2 flares. is 600 bucks inreasonable????

cut out/weld in new/grind smooth - 80 percent of the way there (body shop does the rest)

guy says it takes a day to a day and a half to do it...

Did you get yours on yesterday???

Nope. It's nut unreasonable either You should figure on paying $50.00 + per hour for someone competent. I've never done a set but I could see it taking up to 2 days. Do the flares have a 90 deg. flange stamped in them to match up to the body,or do they just run into it at a 90?

these are flared qtrs that xitspd paid to have done on his racecar - then he cut them off and gave them to me when he went to mongo FG flares


600 isnt unreasonable.... i have 3 weeks to plan

no lip. just metal to metal buttweld

A-ron must be doing major bidness on the street corner.....

QUOTE (Manfred Z @ Jul 17 2005, 02:19 PM)

A-ron must be doing major bidness on the street corner.....

OR Bidness// OR even Farm animal insemenation

I sent you a PM with the number of a guy who will come to your house to do the job. He's the same guy that did matts car.
Cheers, Elliot

Sheeeze, I thought A-aron Admin was the resident expert on "buttwelding".

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Jul 17 2005, 04:22 PM)

I sent you a PM with the number of a guy who will come to your house to do the job. He's the same guy that did matts car. Cheers, Elliot

Thats the guy who quoted 600 bucks

QUOTE (MattR @ Jul 17 2005, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Jul 17 2005, 04:22 PM) I sent you a PM with the number of a guy who will come to your house to do the job.  He's the same guy that did matts car.         Cheers,  Elliot Thats the guy who quoted 600 bucks

And the same guy who came over to my house yesterday

Thanks again for the contact Matt

Aaron.... 'DO IT'

Beach boys racing quoted me $1600.00 for all four.
$300.00 a piece is a good deal.

I need to get my car done to.
I'm doing the front and the rear with the AA flairs.

Maybe we can get a group rate??

Just received a quote from a local body shop: $1,500 per corner labor!!!

$600 = Good Price

there goes an 80 hour paycheck....

ill call him and have it set up....

not your typical GT flares...these are hand rolled metal quarters that someone paid big money to have done....just to have them cut off and run huge FG flares....


alot of money just to run 8's and 225's

but i like it

I will do it for $500+beer.

QUOTE (914RS @ Jul 20 2005, 02:02 PM)

I will do it for $500+beer.

this guy is an old dude....torch master.... IIRC oxy/acet

thanks for the offer
you would ( i assume ) tig them?

That will warp the shit out of the panel.

Use a TIG or MIG like this:

he said he doesnt mig.....(because it is sloppy and ugly)
and he saud TIG was too hot i believe....

so he "stitch" welds with a torch....

big name in the 356/550/911 resto groups

Hehe, I tried welding sheet metal with a torch once.. it's what made me go buy a mig. I know there are people who can gas weld sheet metal, and supposedly it's the best way.. but I can't do it. Mig doesn't have to be sloppy and ugly. I've gotten pretty good at it, and with minimal touch up it can be just fine. And it's soooooo much faster! For $600 you can buy a mig...

So Aaron,
Did you call him and set it up?

When he was here, he said he did alot of flares.

QUOTE (Grimstead @ Jul 20 2005, 02:24 PM)

So Aaron, Did you call him and set it up? When he was here, he said he did alot of flares.

havent called and set it up yet....

there is a dissenting opinion on torch welding....

and bill - did he say it was a FLAT 600? or was that an estimate (ie it takes 15 hours instead of 12 etc....)

I don't want to be the single voice against torch welding here. I've welded sheet metal with all three methods and the torch is the worst on the metal and least effecient. Of the three methods, torch welding will heat more surrounding metal than the other two, but all methods have to reach the 2700 degree melting point of steel.

The RS was accomplished entirely with a TIG, but now that I have a MIG, I would likey use it for the flares. I'm making nice welds with the MIG and you could too.

