I'm considering updating my sealed beam headlights with period correct H4's. What's the maximum wattage bulb that can be installed without having to install relays? In the past I've installed H1's with 100/80 watt bulbs in my early SWB 911 and I needed to install relays. I'm not interested in LED lights.

You will have to stick with what you have there 60/55. Motorcycle LED's are plug and play in H4 bulbs. NO fans or canbus needed.

even with the smaller bulbs...
your still putting a lot of load through the headlight switch
and premature failure....
(well I guess its about 50Years old... so may not be premature...)

Please consider doing the LED conversion on those H4's. Your wiring will thank you and you will love the light output.

I have 60/55 H4 upgrades on mine...never had an issue. I'm changing over to LED lights though (they won't look the same, but they are flip-up lights so most of the time they'll be hidden.

Let me know if you want a used set.

How will it look different with LED bulbs? Are you just swapping the bulb within the enclosure or doing the full assembly? Any photos?

LED bulbs don't really work well, I'm going with a full unit.
They look more like this...whatever the original version of this was, tons of knockoffs now:

I broke down and bought a set of the 914rubber LED lights and housings on black friday.
I'm not a fan of LED's but my 60/55 H4's are just not cutting it and the 100/80w units are illegal. I'm tired of the car behind me lights over riding my H4 lights.

I can't comment on the fit and performance yet, housings look good, metal body but are plastic lenses and they do look stock. Not a stupid looking (IMHO on a 914) modern LED light.

I had the GE Nighthawk lights in my car and they performed exceptionally well. The only reason I swapped to the H4 LED kit is I wanted the car to look as stock as possible. The performance of the GE lights was amazing. My LED's are good, but not as good as the Nighthawks were. For the few times I drive the car at night, I am fine with the H4 LED's.

Although my objective may be different; don't care about originality, just wanted to "see and be seen". The 914Rubber upgrade is wonderful. Head light brightness is pretty much equivalent to a modern vehicle.

All of the Spoke LED products are good as well.

Bought some of the bulbs Vintage LEDs was selling for H4 housings, but have yet to install them. Been waiting for a proper, dedicated LED 7-inch round headlight like the one above but without the bar or other modernizations to say they're LEDs.

Yeah, they're pop-up lights, but everyone's got their ticks.

Having run Spoke's LED brake lights with white boards for a while, it's possible to modernize with nearly stock looks…and very, very worthwhile. Having run both 55/60 and 80/100 bulbs in H4s, don't bother with either if you have been spoiled by many (or any) modern cars.

I ran 80/100 for from 86? to 2017?
The alternator is much happier with my vintage leds
Light is much better… and I’m old and get caught in the dark from time to time

Driving through my rural winding roads, the Nighthawks are awesome. Lots of light, far down the road and to the side. I never get flashed by oncoming cars so I'm assuming the cutoff is good. The high beams are incredible.

We don't have streetlights so the light is especially noticeable.
I'm also an early adopter and big fan of Spoke's lights. Easy to see, even in the day and no more melted rear housings.

I put LED's in both of my 914s and the difference is amazing. I made a video of the install...and there's a scene showing the before/after...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkTa0JSenk0

Holley is making a stock look one now too, might be worth a look:

https://www.holley.com/blog/post/add_modern...t_classic_look/

Nice find! The Holley lights look good. Only question might be mounting depth…

https://www.holley.com/products/exterior/li...s/parts/LFRB135

(With apologies to Cal for derailing his thread. I too love H4s for their period looks, but they are woefully inadequate in 2022. And my time with 80/100s had me cringing for my wiring and switches every time I swapped to high-beams)

Note to self re 100w Halogens;
......install relays or upgrade to modern lighting
Them Holleys look good.....anyone here have install experience ?

I agree. Nathan seems to have found a great solution. But I think someone needs to bite the bullet and buy a set to see how they fit.

One of the issues with the GE Nighthawks in my car was the headlight protruded from the pocket about 1/4" more than stock which meant we had to adjust the "eye brows" so the light did not hit them when opening and closing. Left a bit more of a gap than a stock headlight would require. Overall, not a big deal, but just so you know.

On the H4 LED lights in my car now, you do have to carefully fit the LED power module into the headlight bucket area and secure it well so it does not move around. That took a bit of fiddling as there is not a lot of room but I finally got them perfectly secured and have had no issues. I posted pictures of my installation in one of the headlight threads.

