Got your text. I think I read at one time Chris Foley has a fixture for locating the suspension console if you end up having to remove it. Short of that I would spend the time and build something you could use to locate it before going too far. The car is progressing nicely.

Great looking workmanship, keep it going.

the things we do for our 50 y/o machines!!

Lots of good work going on here.

Your panel fit and alignment looks at least as good as factory.

All, thank you for the compliment!

All of your build threads have been inspirational and an extremely valuable source of information.

I will be moving on a new dreaded phase of the project, the longs... Hopefully, the level of repair needed will not be as extreme as what you guys had to deal with.

I bought the car 13 years ago when I moved to California from Canada and this was my only means of transportation for many years! A few months after purchasing it and joining the forum, I discovered heavy rust in the jack point area. I did a temporary fix over a couple of weekends with a Brad Mayer repair kit that allowed me to drive and enjoy my car for many years. I think this was the right decision.

Now the time has come to remove the Brad Mayer parts, investigate and properly address the rusted areas.

I am hoping I can achieve the passenger side without removing the rear fender, and using methods shared by Rick and Superhawk. Fingers crossed.

Stay tuned, more to come!

Before I continue I need to take a few step back and investigate a repair the DACO (Dumb Ass Current Owner) did about 13 years ago...

At the time, I had just moved to California from Canada and the 914 was my only mode or transportation (excluding my bicycle)! Therefore I needed a quick fix for both driver and passenger side jack point pyramids that were rusted and had impacted the longs. I bought a used 120V welder on Craigslist and proceeded to make this repair in my driveway (no garage on the rental). I had access to a few very basic tools too.

Anyhow, the Brad Mayer repair panels did the trick and allowed me to enjoy my 914 for about 10 years before I started this now rebuild project.

For the past while I debated weather I should go back and revisit this repair or simply continue as is.

That was until I decided to remove the back portion of the Brad Mayer panel on the right side and discovered this!


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So clearly this will require a thorough investigation that will get pretty deep.


So, although the repair panels were a success as they did what was needed, it is time to go through all of this and fix it the right way.


Step #1, getting the proper dolly for the car. I have no clue how far this will go, and I need something to move this shell around anyway so... After reading many of the rebuild threads here, I decided to make myself a similar copy of the Jigster engineered by @Jeff Hail

With today's steel prices, the 4" x 2" x 1/8 20ft. that Jeff used are about $150 ea. and 2 are needed for this build.

Instead, I went the frugal way and got some used racking beams and used heavy duty casters. Total investment, a whopping $72!

Here are the beams purchased:

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Now to cut these square requires the correct tool that I obviously don't have as I am not a metal fabrication shop...

This is where reading can give you tricks! I got myself a 10" thin abrasive disk with a 5/8" arbor and set it on my wood miter saw. Make sure your disk is rated for the speed of your saw!

Time to do some cutting!

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And here are all the parts cut to length within less that a 1/16" off.

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Time to burn metal Using a laser I set the beams leveled and tacked the 4 parts of the frame. After measuring the diagonals, I was within less than 1/16" and nicely leveled. Time to fully weld this thing!

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Flipped upside down to do the legs and casters.

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For the casters I got lucky as a piece of 1" x 1" tube I had made the perfect spacer for the caster plate. The correct way would have been to have a plate and bolt the casters, but I went the easy way and just welded them on. I doubt I will ever have to replace them anyway...

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Once done I sprayed some left over rattle can paint over the welds after wire brushing the areas.

I am very pleased with the result and can now plan on setting the shell on it and begin the long repair how ever deep I need to go. I know I will be able to make which ever brace will be needed for key reference points such as suspension console. It was a long day but well worth it!

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That should work nicely

Nail That Eric , looks excellent

I like that!

Time to put the tub on the Jigster (Jeff Hail's TM ).

Working alone as usual, so one step at a time. Need to bring the car 25" up (from long lower edge). Using a small 2 ton jack and all sorts of methods... , I slowly raised the car in steps constantly checking how stable it was...

