the oil coming OUT of the cooler sees the switch temp (in my case 212F) then the oil coming out of the engine is already hotter than I wanted. I considered the cooler is doing it’s job If the oil coming out of the engine is below 212F. I didn’t want the oil entering the engine at max temp

Yup, so is mine. And yet I'm still seeing 215F (I was seeing 235-240 before shrouding and a fan.)

If you decide you'd like to log oil temps and use the Microsquirt to control the fan, let me know. It's really not that difficult or expensive; I have $85 in the sensor and inline fitting, and if you're already using a relay then it's a simple wiring and config job.

The advantage for me to do it this way was the ability to log (and real-time view) the temperature data, plus easy adjustment of the fan on/offrange if I chose to change it.

Plus, I already have the Microsquirt! May as well use the damned thing.

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Little things tell a lot about a person's character....like the aircraft grade safety wire install on the CV axle in the background. You sir are a true artisan!

@GregAmy , great idea to wire it through MS. I will add this to my list. I do wave the thermo switch in an AN fitting that looks like yours. But it has basic spade connectors. I have a feeling you are using a different sensor, coolant temp sensor maybe?

Maybe I should consult your blog, the info might be in there...

lol Thank you but...I just realize in looking at that photo that I wired it backwards...DAAAAMIIITT!!! I'm sure beer was involved.

Eh, I guess it does the job. But I'm seriously gonna rewire it tomorrow.


I'm using the Race Technology temperature sensor that includes the pull-up resistor if you buy it with the lead. I use R-T products for the race cars...

https://www.race-technology.com/us/racing/p...ter-temperature

Buy that and you won't have to solder/insert a pull-up resistor on the Microsquirt board. It's just really wire it up and play.

The sensor for R-T is about $60, and I bought the -10AN inline port here:

http://www.improvedracing.com/an-tee-fitti...port-p-882.html

I have the .inc file for the sensor linked in Part 11 here: https://tgadrivel.blogspot.com/2020/06/on-m...-addendums.html

Using the Microsquirt is a bit of a rub-your-tummy thing because the MS doesn't recognize the INC file. But you can use the ADC numbers to allow it to control the fan. PM or email me for a more verbose description. You know where to find me... - GA

Another update:

I got tired of waiting for my order from Pelican. The USPS has sent me updates all weekend that basically show the package is still bouncing back and forth between USPS distro centers in Northern VA. What a joke. So I went to the FLAPS and purchased an STP oil filter. I'll worry about the other pieces when I do another oil change.

So I put the filter on, added the oil, and took it for a test run on a pretty hot day (85 or so). Oil temps peaked around 210 while I was driving, then reached 220 while I idled in a parking lot before coming back to around 210 when I was driving again. All good, I was going to declare success.

And then, I got home. After a short time with engine off to fix another small issue, I restarted and suddenly oil was PISSING out of the oil filter area. Yikes. I removed the filter and measured the rubber seal against the sandwich plate adapter. Should fit. I cranked down and checked AN fittings at the sandwich plate. Fired her back up, and it's still pissing oil . I'm pretty sure it's coming out around the sandwich plate and not on the AN fittings. Anybody have ideas? I guess I could take the sandwich plate off and make sure the seal didn't blow. Or was it wrong to assume the STP filter would / does fit the Setrab adapter?

As I write this Pelican customer support did email me to say they will resend my order via overnight, which as a pretty stand-up thing to do when it wasn't really their fault.

Ugh. Sorry to hear about the setback Rob. I hope everything gets sorted quickly.

Thanks, Bob. Yeah, I got a few things to sort out before I can think about making the trip up to PA

Hmmm....think this could be the issue?

Click to view attachment

Sorry for the dark pic (window in background threw off the lighting). Not sure how it tore. I lubed the seal and torqued to spec

I also used that adapter plate, be careful as well not to over-tighten the fittings going into it, it will crack. ask me how i know.
I used a larger cooler than you did but none of the fancy ducting.
As far as temps, I havent been that hawkish about the actual temp but when i temp gun the sump its around 200 to 210 and to me thats about where I want it to be.
Im not a big believer of keeping oil at 180.
Ill have to dig up and post some pictures of my set up. I also used -12 oil lines.

Alright, apparently I like blowing seals (no jokes, sil vous plait).

Ordered the seal replacement kit from Setrab and it arrived Saturday. Hooked up Sunday morning and took a couple of spins in hot weather. Oil temps weren't as cool as I would like, but then again I still needed to add some oil. Good news, no major leaks.

Took it for another spin today after bringing it up to full oil level, and when oil hit temp of about 180 it started leaking badly again out of the adapter. I was only a mile or two from the house, but I had to add oil and watch the OP idiot light to make it home while dripping badly along the road

Post mortem shows that I blew the seal the same way in the same damn place -- directly across from the hose fittings on the adapter. What gives here??? I was careful not to spin the adapter while torqueing it down. That was what I thought I did last time. Here are my working theories. Input is more than welcome:

1. Still didn't seat the seal correctly on the lip of the oil filter console. I had left the AN10 oil hoses connected to the adapter so I didn't have to tighten them again after putting the adapter on (to avoid any side loading on the seal / adapter), but I thought I was careful. Maybe I torqued it down with the seal not in the exact correct spot. Again.

2. AN10 hoses are putting rotational torque on the adapter, especially if they move around during driving, and that tears the seal. I didn't THINK the hoses were especially tight/kinked as they curved to the adapter, but maybe during driving they shift? These hoses are coming down through the J-tube hole and curving to the adapter place.

3. Oil pressure is blowing it out. I wouldn't think so, and I was careful driving, not getting close to 4K RPM particularly with oil below 140 degrees. I don't have OP gauge, so I don't know.

4. There's a bur somewhere on the console or adapter plate that's cutting the seal. If there is, I can't see or feel it.

Fortunately when I bought the seal kit they sent 2. So I have one left I can put on. But I don't want to try until I have a better idea of root cause. I was ready to buy some different AN10 fittings (e.g., 45 degree bends) to see if that would take pressure off of the hoses/plate, but I'm not sure that's the issue.

Getting up to the NE outing is starting to look sketchy for me...

I tried some destructive testing to see if #2 (or#4) are valid. Took the old seal, rotated it 180 degrees, and installed the adapter. Then I pulled and yanked on the lines trying to get it to spin. No dice. So I'm kind of ruling out #2 as an option.

Then I thought, "well, screw it." I took my remaining seal and carefully installed it. I also installed the oil filter, but perhaps with a little less torque this time. I probably should have waited for more responses here, and perhaps a call back from Setrab USA, but what the heck. If it blows again, it blows.

And that would blow.