yep.
germany has already banned full EVs with lithium ion batteries from most standard height multi storey car parks.
can't get the fire trucks in to douse a battery fire.

its under assessment here too.

i was involved with an apartment building that had a car stacker in the design.
the fire brigade took part in all reviews of it.
basically the car park had to be treated as a giant oven.
fully fire isolated from surrounding structure at all points.
the philosophy was let it burn and when its finished scrape it all out afterwards.
no way were they sending the firemen in to fight a fire if a battery went up in the stacker.

see that ship that burned a few months ago?

the electric motors are fine.
but it has to be said that elon musk forced everyone's hand on the batteries.
and i don't think it was a very good call.
but that may change in the decades down the track.

i deal with clients who want tesla wall batteries and car chargers incorporated into their houses. it does not even occur to them there are dangers. once the discussions around the design of the house get real serious its interesting watching them not hesitate to agree to a fire isolated garage structure for both the wall battery and the car.

another tit bit of information for ya.

i was out east in the state (thats in australia) two weeks ago for a bushfire rebuild job.
with my structural engineer mate.
we went down to the sailing club he is a member of for a few evening ales.
interesting guys hang out there.

just off shore of 90 mile beach is the big oil and gas fields that got opened up by ESSO in the 60s (thats EXXON). those fields just pump gas these days into a big pipeline that comes inshore in a couple of spots. we were drinking with a guy who is way up the food chain looking after the system.

basically the life of those fields will now be determined by the life of the offshore rigs not the field itself. the decision has already been made.

he said the rigs are already past their designed lifespan by 20 years and have been given a go ahead to be maintained as best as possible for another 10 then .......lights out.

i imagine its the same all around the world.

the oil infrastructure is slowly being turned off.
its a lot of money to maintain that infrastructure.

it got me thinking because once the pipeline gets on shore it just goes everywhere and basically connects into an entire east coast of australia gas network.

all that is going to be sacrificed at some point in the next few decades and it seems the implementation of the shut down has commenced.

the australian public it seems has not been informed of that.

the offshore rigs are still owned by EXXON.
or some sub company of them.

the australian govt. never had the $ in the first place to develop the fields in the post war years nor would it have the ability to extract further life out of the resource.

interesting times.

My nephew recently sold his Tesla and went (back to) a 991. Smart kid, said the "S" was just not right for him.

Hmmm... I think you should run for office. Seriously. If you do, don't forget about the SHIFT key. Best to you & yours.

Right on!!!!!!!!!!!

@Superhawk996

My goal is to weigh the same as a six. One thing I should point out is those conversions used a small drive unit which is roughly 198 pounds. The battery weight sounds about right. The contactors, relay, BMS and so on are in the high part of the battery box, next to the large coolant tank.

On my car I will start at the front. The front pack weighs 95 pounds, the mount, fuses, BMS around 14 pounds. So roughly the weight and location of a full full tank.

I have a 2.5 pound 12 volt battery where EGR counter was located.

The motor is a Hyper9 125 HP, 170 lbs/ft of torque it weights 120 pounds (with the inverter/controller), The transaxle dictates the motor location, the flywheel is 5.25 pounds, the pressure plate is 13 pounds, the disc is stock. I would love to find a lighter pressure plate and disc.

The two rear packs are also 95 pounds each. They are located 1-3/8" above the floor pan, the case is about 1/4" from the firewall and sit on each side of the motor. All the rear mass is a below the top of the trans axle. My engine/ battery cradle weighs 24.5 pounds, the battery cases are a total of 26.5 pounds. Two chargers at 11.5 pounds each. One at the original battery location one at the relay box location. 23 pounds of copper cabling and 15 pounds of contactors, fuses, relays, and DC to DC convertor.

So I'm a around 428 pounds at the location that from what I can find is around 350 pounds for a four and 450 pounds for a six. I believe the mass is a little lower and closer to the center than a six. From what I have found of people weighing complete engine and ancillary parts that seems to be close.I never had an engine to weigh so I have to go off what documentation I can find.