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Once there, I wheeled the dolly delicately going around the jack stands.

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Sometimes you get lucky... The caster went by the rear driver side jack with about 1/16" clearance.

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Almost there, just need a little more height in the front.

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And finally, the tub is now resting on the Jigster and can almost too easily get moved around.

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And at the end of the work day, it can be tucked in its corner, leaving the garage for the daily car.

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So, as mentioned earlier, the car is currently set with Brad Mayer repair panels. I installed those 13 years ago to enjoy my car daily.

This was a nice patch and it definitely served its purpose, but it is now time to revisit the area and properly fix the problem.

I made some braces with 1" square tube and large turnbuckles to minimize the car's movement. I plan on anchoring the tub accordingly on the dolly, but the first part is to assess the situation.

I will begin with the driver side as I am hoping it is in better shape than the passenger's. This way I can somewhat get used to the longitudinal repair work.

Step one, removing the door sill so I can have access to the weld that are on the top.

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I used a 3/4" hole saw and cut around the 10 plug welds on the vertical part of the panel.

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Then the pain of grinding all the various welds around the panel without damaging the original sheet metal... ...Finally, it is off!

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Now, the good eye will notice the jack point area to be somewhat different.
At the time, to reinforce that rusted area, I made a patch with the very limited means I had...

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Well, 13 years later, nothing improved behind it... ...but nothing isn't really worse either...

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Clearly, I will be in need of new metal there, that being said, there are no reproduction of this piece...

I cut out a window allowing me to take some pictures inside.

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Looking towards the front, things don't look too bad. We can see the indent for the emergency brake lever (arrow).

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Now looking towards the rear, I am concerned by the circled area. The rust on the panels seems to be more than just surface...

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So I decided to cut out a little window on the outside surface and discovered this...

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So, I made a larger window...

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This is definitely more than surface rust which means this whole section will need to be replace, inner and outer layer...

Now, when looking at he picture again, the inner side of the long doesn't really seem to be in better shape rust wise. I fear the rust between the corrugated inside inner and the inside outer layer will be the same as what we see in the last picture. This would mean rebuilding the whole long including dealing with the removal of the suspension consoles, and engine mount... And this is the driver side... clearly the passenger will probably not be better...

Not sure how to proceed here... Looking at the suspension console area and the rest of the engine compartment, it would be difficult to even think the level of rust that is inside. This tells me that probably most of the 914s even in decent conditions have a generous amount of rust in those layered area.

The lengths we go to save our 1/2 century entry level sporting machines. Very thorough and keep the energy moving ahead.

Yeah... Spent the night thinking about a strategy to tackle this... I have to say, I did really consider abandoning here and find myself another 914, but I fear a lot of them have this in-between layer rust issues. Anyhow, I am in too deep to stop, and I know I can find the right support here so I will fix this.

Does anyone know if both inner and outer suspension consoles and engine mounts are spot welded to the outer layers of the long or through the outer and inner layers (which would make more sense strength wise)? @nathanxnathan , @bbrock , @bkrantz , @Superhawk996 , @rick 918-s , to name a few of my build threads resources

At this point, I will borrow @nathanxnathan 's nice cross section and lexicon to make sure everyone can follow.

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Just wondering how some of these components could be removed/installed individually or a few at a time.

The more I look at it, it seems this large portion of the inner fender (Outside Outer and Inside Outer) will come out, maybe with the outer suspension console attached (?).

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This will expose the Inside Inner corrugated part. Then making a window in the corrugated part, I could investigate the level of rust in between the Inner long two layers (Inside Inner and Outside Inner). This might save me from removing the inside suspension console and the engine mount. All of these components look very good with original paint still on BTW. Which adds to my concern of the rust going from inside out...

A couple of pictures I quickly took last night. This not a restored car, but far from being a complete rust bucket, yet, it sort of is...

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1st let’s answer your question.