Two pictures attached from Liz's car. Welded up the bumper shock holes (one before smoothing and one after).

I am not saying that this guy isn't a serious expert with a torch or that he can't do a great job on your flares. I am saying that I wouldn't do it that way and that most expereinced welders can do the job very nicely with a quality MIG machine (not flux core).

oops, pictures. Before smoothing:

after smoothing:

so... anyone who knows what they are doing with a mig could help me with this right?

joe sharp has the cool body panel clamps.....

Since we're tlking flares, I recently bought a FG set and they came without the 90 degree lip. How the hell do you glass them in without the lip? Cut the fender a bunch of times and bend up tabs?

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 20 2005, 03:27 PM)

so... anyone who knows what they are doing with a mig could help me with this right? joe sharp has the cool body panel clamps.....

You need a good gas shielded MIG, but if the welder is skilled, yes.

I would be willing to do if for you personally, if you get everything ready and can wait for me to come in town.

Two key pictures to get you started.

#1: Position the flare on the car. Notice the fender arch is slightly larger than the stock arch underneath. Split the difference to center the flare over the opening. DO NOT rely on fiberglass rockers, bumpers or anything else to position the flare on the car. Center the flare on the opening by eye. Yes, it's subjective, but it's the most accurate way (and far more accurate than fiberglass rockers, etc.):

these arent GT flares.... theyre flared original 914 qtr panel pieces....cut off of a car....

flared lip/fender to fit 8" whels and 225 tires.... very subtle.... stock lip in place

#2: Screw the flare down tightly to the old fender before you scribe the line. Then scribe, remove the flare and cut very carefully with a jig saw. Take your time, it's worth it.

Then find someone with a good welder and have them do it, or wait for me. If you wait for me, it'll be free (except beer). I was kidding about the $500, although that is what I would charge in my shop.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 20 2005, 03:44 PM)

these arent GT flares.... theyre flared original 914 qtr panel pieces....cut off of a car.... flared lip/fender to fit 8" whels and 225 tires.... very subtle.... stock lip in place

Instructions remain the same.

I don't know how well it would work out as for logistics but if we could get everybody here I could arrange the shop. We have a gas shielded mig and a lift if it would help...

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 20 2005, 02:26 PM)

QUOTE (Grimstead @ Jul 20 2005, 02:24 PM) So Aaron, Did you call him and set it up? When he was here, he said he did alot of flares. havent called and set it up yet.... there is a dissenting opinion on torch welding.... and bill - did he say it was a FLAT 600? or was that an estimate (ie it takes 15 hours instead of 12 etc....)

From what I remeber, he said 600 dollars for the job. But by everything else he said during the day was that charged $50hr no matter what kind of car he's working on. If I was to guess, I would say he meant his $600 was a estimite but by seeing how well he worked I think it would work out in your favor.
I hope this helps?

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 20 2005, 02:26 PM)

havent called and set it up yet.... there is a dissenting opinion on torch welding....

John Kelly says here he prefers torch to MIG:

QUOTE

Gas welding is my first choice because the metal stays fairly soft and workable, and metal-finishing is easier (and more quiet). Mig welding work-hardens the metal and seems to shrink the weld area excessively. Gas welding also shrinks (heat shrinks); however, the metal is still workable with hammer & dolly, whereas a mig-welded panel is a little more difficult to work.

QUOTE (914RS @ Jul 20 2005, 04:45 PM)

If you wait for me, it'll be free (except beer).

When will 'rent-a-joe' be in Kansas City the next time?


Sounds like a good deal Aaron.

QUOTE (Reiche @ Jul 20 2005, 06:22 PM)

John Kelly says here he prefers torch to MIG

I will certainly not argue with Mr. Kelly, who is clearly a master metal worker.

I will say, however, that if you use a torch on sheet metal, you will need it to be workable, because you're going to HAVE to work it.

Not saying that the MIG welded panel won't require some work, but torch welding sheet tends to warp the crap out of it due to the excessive heating of the surrounding area.