I have a dread of running out of charge with an electric car. The idea of chopping a classic car does not appeal to me one bit. But, that is one neat reversible conversion. If it had a decent range, meaning you could actually drive somewhere, it might be a winner.

A bit like airships, nice idea but are they practical?

yeah no worries. i'm not really into reforming, just resignation.

i just saw that the little electric car did smash the hill climb record at goodwood.
most people at goodwood were reported to have grins from ear to ear watching it do it.

it is the future.....whether we like it or not.
just saying.

i'm pretty sure that politicians down here will find a way to ban it before anything like it could ever get near a public road. so not much point wasting time trying to alter the inevitable.

I think that is an admirable goal. Just be aware (which it seems you are) that weight isn't the only thing. It also matters where the weight is located and how it is oriented.



@914e

Whats 90 lbs among friends.

So we'll call the total 600 lbs for that rear module. Way to heavy and the fact is that motor is still behind the axle and is a serious degradation as far as driving dynamics are concerned.

In all honesty, I'm intrigued by your conversion proposal. You get extra points in my book by retaining a transmission and a clutch pedal as an anti-theft device.

It sounds like you are at least trying to minimize the handling degradation and have a decent chance of achieving something close based on what you've laid out. A big chunk of your success will depend where that front mass goes. If you can get it inside the fuel tank compartment, that is a huge success to keep mass centralized. As it continues to move forward from the OEM location, you'll be adding to moment of inertia even though the weight might be close to a full fuel tank. Location of the front weight matters a lot.

Do you have a build thread? If not, please start one and let's see how it shapes up.

It is very simple. If the batteries start to burn, just shoot the car into space.

Why? Didn't @914e show it can be done with 428 lbs? It's fine to be skeptical, but you are just speculating on the weight of the conversions.



This is all I've been trying to say all along.

@Superhawk996

As someone who used to work at a conversion company and has driven almost one of everything, I feel you are over estimating the impact the weight shift has. Will it be noticed... yes to a skilled driver, will it kill the gocart feel... not so much.

How many of us actually drive curvy roads at 10/10 where it would be detrimental like a 911 The 911 seems to do ok in racing too

I have a complete t4 package in the garage, I will have to weight it as I thought it was 280 ish.

While it may be true that some people don't have the ability to notice - those are folks best served by EV's in general and EV conversions specifically. However, I've been a professional development engineer and test driver capable of doing limit handling and chassis tuning for most of my career.

It matters. To say otherwise is to argue that physics doesn't apply to EV's. Handling maneuvers don't have to be at 10/10 to notice either. Simple transient maneuvers like emergency lane change and/or how well the vehicle turns into a constant radius corner will be enough to tell the difference.

If anyone is unsure where they fall in handling sensitivity spectrum, $30 of pea gravel should help them determine what they are or aren't capable of feeling.

With respect to the 911 comments . . . . long ago, I choose the 914 because it has superior handling to a 911 of the same vintage. I don't see the need to turn a 914 into a 911 since they are already out there if someone wants that experience.

I admitted I'm intrigued. Would like to see it physically done or at least modeled in CAD before we celebrate. Sometimes reality has a way of getting in the way of the product as conceived. Not saying that will happen here but it is my nature to be a skeptic.

I do agree EV is the future, and technology is moving very fast this days, everyone will be able to get the new EV technology for cheap very soon…

Just don’t break your precious 914 Porsche just now, gas will continue existing, (maybe more expensive), you will have your tool to commute. And your gas burning fumes and noise generator to smile on the weekends.

If you want an electric Porsche you can get a Taycan…

I do think we should be careful not to use value statements like "degrades" handling characteristics since that presumes the owner's preferences. I've heard people say the BUBs on late model 914 make the cars more comfortable for touring. One person's "degrade" may be another's "improve." IMO, one of the coolest things about 914s is how versatile they are for a 2-seater sports car.

I'll have to say, if I was a good enough driver to swing the tail of a 911 out around corners, I think I'd find them quite fun. I've come close in a 914 twice. Both times the car spun like a top. It wasn't on purpose of course. A combo of sand covered roads, bald tires, and undeveloped brain contributed. Rather shocking how quickly one goes from feeling firmly planted to watching the scenery repeat several times in a couple seconds. Might have been avoided if I'd have been hauling some sand bags in each trunk.