Suspension console is spot welded through 1 layer of steel on the outer long. Here is the picture of mine:
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So what to do with yours? That is a really a tough call. Cutting out the entire long is feasible - that is what I did on the passenger side. Mine was simply roached completely. See the 1st couple pages of my thread in signature. The problem is in the driver side, the complete panels aren’t available from AA or RD like they are for the passenger side. So it would be a TON of fab work to make what can’t be purchased.

In your case, it doesn’t look quite that bad from the photos you’ve posted.

If you can avoid removing the whole long and just patch where necessary, I would. Sure there will be rust between the corrugated inner and the outer but unless it’s completely compromised, I wouldn’t cut it out.

Maybe cut some access windows. Spray in Ospho? Maybe other rust converting / encapsulating paint like Eastwood frame spray or any other converting paint? Treat it as completely as you can with access holes, then weld up the access holes?

What you have is worth saving. Don’t give up. You’re doing a great job!

You are at the phase of OMG - what have I done

Once you wrap your mind around it and start moving forward, you will feel much better.

I applaud you for pulling the Brad Mayer panels. They serve the purpose they were meant - keeping cars on the road. But they are heavy and will be unnecessary when you make the repairs you’re doing. These cars were mean to be Lightweight - no need to be carrying around extra steel plate when you’re done!

Also take a look up in the engine compartment at the top of the longs - you will find access holes there that lead into the top of the long. This is a great access point for Ospho and rust converting paint.

Thank you Superhawk for the pointers. I am going to see Vince now (1 hour away) to see what panels he has in his yard. I know the driver's side isn't available from RD, AA. I have already gotten the inner fender well for the passenger as the rust is poking out fore of the outer suspension point. As for the hell hole, there was a repair done prior to my ownership. I plan on opening it up to see how that looks. I did locate the hole at the top of the long and may get one of those cheap borescope.

Good to know the grafted elements (suspension consoles, engine mount (hopefully)) are only attached to the outer layer. This may come handy to separate parts.

Yeah, I feel like my car is pretty solid (no signs yet of floor rust), but it is clearly affected by rust in the key structural area. The Brad Mayer will not go back on, for sure. But I will reinforce some areas. Inner kit, outer clamshell, GT kit are all options on the table, maybe partial components.

Give my regards to Vince. He provided front bulkhead sheet metal and a tunnel for my project. Would have been hell without his donor metal!

You’re lucky to have him so close!

It is always hard to know when to stop. I mean you could really dissemble the whole car and never find all the rust. I am not upposed to drilling access holes just large enough to slide in the long tube you get with the Eastwood encapsulator and flood the spaces. Some two part epoxy injected in the holes will seal them without welding and burning off the encapsulator. Just a suggestion.

Am I mistaken or is this area in blue the only place the outside long is double walled? I thought it was only double walled in the area of the overlap where the inner fender and the outer long piece butted together? (sleeved)





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* Edit, just found these photos courtesy of Luke M Maybe of some help to you for reference
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Well, it was worth the trip to Vince's. I did pass on the hello on your behalf and all of the World. He mentioned not remembering everyone as he regularly ships parts all over. And yes, it is quite a blessing to have him close by for such projects. Parts are getting a lot harder to find for him due to rarity of the abandoned cars. Also, cars that he might have cut in the past now are kept whole for potential buyers.

Altitude: Those are some very good looking sheet metal components!

That being said, I think I found some good parts for my repair. I was hoping to find a whole piece to replace the outer portion basically including the jack point all the way rear of the suspension console. Instead I got that in two parts and a whole lot more .

Here is today's lot brought home:

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The red parts are actually from the same car but unfortunately was cut in two. The cut matches though so other than it, it is complete.

The jack point on it isn't the greatest but that is OK as I got two other ones too.

Now looking inside the rear part, it is pretty much gray, not rust. This is very encouraging!

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Not sure yet how I will tackle this but I might simply replace the outer with the "new" part as-is, meaning the whole outer two layers and suspension point in one transfer.

