Planning on going to Europe while we still have a little bit of money left before the wife starts her new job (100% commision based which scares the living $hit out of me...)

anyways.....

What would be the ideal way to see/do as much as possible in these two weeks?

A trip to the Porsche Factory is a must on my list....do I have to make reservations?

Am I asking too much to visit more than 2 or 3 countries while over there?

On the list for sure...England, Germany and Italy

They are all within 100 miles of each other... its like driving thru the midwest. Every few hours your in a different country.

Think: train.


B

Think Rent a exotic..

Go rent yourself a F40 for a week, only 3k!!

Seriously, you should rent a P-car or a sportscar of your choice.. hit the autobaun, take a long drive.. bring a digital camera with lots of memory cards.. then share the experience with us!!

If your in Italy the big exoctic manufacturers are all pretty close to each other.

Maserati is in Modena, Lamborghini’s factory is in Bologna and Ferarri in Maranello. Tours are limited and typically not open to general public, but Ferrri has a cool Museum. When I was outside the Ferrari factory an Enzo prototype flew by me - I was quick on the draw and got one of the early pictures of this car back in 2002.

Great mountain roads just outside Maranello all the way to the Italian coast. I chased a Lotus Elise in my rented 5 speed Opel Corsa down the mountians from Abatone to Maranello. A drive my wife wont ever let me forget!

Have a great time! I lover italy. The Tuscany region of Italy is a great place to spend time. Great hill towns outstanding food and wonderful people.

I'll second the train idea. I would suggest buying your train tickets in advance if you know your schedule.
I would think that 2-3 countries in a two week period would be about right. We tried to spend at least 4 days in each city. You should allow at least one day each for arriving/departing to deal with jet lag and to wind down before the ride home.
Try looking at the country's/city's online sites, and frommers.com to get a few ideas. You should be able to find some useful information about public transportation, events, sights, and online maps that will give you a good start.

I think Mike is a lot like Chevy Chase in "Vacation" He will stand at Stonehendge for about 3 minutes before it is time to go...

Everybody tried to get me to visit the crown jewels in London... BFD (big f-ing deal).. who cares.. show me the hot rod Porsche shops.

Go visit Ruf Mikey... piss on all the cool sites.. LOL


B

Have made 4 trips to europe, Rent a car, if you have a change of plans you won't be stuck on a train. What countries you visit your need a couple of maps for each one. I stayed in B&B's in England , France Belguim, they were great. My trips were centered around Military History, but in 98 made Lemans, at the time there was a 24hr motorcycle race going on, and Brandshatch , 2001 Spa and there was a porsche event going on. Europe is fun and never had any trouble.

rent a porsche and get on the autobahn. you won't regret it

just remember, the left lane is for going fast only!
take a good look in yer rearmirror before you change lanes and never ever try to pass on the right.


oh, and one more thing, stoplights are always BEFORE you hit the intersection.
so drive all the way up to the stoplight.

Andy

I don't think you 'murricans need to make reservations for a factory tour, but I heard they changed quite a bit on tour-planning, so better be safe than sorry...

This is the phone# you should call for the factory tour:
(+49)7119115384

Here's info for a hotel in downtown Stuttgart:
Hotel Dieter. In de Brennerstr. (+49) 7112599379.
60 euro a night, ex. breakfast (better to have breakfast in town)
(I haven't been to this hotel myself, so don't blame me if it's crappy )

Or ask the people at Porsche for hotel recommendations.
There is a nice hotel at walking distance from the factory

When you're there and if the tour doesn't include it, don't forget to visit Werk 1 (across the road), this is the old factory building where you'll find the exclusive department and the service department for "special customers" (where they service and restore all the rare cars).
If they give you a hard time at the gate, tell them that you are there for "Ersatzteile" (replacement parts)

If you go to Stuttgart, you could also visit the Mercedes museum in Untertürkheim (it's really close)
You could also visit:
Gemballa in Leonberg. Mollenbachstr 17
Techart in Leonberg Röntgenstr 47
(Leonberg is about 10 miles from Stuttgart)

Try contacting Ruf as well.
I've never been there myself, but I hear they're nice to visitors.

If you have an idea when, let me know and I will see if there are any big events that would be fun.