Nah, This is the electric Porsche for me

i've got a feeling what might happen, at least down here, is you might at some point have to purchase C02 credits to run old cars as well as find the gasoline. but thats some way off. of course there are the zealots who want to ban petrol cars period by such and such a date. but i think they will be regarded as extremists for a good while yet.

but..... i do think though we might be going from one energy crisis to another.
a hydrocarbon energy shortage/difficulty to an electricity energy crisis? i seriously doubt there will be enough electricity to go around once the car fleet does gain momentum and electric take up gets a head of steam. i can see that one happening.

anyway onward.

This is all I've been trying to say all along.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing how to degrade the range of a 914.

don't forget his tiger tank proposal/prototype.
probably would have worked better at hauling 70 tons of king tiger than the poor old maybach V12?

I thought this was a good discussion of that question. Of course, if we could just get over irrational fears of nuclear power, we could save ourselves a lot of headache.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

as you probably know bbrock australia has a hysterical fear of nuclear power second only to new zealand.

but.........oddly its suddenly being openly canvassed in public discussions after half a century as a taboo subject.

the recent controversial cancelation of a french conventional powered submarine contract (probably ignored by the press in the usa since austalia is irrelevant as a country) was followed by an announcement by the govt that we would be purchasing US nuclear submarines and that US nuclear submarines would be admitted into naval ports in australia. of course US nuclear subs have been going into secure naval ports in western australia for years (the indian ocean fleet) but no one talks about that.

so ........... the subject has been gently introduced.

the logic would be - children, you can't have your tesla for desert until you eat all your plutonium.

yeah that is a good discussion.

i especially like that he touched on the ability to find a place to charge the car.
ie apartment dwellers who park in the street.
right now a lot of electric take up is by folks in aus who live in stand alone houses - its no issue to plug in the cord. but i have noticed all sorts of ramshackle set ups starting to happen in the inner city areas where relatively wealthy middle class people live in terrace houses. i think you guys call them row houses. people park in the street there. and they have been running cords across the sidewalk from their houses to their new teslas.
with silly little safety stripped cover boards over them on the sidewalk. all of which is illegal. won't be long before someone trips up and the legals come in like vultures and there will be a crackdown.

there will definitely be power rationing going on - in the sense at least of forcing folks to use obscure times of the night and timers as well as incentives to charge their cars.

as well as thinking of some imaginative ways to build a variation on the petrol station as a charging station. for folks with cars that live in the street. i imagine those urban charging stations might be multi storey structures a bit like parking garages.

i guess i think of these things because of my line of work. there will be changes to the urban landscape to deal with the new cars as they populate.

one thing i don't see happening is that people give up cars or do the car share rental thing. we have a few zealots bashing that idea down here. i just can't see that flying.
the car has been an amazing tool freeing individuals and i think that will be the one constant. folks are not going to give up on the idea of their car, or owning it.
but i could be wrong.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is maintenance and dependability.

How much time do most of us spend chasing vacuum leaks, bad injectors, carb rebuilds, fuel issues, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc. etc.

All of that goes away with an EV. I've lived with one as my DD for 6 years now and while the torque and practicality are great, one of the most remarkable things in retrospect is that I don't have to ever think about maintenance. Once in those five years, I needed the 12v battery replaced. And there have been plenty of minor inconvenience fixes, most due to Mr. Musk's tendency toward gadgetry (damn retractable door handles). Drive all day, come home, plug in, go to bed, repeat.

Right now, my 914 is sitting in the garage because it's suddenly decided to only run on 3 cylinders. If it were as turnkey as the Tesla -- with moderately more torque and imperceptibly (to me) compromised handling -- it would get driven a hell of a lot more.

From my point of view its complete nonesense to convert a 914 into a golfcart only due to the fact that it is technically possible.
The 914 has been designed for an ICE, all the design of the car is based on that idea.
Maybe EVs are the future and even if this is going to become reality within the next 20 years, why should i convert one of these nice cars into something which performs not like the real thing?
EVs suffer from battery weight and thats the reason why EVs need to be carefully designed and outlined, something that will never succeed by converting ICE based cars.