With all of the outer removed, it would give me access to the Inside Inner (corrugated). Now that it was established that the spot welds of the inner suspension console isn't through the inner (corrugated) panel, I could remove it by drilling the spot weld and investigate the rust between those layers while leaving all of the engine side as-is.

Once the corrugated removed, I could replace it with the "new" one. This would basically replace 3 of the 4 layers from outside without drilling any of the suspension consoles spot welds.

The plan is starting to take shape. One of the question is; where to cut the Outside Outer on the car? Maybe about 3/4" above the upper line of spot welds, sort of like the RD part that is available for the passenger side?

Another month goes by...

After a trip to Portugal where we enjoyed a lot of wine, especially Port and Pastel de Nata , time to get back to work!

Before tackling any more cutting of the frame, it was time to complete the work on the Jigster (Jeff Hail's TM ).

Using the horizontal and vertical laser, I set the Jigster leveled and made sure the car was not only leveled, but also on the center line of the Jigster. Then I did a bunch of Z axis measurement to see how things were. I was happily surprised to see that everything was within about 1/32"! . This was encouraging despite all of the recent rust findings. I also measure the lower edge of the car's back panel and it was the same on both sides. This has been a concern since seeing the car had been hit in the back.

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Up to this point the car had been resting on wooden 2"x2" under the longs. If I am to start cutting the structure, I need to make sure things are held. Time to bolt the car to the Jigster!

With the car and Jigster now perfectly leveled and centered, I fabricated brackets, then bolted them to the car's front suspension cross member rear mounting point and welded them to a cross beam.

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Then similarly in the back, I made brackets and mounted them to the engine mounts, and with 1/2" threaded rods adjusted them and welded/tightened everything. The car is now well attached to the Jigster, almost ready for some structural work.

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Yes, almost ready because bracing is the next important part! I built these using 1"x1"x1/8" square tubes and 3/4" turnbuckles.

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Now installed on the tub

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Then I decided to add another one on the bottom. Not sure it is needed, but anyhow, it is there...

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Note that all these braces can easily be removed by unscrewing the bolts at each ends. Also, doors are kept on the car and can open or close freely to ensure constant gap monitoring.

To address the rust on the driver's side long, I will need to remove the rear suspension outer console. In order to reinstall it, I need a jig to locate the mounting points.

I prepared a couple of 1/4" plate using the "L" piece that goes in the suspension assembly as a template for my holes.

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Once bolted to the chassis, I built a jig mounted to the Jigster. The cross beam has left-right stoppers, and there are also angle stoppers to the Jigster longitudinal frame as front-back locating point. The cross beam is then clamped to the Jigster.

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To remove the outer suspension point jig, I unscrew the six suspension bolts, Remove the large clamps, slide the cross beam with jig backward, tilt backwards, and remove. Important to note that I will not remove both outer suspension point simultaneously (driver's and passenger's side) so at least one of the two suspension mounting point will be on the car when one is removed as an added reference.



Next, I started dismantling the donor part I recently got from Vince. Anyone who has dealt with these rear suspension factory braces know how much of a pain they are to remove...

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As if all of the perimeter welds weren't enough on the longer brace, there are 2 large plug welds to deal with...

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After spending about 3 hours of delicate grinding and drilling, I was able to separate the inner and outer portion of donor driver side rear longitudinal.

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I am very happy with the condition of these old parts! All but healthy and solid metal!

More pictures in next post...

Not sure why this picture is repeated below...

More pictures

Here is the back side of the outer long. This will be a nice replacement to the rusty area of my car.

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For those who aren't aware, unfortunately, the driver side of this part isn't available as a replacement part from Restoration Design of other vendors. So, I am very pleased with this finding!

Left is driver side, right is new RD passenger side.

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Looking at the port holes, I was able to take a few pictures to show the inside of the suspension console. These can be quite rusty at times, but this one is clearly in excellent shape. I will probably flush it with Ospho and spray some Eastwood chassis protection in it.