You might also like to drive up to Gmund, where it all started. The old factory there is now a private musuem. The drive up there is supposed to be very nice (and it is the road that Porsche used as their "test track")

Lemme know if I can help you out on anything...

cheers,

Jeroen
ps A stop in the Netherlands is mandatory ofcourse

I've made 3 trips to Europe so far - hoping to go back again next year. I've been to Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, France. We've almost always had more than just 2 so we've driven. This has also worked well for us because we've wanted to go to small towns to visit places from our family history in Netherlands.

If I was going for 2 weeks, with just 2 of us, I'd get a train pass for the countries that I want to visit. I'd visit London and Paris on the way to Stuttgart. Even with 2 weeks, you'll be hard pressed to do much more and do any justice to any of it. I can't speak for London, but Paris is just made for walking. We stay at the Etap hotel out by Vincennes, then ride the metro in to the city center for the day. Everything you want to see is basically in the center of any European city.

Of course if you take the train, you miss the experience of driving in Europe. (I love driving in Europe.) Driving in big cities like Paris is crazy, not because of the traffic, but because you probably don't know where you are going. In addition, mass transit is so good and parking so difficult that you are nuts to drive in a big city.

A good compromise is to fly to London, take the train to Paris, then rent a car for the drive to Stuttgart. You get the convenience of watching the landscape go by where it makes sense (London to Paris), but also the convenience of a car which allows you to leave when you want instead of when the train leaves. (BTW, European trains are almost never late so don't figure you can slide into the station a couple of minutes late & still make your train.)

Mostly, go with an open mind and learn a little bit about the culture before you go so that you can not make a fool of yourself. I recommend reading Rick Steves' books so that you can learn how to not come across as a "stupid American tourist" that the locals refuse to talk to. Have fun!

I've probably spent a combined total of 2 years in Europe over the last 18 years. My favorite places are Rome and Paris. Rome/The Vatican is just incredible. For a two week trip I'd limit myself to 2-3 cities. Personally, I like to get to know a place a little. Leisurely lunches at a great cafe in Paris is much more fun to me that treking from touristy spot to touristy spot.

Müller, start pronouncing your last name right and no one (at least in germany) will think you're a "stupid American tourist".

haha, just tell them you came back to take over the world!!!

yepp, soon, the dancing banana will rule the world!

Here's some suggestions...

Fly US > London
The subways in London are great. They'll get you within walking distance of everything.
Places outside of downtown London to go visit are Greenwich Village and Camden Market
Do some of the tourist traps too. If you haven't been there before, you'll like them
Hotels are expensive and crappy, and so is the food, so don't say I didn't warn ya
No chance of getting drunk, cause the bars close at 11...

Fly from London to Amsterdam. It's only a 20 minute flight (you'll be hanging at the airport longer than you are actually flying).
I've seen oneway flights for as little as $40

We can pick you up from the airport and go visit Amsterdam (or you can take the train from the airport to downtown Amsterdam and go by yourselves)

Take the train to Paris. It's about a 4 to 5 hour ride.
In Paris you're on your own... dunno jack shit about Paris (nor do I care to )

Rent a car and drive to Stuttgart. It's about 400 miles, and you'll enjoy the ride.
You'll be able to make good progress on the Autobahn.
Make sure you read up on european road-regulations, 'cause our "rules of engagement" are quite a bit different from yours

From Stuttgart, you can head down south to Italy. It's about 750 miles to Rome.
You could do a little detour to Gmund, just across the Austrian border.
Either way, make sure you get off the highway, for some very nice "canyon carving"
You'll enjoy the roads/scenery for sure.

Can't tell you much about Itally, cause I've never been there myself, but friends tell me it's nice and the people are friendly.

Try to fly from Italy back to the US

cheers,

Jeroen

Mike,

Visit the south coast when you're in England.

If you get 914 withdrawl symptoms you can help me adjust my webers! Then you'll need to take it for a drive to make sure it goes OK.

Mike

When are you going to Europe? There is the 914 International event in France in September and there is also a big Porsche Club (GB) meet at the end of August in Oxford, England.

Adam

Hey Adam (abm914),

Where is Surrey are you? I was born there and grew up on Epsom Downs - my Dad still lives there.