So, enjoy your cars running on real fuel as long as we‘re able to buy it. Enjoy the handling, the sound, the smell, the acceleration and the remembrance of a better time.

Or, buy a Tesla, or should I say, buy a VW, since I‘m german ?

BR

Benno

hardly an equal comparison, a newer EV to a near 50 years old sporting car. I am still voting for our ICE's at least until sometime the technology catches up.

And if I may make a minor correction "Drive all day" I was unaware any EV's had this capability?

Also, great thread to get one's feathers ruffled

Please report back in 50 years (maybe sooner) when IGBT's and batteries start failing.

Then spend the money/time to make it a brand new car like the Tesla....

Eventually the Tesla will need parts. The screen, cameras, blower motor & resistors, relays, window regulator, water pump, axle boots, seals, bushings, bearings... all stuff from the standard parts suppliers. Then there is the heater and comp that will eventually wear out. Worried yet

Definitely fair. But a brand-new EV requires less maintenance than a brand-new ICE vehicle, too. Manufacturers who require regular maintenance on their EV models are doing so for the revenue, not because it's technically required.


A typical day for me is 40-50 miles of running around. Maybe 70 if I really have to go somewhere out of the way. My 9 year old base-model Tesla has a usable range of about 180mi. A brand new one comes with 400 miles of range. How many people drive more than 400mi/day, other than cargo delivery? Lucid Air has a 500mi range. Plenty of affordable EVs can run 200-275mi/day. Some real-world data on daily driving distances here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic...191261516309067


Look, I can't speak with authority about how to shave 3/4 of a second off your lap time, or how to rebuild a carb. But I do have a pretty solid amount of experience living with an EV as my daily driver. It's hilarious to me that people who lack this experience are trying to explain to me the deficiencies of EVs.

10 mph * 10 hrs in LA traffic = 100 miles. Drive all day.

Lots.

When I used to get overnight competitor vehicles for bench marking purposes I'd easy put 300-400 miles on a vehicle over a 12 hour period if it was an especially cool car.

I regularly travel cross country driving 16 - 20 hours per day. I'm usually shooting for a 1000 mile day.

Even a weekend joy ride in the car or on one of the motorcycles will go 200 - 300 miles over the course of a morning & afternoon.

EV's have a place and purpose but don't assume others share EV friendly use cases.

Oh come on you say . . . .

Lots of kids from Detroit Metro area attend college at Michigan Tech in Houghton, Michigan. Pretty long drive back & forth. Michigan Tech runs a automotive winter test facility (KRC) in that area that I used to test out of. Drive up Sunday night, drive home Friday afternoon.

Click to view attachment

You're cherry picking . . . .

Northern Michigan University
Click to view attachment

Lake Superior State University.
Click to view attachment

Are the negatives we will endure being forced to convert to EV, really be worth it for 12% reduction in Co2 . This is a much bigger picture than the one they are showing the public. Until batteries can get a normal human to and from an emergency call from your Parents, Grand Parents or Kids, it will be unrealistic as real transportation. But running the kids to school and back or a Cars and Coffee oddity is cool. They are planning on some type of lithium extraction at the south end of the Salton Sea. Smoke from fire or an algae bloom is blown right to the populated areas north of Salton Sea. The population here, rich and poor will be right in the way. Nothing has been said about us. Remember Bhopal, India and Union Carbide? To me it all looks like an environmental and economic disaster.


"But what of all the extra electricity needed to power those cars, wouldn’t that add some extra emissions? Technically, we found that the switch to electric cars would save 14% from the total carbon emissions. However it would also cause an increase in carbon emissions from electricity power stations equivalent to about 2% of total national emissions (assuming current mix of fossil and renewable energy sources).

Adding the reduction in driving emissions, and subtracting the extra electricity generation emissions means that, in all, the UK would emit 42 million tonnes less of CO₂ into the atmosphere each year – a 12% reduction on the 351.5 million tonnes emitted in total last year."