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As a reminder, the reason I am going through all of this is to fix this...

From the outside, the metal on that elbow seems pretty solid.

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But once I looked into it, I found this crusty rusted and soft metal that I was able to punch through with a screwdriver near the suspension console area. That is a key structural area of our cars!

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Holy toledo. You are going to town on that.
Kevin

Nice work! Are you going to coat the inside of your patch panels with something?

This is great progress, thank you for documenting

Nice surgical work. Keep going!

The quest for solid metal continues...

Clearly, both outer layers of the long from the jack point to the outer suspension console are compromised and will have to be removed.

So here is the plan marked in black. The inner fender will be cut above its junction to the inner layers. Spot welds will be drilled to free the outer layer from the inner.





The cut on the back end of the outer long will be done close to the suspension console. The plan will be to use the

Will it ever end?

Keep up the good work, there must be and end to it

Right? When will I get to solid metal??

I accidentally added the previous post as I was composing...

Back to the cut of this large piece...

The cut on the back end of the outer long (right in the picture) will be done close to the suspension console. The spot welds joining the tail end (V shaped) of the inner layer will be drilled. The plan will be to install the new piece using the inner layer as an overlap.

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Here we can see the whole piece freed up. Notice the inner layer (V) extending towards the back. The new piece will be installed exactly like that and the inner layer will be plug welded to the outer layer creating a nice staggered ovelaping joint.

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And here is the removed piece. Although the heavily rusted area circled seems small, I am convinced there is a lot more hiding. Did I remove too much material? Could this have been repaired without creating this opening? Maybe, but the outer suspension console would have needed to come out anyway. The benefit of removing the whole panel will be to inspect more easily.

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First, let's make a peek hole to see what color is the metal behind... I am definitely liking that nice primer gray color in the hole!

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But there are other areas that aren't looking that great...

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These bumps are always suspicious to me... Clearly rust has pushed the metal up in that area. Investigation will be needed.

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Time to chisel this weak metal off and see what is still good...

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That led to finding weak spots also in the outside inner layer of the long. Again, in order to fully assess the situation, I need to remove more metal. That triangle with the donut will have to come off...

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Out it goes... This part will be straightened and reinstalled after the long has been repaired.

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Ah!!! Rust, rust, and more rust...

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In the end, I removed the whole lower half of the inside inner layer (contoured in yellow), including the lower seat belt anchoring point. Notice the rust hole just behind it... While poking with the screwdriver, it easily went through... I am holding the last piece removed in my hand. All of this was progressively done. But at this point, I do believe the deep rust is ending and the good metal is finally there. I will treat the surface rust and the metal should be sound.

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Next step will be to cut at the red line and rebuild the inside outer layer, then add the inside inner layer. Removing that red section will also means detaching that area of the floor, and the flanged lower firewall beam inner and outer panels. More fun to come!

AT LAST, good metal

Like finding water in the desert (not really)

Next step, cleaning up the surface rust in the upper long.

So this is the situation now.

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More specifically, I am looking at treating the surface rust in the upward portion to start with. Here! (Note that this picture was taken before I removed the Inside-inner lower portion shown in previous post.)

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Inspired by @"Alain V." , I found online people using powdered citric acid mixed with water to dissolve rust. Looking at the amount of fluid I will need to soak some of these large parts, I decided to try it out! Dissolve 2 cups of citric acid with water in a medium pan at medium heat. On the side, fill a tote with 3-4 gallons of water. When powder is dissolved, carefully poor concentrated acid into tote. Now you have a cheap mix of rust dissolving solution.

After trying overnight with a piece I had, I was pleasantly surprise of how efficient this was. Then I used Alain's setup, got a larger tote, a $20 submersible pump, a hose, and a sprinkler head I had laying around.

This is the setup, spraying the citric acid in the long. I started from the top and gradually moved the spray head down.