Finally, I have all of Spoke's LED lights in my car and I 1000% endorse and love them. Plug and play installation that even I could do. They make a huge difference and people comment on them regularly. The single biggest safety upgrade you can do for our old cars.

I installed VintageCar LED headlamps 2 yrs. ago after seeing demo at Okteenerfest. It was an easy plug and play swap, but the improvement in lighting was outstanding, and they look very much like the H4s I replaced. I believe it was the model 3500 they offer that I purchased, a very worthwhile upgrade for any teeners driven in darkness!

I have the 914rubber globes and LEDs in daylight/5600k and switched my driving/fog lights to a matching color temp led but the Retrobright in classic white/3000k is interesting. hypothetically, a totally retro/classic/original appearance with modern output.

I’ve been looking at these. Currently $270 for a pair of bulbs and Hella lenses. Were these just plug and play?

mine were literally plug and play
took minutes to install...
longer to align

Yes!

LED's are a huge improvement, I agree on the aesthetic even though they're pop-ups. I had the VintageCarLED's on my /4 ( https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vc3500-classic-kit/ ) I sold and it was a big difference. I put some amazon LED's into the Hella H4's on the /6 and they're pretty good but they have a control box of sorts on the wiring from the bulb to the harness and I've noticed that it sometimes gets caught a little behind the light when they go back down because it's getting pinched back there. I like those Holley's and the fact that the light looks very retro yet has a redesigned lens pattern and the very simple pig tail is pretty compelling. I just ordered some because of this thread, but they're on back order for another month so we'll see when they get here.

My car has Hella glass H4 lenses already. Is the only thing required at that point a suitable LED bulb to fit in place? Any suggested type or size?

The H4's I replaced were sealed beam lamps, no interchangeable bulbs. The LED replacements were just the same size, I don't remember if they had separate bulbs as they arrived as a single piece unit, just as the lamps replaced. They fit the original light housings without any extra modifications.

VintageLEDs went on the silver car i sold and they are awesome. Got the H4 kit and was extremely simple and they look pretty right to the casual observer. The light difference is immense and consider it a safety improvement of the first order

When I built my six conversion, I put in the 914-6 style column. The turn signal switch is also the dimmer switch, and carries the whole load of the headlights. I was planning on putting in H4 headlights with really big bulbs, so I ran a new fused power lead all the way to each headlight, and put in relays to turn on the headlights. That lowered the amp load on the dimmer switch to just what was required to trigger the relays. Then I put in the brightest halogen bulb I could get. It was substantially better than the original sealed beam lights.

We also had H4 halogen lights in Betty's car, but with the lowest wattage bulb. When 914 Rubber offered the LED conversion kits for the H4 lights, I put a set in her car.

The difference was (pun intended) night and day. The headlights were so much more effective, and the amp load on the alternator went way down. Parked next to my six conversion, the LED lights were visibly brighter. So we put a set in my six conversion.

Now I have all the fancy wiring for high load bulbs, and I really don't need it.

We were so impressed, we even put a set of the H4 conversion bulbs in the factory six.

Clay

I too HAVE the GE Nighthawks. However, I first installed period correct EVERYTHING and then we to the H4's with Halogens.....extra power with a relay kit. Still not good enough........Soooooooo, I found a pair of Nighthawks ($$$$$) that were still in the box new and installed. Wow,

I am this weekend installing LED's in the dash. When I was in my 20's I did not notice how dim the dash was, perhaps because I did not care.......but now I need more Lumens........much more......

I’m a bit different. I love the nighthawk led lights but keep the gauge lights dim. I prefer it like that in all my cars. Bright dash lights bother me.

Maybe the answer is in here somewhere and I didn't catch it.
I replaced my sealed beams with Cibie Z-beam housings and H4 halogen 40+ years ago (probably illegal at the time...). One bulb finally went out about 2 years ago and I replaced both with 9003/HB2/H4 60/55w bulbs.
I don't drive much at night, but really like the Z-beam cutoff on low. Is there a straight LED bulb replacement? white 5000k preferred. This is a factory -6 if that makes a difference. No fog lights (yet..)

I installed the 914 Rubber H4 LED kit. What a difference in light. I had to remove them at this time and go back to regular H4 lights.

The problem that I am having with the 914 H4 LED bulbs is related to the combination of running the low beams with the fog lights. When low beams are on AND then turn on the fogs, I blow the low beam fuses. The brights still work.

Any ideas on what the problem may be?

Does anyone have issues with LED's freezing up or allowing snow to build up? I tried to run LED's on our Jeep TJ once and was shocked how fast they built up frost and became useless. I swapped them out for Hella H4's (run those on my Bug and 914 as well).