*******************************************************

However, according to California regulations, all lithium batteries tested are classified hazardous due to excessive levels of cobalt (average 163 544 mg/kg; σ = 62 897; limit 8000), copper (average 98 694 mg/kg; σ = 28 734; limit 2500), and nickel (average 9525 mg/kg; σ = 11 438; limit 2000). In some of the Li-ion batteries, the leached concentrations of chromium, lead, and thallium exceeded the California regulation limits. The environmental impact associated with resource depletion and human toxicity is mainly associated with cobalt, copper, nickel, thallium, and silver, whereas the ecotoxicity potential is primarily associated with cobalt, copper, nickel, thallium, and silver. However, the relative contribution of aluminum and lithium to human toxicity and ecotoxicity could not be estimated due to insufficient toxicity data in the models. These findings support the need for stronger government policy at the local, national, and international levels to encourage recovery, recycling, and reuse of lithium battery materials.

Everything is CA is classified as hazardous via Prop 65

For a few years I was working out of Santa Clara. The building had a Prop 65 warning posted at the door . .. .

Fully agree though that the only path toward viability of EV's for the masses won't occur until raw materials can be obtained within a reasonable risk / benefit framework and with recycling of used batteries eventually contributing to the bulk of new battery production.

EV's won't happen until there's no longer money to be made from gas....rather until there's less money to be made in gas vs. batteries.

Had a chance to buy one of the early Tesla Roadsters off an Estate. Wonderful car, battery range was decent for age of battery/number of cycles. Glad I passed on it, $40k to have the battery rebuilt.

What's the stat from 1903? Something like 97% of all vehicles on the road were electric. Hell, even the charging plug was standardized by SAE. Then gas really took off, steam and electric powered motor carriages went away.

Convert a 914 to EV? Sure, if it was the option that allowed me to keep driving the car.

Hahahaha, True that. Prop 65 is killing fly's with Thermite.

As a youngster, I used MEK to weld plastic in LA county. "Gloves?!?" says the forman "No worries guys..." We heard his version of - "We don't need no stinking badges! " It should have been Prop 32.5...Hell nothing makes sense here any more.

Wait. Fifty years before they need maintenance? Sign me up!

Yes, these are fun things to ponder with wild possibilities. I agree that EV currently makes most sense for people who can easily charge at home and whose travels begin and end at home to minimize frustrations of public charging stations. We just had solar installed on our house which now makes it a no-brainer that our next car will be a plug-in hybrid. The one we are eyeing has a 42 mile EV range which is plenty for our daily commuting even allowing for significantly less range in cold winter weather. For those longer trips, there is an ICE that gets 38 mpg which is more than 10 mpg higher than our current DD. We'll need to add a few more panels to our solar system to accommodate the increased load, but that is trivial. My calculations indicate that the gasoline we won't by with this set up will cut the payback time of the solar system to less than half. A no brainer.

I do not think EVs are ready for long (multiple fill up) trips. The range of EVs is already competitive with ICE but the charge times and public charging infrastructure are big problems. When EV charging is as convenient as pumping gas, they'll be ready. Minimally, I think when you can get 200+ miles of range in 15 minutes, then benefits of EV will out weigh problems for most people. Ideally this would be 300+ miles in 10 minutes but I feel like 200/15 will be the tiping point.

Once you cross that barrier which I think will happen fairly quickly, it opens a couple possibilities for charging. One is that we just retrofit gas stations with chargers and people continue to top off their batteries like we currently top off tanks. However, I think the convenience of home charging will be a strong lure that is only increased for people who can produce their own power to charge their cars. I would expect to see parking meter style chargers popping up at most outdoor parking spaces which could either be "owned" by a townhouse or condo owner, or metered so anyone parked there can pay for a charge. That gets rid of the scramble of improvised cables, but then we'll have to figure out how to keep people from stealing cables for the copper.