I was back there in April and then went onto Nurburgring - now theres somewhere for you to go Mike and see some REALLY flash cars. (PS: Borrow Jeroen's 911 and do a few laps )

I feel you need to decide what you want to achieve up front - a taste of each country? They vary so much from place to place. Or scenery? Mountains (the Alps are spectacular) or Sea (Monaco and the South Coast of France). Try cities - London, Paris and Amsterdam. Food - avoid London, go to small French towns, try the savoury pancakes in the Netherlands.

and on and on and on....

Richard

Car rental???

Is it expensive? Can you take a car rented in X-country and drive it into z-country?

We plan on going to Europe the second week of Sept. (leave the US around the 6th or so)

Dunno if that's a problem... Try the bigger car-renters like Herz and what-not

cheers,

Jeroen

drink all that good beer and toss on some lieder hosen.

i'm trying to picture Müller in lerderhosen

On second thought, just drink the beer.

mike

my wife is a swiss national [the infamous miss mari ] and my vote would be to pass on england and hit italy germany and switzerland .you can use the fantastic trains or rent a car
we rented a audi a4 last trip and after a week took the car back .
all the comments about the food in italy are accurate and the way that the swiss and italian borders are handled make transition very easy .
ii would tend to settle in on area as a base and travle from there
also inquire with the locals about houses that rent rooms to save on accomadations
making friends with the locals and attempting to blend by using the local language no mater how bad your use of said lang . will by you a lot of mileage
the last time we were in switzerland we bought a total of 13 meals in a 3 week period just by making friends with the locs and developing street cred by always bringing a bottle of wine or some beer
im totaly envious , i wont get a vacation untill i do the dirt nap thing
have much fun

jt

ps mikey

the pay deal for your wife wont be a problem as long as she is self motivated
i operate on 100% incentive pay and have doubled the size of my checks each quarter for 2 straight years
you have to fight for a good contract and sometimes put in a lot of time ,no different than owniing your own shop
i sold my biz to go to work for the people i work for now
at the time of sale we were doing mid 6 figures and the pay i was offered to join forces was about one half of what i was earning
i now net over twice that amount
still scary at the start though

have fun on vacation

jt

Car rental is not really that bad. We've always make the arrangements in the U.S. so all we had to do is pick up the car and go. We've picked up in Paris and dropped off in Amsterdam. There's a fee, but it's cheaper than going back just to return the car.

You can drive from country x to country y, but there are some restrictions. A lot of companies won't let you drive to Italy or certain eastern European countries. It's not that you can't rent cars in those countries, you just can't rent elsewhere and drive to those countries.

Goto Monte Carlo. You will not regret that. The bus route takes you through the track layout, but in reverse. Fun to see the bus hit the apex at the hairpin. haha.

What is it you want? A holiday or a business trip? I get tired form reading all the suggestions alone...

My advice would be to LIMIT your plans. The biggest mistake you Americans make is "to do Europe in a fortnight"! That way you miss out on everything and don't RELAX.
I go to Tuscany myself the last two week of august with, you guessed it, the 914. Should you plan on going there that period, I might be able to meet you. We can talk 914 stuff or whatever. And have a beer (or two). Just let me know.

Definately goto London. It's great there. And you must see Stone Henge. Then take the TGV/Eurostar to Paris to hang out there. Goto the Luvre. (sp?). I really do recomend Monte Carlo for sure. Take the train to Nice, hang out there, then take the train to Monte Carlo, which is like a 10 minute ride. There are soooo many Ferrari flags there, haha.

i have to agree with Anton.
don't try to squeeze too much into a 2 week schedule.
spend some time in the places you go to ...

Andy

There's always the Karmann factory in Oesnabruk. (sp?).

I hear they have quite a museum, but you have to call ahead a few weeks in advance to get permission to go in. I don't recall if they have any teeners, but I think they have some Karmann-produced 911 and 356-es. (as well as Karmann Ghias, of course!).

And if you go to England, skip Stonehenge. Really. There's many far better things to see in England than Stonehenge. There's actually a really neat little railway museum outside of London -> http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/ - - -I'm sure there's a ton of other railroad museums in the UK if you're into that sort of thing - I'm not, actually, but I was really impressed with the one in Didcot. And it's relatively close to London.