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As you can see the upper portion of the long is now nice and gray, 50 year old metal renewed! Arrow is pointing at the fan spray pattern.

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And a last one because this is so cool!

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After a few days of progressively moving the spray head from top to bottom, I used another tote with a mix of water and baking soda and flushed the whole area for 1/2 day to neutralize the acid. @Mayne , Next, I plan on using some Eastwood rust encapsulation that I will brush inside. Then, after having closed back the long, I will use the Eastwood inner chassis spray with the flexible hose and nozzle, or spray cavity wax.


With all of this done, we can now see what was hiding below these bumps (tip of the iceberg) I had noticed a while back. Here is the refresher picture of these bumps:

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And here is what was under that bumpy inner layer...

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So I now know what will need to be cut out of the lower part of the inner long. Time to look at the donor parts I actually have to see what can be used.

First step, dismantling the factory assembly by drilling every spot weld and separating every part...

After splitting the outer from the inner of the donor parts a few weeks ago, here is what have. To assess if the metal both of the inside-inner and inside-outer can be used, I need to dismantle this whole assembly. So the engine mount needs to come off and the inside suspension console too. Hopefully I can achieve this while saving these parts. I don't think I will need them, but maybe someone here will.

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And here is the engine mount removed. There is some rust but it is too early to fully assess at this point. As you can see the separation work of the inner suspension console is well on its way.

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And here is the inner long free of all attached components. I am interested in this portion circled in red.

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That being said, I am actually interested in both the outside-inner (seen here ^^^) and the inside-inner (seen below). So I will need to separate the two onion layers... Here we can see what I am looking at using. Fingers crossed for the metal to be in good shape at the interface. As we can see I have stated to separate the two layers.

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More to come, stay tuned!

Something really satisfying about dissolving rust and finding clean metal. Looks like you are making good progress.

Very cool process

Some progress to share:

Before continuing the previous post with the preparation of the repair piece for the outside-inner lower elbow area, I went on and actually cut out the bad metal, to really establish the repair piece I will need.

Here is the situation: The black sharpie line (circled in red) is where I have decided to cut and remove material.

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There are a few things to consider when removing this piece. First the floor is spot welded on the underside of it, then the two vertical walls of the firewall are flanged basically on either side of the oval port. Then, at the right end, I am actually cutting half way into where the engine mount is attached (embossment). I chose this location for a couple of reasons;
1- I wanted to see the engine mount metal behind it,
2- The engine mount will serve as overlapping layer.

Based on what I have seen in removing the engine mount on my donor part, there is actually a gap between the engine mount and the embossment in the Outside-inner long metal. The plan is to add a metal layer to do an overlap on that joint. Plus the engine mount itself is an overlap.


To preserve the various metal joining to the metal I am removing, I will be cutting and grinding it away, keeping the flanges intact and ready to receive the repair piece. Here is the beginning of the process on the left side:

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And here is that metal removed:

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Closer view where we can see the two firewall flanges, the lower half of the engine mount (right end), obviously the floor, and the flange of the e-brake cable guide in the cabin. All of these flanges are nice and solid and will be the welding surface as I plug weld the repair piece in (minimizing upside down welds).

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Now, time to prepare the repair piece.


As show, in the last post, I need to dismantle the various sections of repair parts I have, assess their condition, and make a repair piece. The donor long I got was cut to the right of the jack post, basically behind the firewall. Therefore, the repair piece will have a vertical weld roughly in the middle.


Here is the rear half of the doubled layered repair piece:

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Since I will need both inner and outer layers, I had to drill all the spot welds to separate them. This works well, but unfortunately leaves one of the two pieces look like swiss cheese. We'll look into that later.

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Overall, these two parts are pretty rust free and I am confident can be used as-is after getting de-rusted in citric acid.


Now looking at the front half donor parts, same process; drill the spot weld to separate the two layers.

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Unfortunately, these are not as good as the rear half's. Let's see what de-rusting will reveal...