Seems like you need some heat on the glass if you do any cold weather driving, right?

I see Vintage Car LED's have upgraded their 7" headlights to a better bulb that eliminates the separate power module, apparently. Just saying....

Yes, Dan. Have LED units in our '78 Bronco. When it is snowing, I have to stop every 20 minutes or so to clear off the lenses. I imagine its no different with 98% of the aftermarket housings. 0 heat output forward to the lens. Truck-Lite does offer replacement units that have a heated lens...

If you are worried about snow buildup on your 914 headlights, then you have bigger huevos than me.

I've said it before and will say it again. I'm not a fan of throwing LED bulbs into halogen housings unless you know what you are doing to make sure the beam pattern isn't changed. Too many dipshits on the road blinding oncoming traffic out there already.

These are ones my sons 944 has and they are amazing and inexpensive. Click to view attachment

In the case of our Jeep, it was frost not snow. Figured if LED lights would frost up, don't use them. Don't drive my 914 in snow, but certainly drive in cold weather.

Adding heaters makes sense.

A lot of them are new cars. Either running on high beams out of ignorance or auto dimming that doesn’t always dim properly.

Not just a LED problem.

You can’t fix stupid

True, but a lot of them I've wanted to shoot out were obvious retrofits. LEDs don't emit light the same way as halogen and if they aren't tailored correctly to the housing, they can scatter light all over the place. There are retrofit LEDs that are well-engineered to match the halogen bulb they are intended to replace, but a lot of them are not. Just going by whatever bulbs are the brightest is not the way to do it. When I was looking for retrofit bulbs, I gave up and decided to just buy complete DOT LED units.

I agree that new cars can be a problem, especially some of the first to use LED. Seems like very recent cars have gotten it dialed in. We recently rented a BMW X3 on a trip to Colorado. Never drove a car I hated more. I cannot emphasize how much I hated that car. But one thing I was really impressed by were the headlights. Threw plenty of light on the road but had the most absolute and precisely located cutoff I've ever seen. Really nice.

I little off topic but yesterday I was sitting behind some bigass new pickup at a traffic light in my 914. There were two rear facing lights built into the rear bumper that are probably intended as work lights. This ass-fuck kept turning them on and of course, his bumper was about exactly eye level for me. So he blinded the shit out of me in broad daylight. There is no shortage of dickheads.

Count me in your camp.

One LED vendor sent me the right bulbs in the wrong housings, then told me to just keep the bulbs and put them in my existing H4s—admitting there's nothing different or special about its "premium" H4 housings for its LED bulbs. Its website sure "led" (sorry… ) me to believe the H4 housings it sold were somehow matched to the LED bulbs, and also left me thinking the company developed its own bulbs—which is funny, because what looked like the very same bulbs less a stenciled logo were available on Amazon for $29~/pair iirc.

My hangup is wanting modern LED performance and efficiency (less heat, less draw, less stress) with vintage looks…even when the lights are up. None I've seen did that, until I spotted these…but they aren't cheap.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-lfrb...AyABEgKsjPD_BwE

My only question for those is how far out does the face of the light protrude? They look similar in protrusion to the GE Nighthawks I had. Ultimately, someone has to buy a set and try the fitment. I like the look of the whole unit aside from that.

That actually isn't a bad price for LED assemblies. Not much more than I paid for my Truck-lites a couple years ago and less than I would have to pay today.

@Cairo94507 I always thought the Truck-Lite and GE Nighthawks were the same lights but maybe not. My Truck-Lites were plug and play with no fitment issues at all.

I was just giving you a hard time. I used to drive my 914s in the snow every year. They are actually pretty good snow cars and the only car I've owned that I could push the stuck car out of the snow while sitting in the driver's seat. Now that the car is worth something, those snow driving days are over, but I do drive in cold weather. Haven't had any issues with the LEDs fogging so far here in balmy southern Montana.

Ian, you mentioned a link to your video about installing the resistors for the fog lights to work. Please post it, I don't see it.

Interesting that they class 3000K as "white" when it is close to the standard of "warm" rather than white. I wonder how the actual output cut-off beam looks in real life? Dang its so nice to have the World back!

While I completely agree with the reasoning here, I'm not sure our beloved 'teeners sit high enough to blind anyone! Well, other sports cars excepted of course...

let there be light!

LED done by PMB PERFORMANCE

Bob BClick to view attachment