With the MIG, the technique starts with tacking many places and then stitching in small increments to keep the heat down and warpage to a minimum.

I think Aaron wants to simply attach flares, not weld sections that will require future stretching and molding.

I am good enough with gas to do brass repairs, I never knew it was a suitable way to do flares!

Oh my goodness, I am a welder!



M

QUOTE (Verruckt @ Jul 20 2005, 06:35 PM)

QUOTE (914RS @ Jul 20 2005, 04:45 PM) If you wait for me, it'll be free (except beer). When will 'rent-a-joe' be in Kansas City the next time? Sounds like a good deal Aaron.

Sorry, I don't fly to MCI.

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Jul 17 2005, 04:22 PM)

I sent you a PM with the number of a guy who will come to your house to do the job.  He's the same guy that did matts car.         Cheers,  Elliot

Elliot,

What's the secret, who's this 'guy'?. Maybe some of us can
utilize him too.

QUOTE (914RS @ Jul 20 2005, 06:55 PM)

I think Aaron wants to simply attach flares, not weld sections that will require future stretching and molding.

I have no personal experience welding, other than a few scrap pieces trying to learn, so I have no opinion worth quoting. Interestingly, in the shop I worked in, 356s got the gas treatment, pretty much everything else was MIGed.

John's side-by-side weld comparison shows the heat-affected zones for both methods and what is required to clean them up afterwards. He admits that gas is harder to weld with, but is his preference. MIG away, if it works for you. I was just implying that if the old guy can torch them for $600 it sounds like he may have good reasons to use gas over MIG.

Experience required to get good welds (IMHO):

GAS:
|------------------------------------------------|
MIG:
|-----------|
TIG:
|---------------------------------|

These values are subjective of course.

Basically, anyone who has enough experience can use anything. But you need lots more experience with GAS than with MIG. If I were in your situation I'd arrange to come by one of his current projects and see how it looks.

I weld them on using MIG. I prefer MIG as I believe that it will yield a cleaner weld with less impurities as the weld is created inside the shielding gas (which keeps the normal oxydation from occuring while the metal is liquid).

Just my Opinion.

Front Flare MIG welded on:

Pay for the gas and the wire....you can come up here I'll show ya how to do it.....

I have a 110 argon gas wire fed unit....

QUOTE (Manfred Z @ Jul 20 2005, 08:50 PM)

Pay for the gas and the wire....you can come up here I'll show ya how to do it..... I have a 110 argon gas wire fed unit....

i dont want wavy davy panels....and i know id fuck it up.....

thats why i want to emply a master...like joe.....

That's why you use the shielding gas.....ain't rocket science......ya go slow and grind the welds.....and the fuck ups.....but hey it's yer money knumb nutz.....

Z is right Aaron. Go up and take a class. You may decide to do it yourself.

Like I said before, I find it hard to believe that no body in your area has the welding skills to do this job.

No matter what you do, the panel will require some body work after welding.

Let's have a Aarons flare installation B-B-Q at Z's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd be down for that. I'd love to be able to do my own flares.

QUOTE (McMark @ Jul 20 2005, 07:22 PM)

Experience required to get good welds (IMHO): GAS: |------------------------------------------------| MIG: |-----------| TIG: |---------------------------------| These values are subjective of course. Basically, anyone who has enough experience can use anything. But you need lots more experience with GAS than with MIG. If I were in your situation I'd arrange to come by one of his current projects and see how it looks.

Mark,

That's probably a good accessment. Though not auto bodywork, I have welded a lot of sheetmetal and must admit I prefer oxy/acetylene. You can actually stitch weld quite nicely, and the control over what you're doing is better, IMO. Down side is the amount of oxidization resulting from no shielding gas. I'm not crazy with the results I get with TIG welding sheetmetal bodywork, but I admit to having less experience in that regard. MIG is a lot more user friendly to the lesser experienced. I believe welding training should begin with a oxy/acet torch........after that, you can weld just about anything.

Andy