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After a couple of days soaking in citric acid, here is the result. The rear end of it is a little pitted but not major, The front end (with the hole for the safety belt) is compromised in the fold and will need to be addressed (circled in red).

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Most of the rest of the donor long is heavily pitted in the bottom fold except a section that I was able to cut out of. I will use this section below (black sharpie) for the repair piece.
What I am after is having the step detail of the lower part where the floor attaches to the long (red arrow).

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So here is the plan; joining the retrieved good part on the right to the left half with the oval hole. Not only will this replace the heavily pitted metal, it will also take care of a lot of swiss cheese. The hole for the seatbelt will be done before joining the two.

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To be continued in next post...

After carefully trimming both piece, I set them in this contraption to join them straight. Hole for the seat belt in there now.

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And the back side. Notice the copper plate to absorb the heat. A similar plate lies under the bottom surface too.

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Now the two pieces are one. We can see some of the pitting on the right piece, not ideal, but not too bad. I may try to reinforce this. Here i am plugging some of the holes created by the spot weld drilling.

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Moving on to attaching the rear section of the repair piece. Making progress!

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Finally, three becomes one!

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And after a lot of back and forth trimming, the part is now 95% ready to be installed.

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Fit is almost perfect, just a little bit of fine tuning and it will be ready.

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More to come soon!

You are kickin a and taking names!!!!!

Super nice job you're doing. Great fit-up on those panels.

Prior to welding new sections in place, have you been double checking the alignment of your pickup points? Looking at your jig, it appears somewhat light gauge. A quick double check will let you know all is good before new metal is secured in place.

You don't have to ask why ...........

Although it looks like I am ready to weld this in, I am not there yet. Yes I will measure everything and also temporarily reinstall the fender to check door gap.

Each little step is at slow pace where subsequent steps planning are part of every move.

Think think think, act, trying to minimize the “ah darn” moments.

Thank you! Coming from you I appreciate the compliment.

The file is one of my preferred tool…

Taking time to get the perfect fit is key to quality work. Well done

Antoine

@TRS63 Antoine is far more concise but if I may:
HEY EVERYONE! The above bolded words are what make the ALL difference between an OK job (or worse) and the quality result @Montreal914 is achieving. Ask me how I know! Sooooo many times I've wanted to make progress and had a "that's going to be fine, it's close enough" attitude, only to complete a step and be disappointed in what I'd just done. Then I was left building off of what wasn't as good as I'd hoped.
So I want to give a big to @Montreal914 for making this point. It's the one thing that makes the biggest difference for me. If I don't take the time to fit the material properly, I won't get the result I want. If I can't get into a (reasonably) relaxed, comfortable position, the weld isn't going to be as good.
People poke at me for doing things over and over again and this is one reason why I was doing that: my process wasn't working.
I just redid (!) the rear panel on my LS car and was sending in-process pics to @buddyv Robert. He commented about how fast I was able to crank out the project. It was because I spent a lot of up-front time thinking, planing, wondering, checking. He saw the execution, not the "pre-work". In the past I'd have just gone for it. Fun maybe, but not effective.

That said, I have a LOT left to learn - and always will. But I'm telling you, our friend here has nailed what I've come to believe are THE most important skills: patience and planning.

Great job and thanks for calling out your model for success!
OK, rant over. Back into the shop!

@tygaboy WOW!

I guess I have self set my bar high now... I will have to keep it up because the pros are watching and will give me bad review if I don't...

But seriously, I wouldn't be able to tackle any of this without the high quality build threads and the detailed information we can find here. Thank you all for this generous boost, now I am fired up to get busy on the build!

@Montreal914 - One last comment about how critical I've found the patience and attitude thing and I'll stop clogging your thread. You may have seen my post about visiting the Singer factory last year:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7&hl=Singer

For a more complete summary, read post # 8 but for thouse without patience here's the short version, one I try and live by, about acceptable variance:
If Singer is +/- ZERO, going forward at the Red Barn, it's +/- less than yesterday!