With millions of cars plugged into chargers at a given time, things get really interesting because not only can those cars take power out of the grid, they can also put power back in. There are working prototypes where people can sell power from their car batteries to the grid. They decide how much range they need to have in their cars and when so they always have the charge they need on hand. The system runs like the stock market so the car owner buys power low and sells high.
Very interesting to think about for balancing renewable energy power. All those car batteries combined with sophisticated automatic redistribution could be a major part of the renewable storage problem. I still think we'll need some nukes sprinkled in, but fascinating possibilities.

Finally for car sharing. I agree it is only going to work for a fairly small market with current technology, but what happens when we have self-driving cars? Could be a game changer because cars could redistribute themselves. A sharing system might not look any different to the end user than private ownership. When they walk out to get in a car, it is there waiting for them even though it has been on other errands when the user wasn't looking. It could even add flexibility because the car waiting could change. Someone needs a pickup one day? There it is. Next day they want a minivan, and there it is.

Interesting possibilities.

So, how do you feel about Small-Block Chevy conversions?

--DD

i know someone who has been through 3 touchscreens so far on her tesla.
she is a bit pissed off about it too.
i think they kind of get paralysed when that happens.
hopefully mr musk got on top of that one.

yes, they make complete sense as an urban commuter vehicle and even weekend vehicle within reasonable range of the city, even in aus, even right now.

and you are right, you don't really have to touch them for the first few years of ownership. just check the tyres etc. complete appliance.

my job means i do have a problem with distance.
every two years of so i get a job with an easy 350km distance to site involved. 700k round trip.
and once i get into construction phases of a project where i have to go and do site inspections it can get down to once a week or fortnight and last for months on end.
most evs just wouldn't get me there. but a hybrid easily would.
three years ago i did a job that was 700k one way.
not that i want to do that again. good thing petrol was cheaper.
glad i didn't quote fees on that job without factoring in a european war.
i used my little renault for that work. funny thing is out on the highway it goes damn near close to a hybrid in terms of mpg efficiency. still not a stark enough difference to make the jump. but if the numbers added up i would do it and the hybrid was the right sort of car too. but they ain't. they are pretty ordinary offerings down here so far.

i did chase a first gen honda insight about 10 years ago. a very cool car. unfortunately enough other guys thought they were too so they all got chased down for high $ and are tightly held. cult status? its still a car i'd like to get hold of. very purist and attractive vehicle in terms of design and technology.

they have a ways to go on autonomous vehicles.
possibly might work in the city environments well before open roads.
lower vehicle speeds might assist with robotics and acceptance.
but yes its possible fleets of vehicles might be moving around the city.
basically a robotic taxi fleet.
the city has the density to pull it off where you don't have to wait too long.
in a way we already much closer to that with trains.
they will probably end up driverless too and maybe before the cars?

Unless you have a crystal ball nobody can know where we will be in 1,5,20 years. I do know technology is racing along and can hardly doubt anybody's claim to anything. Hold on tight boys and girls

All the while I still enjoy my little 914

Exactly why I'm not interested in Tesla or several other EV models. Replacing an ICE and fuel tank with electric motors and batteries is one thing. Trying to convert a car to a space ship is another. I recently learned you can't even open the glove box on some Teslas without using the tablet. No thank you. IIRCC, VW has gone overboard on the techie stuff in their EVs too.

Buttons, switches and knobs are good things. Ever try using a touch screen with calloused fingers, or worse, with gloves on?

I'm not sure I want to kick that hornets nest right now.

Physics is Physics. It really doesn't matter what the powertrain is.

When modifications start increasing weight, raising Cg height, and increasing polar moment of inertia, handling moves away from the nimble chassis that the 914 started with.

I don't know who said it, but a universal truth of automotive engineering is that "weight begets more weight".

Sometimes that weight gain is driven by HP gains (need larger brakes, stronger trans, stronger axles, bigger tires, etc.), other times that weight is driven by the powertrain choice itself and it's cooling implications. Without offsets, that weight gain can quickly spiral out of control and affects polar moment of inertia adversely.

Personally, my psyche is invested in what originally drew me to Porsche back in the mid-eighties. Light weight, air cooled, handling unlike any American Iron I had experienced prior to my driving my buddy's early-70's vintage 911 in early 1987. Subsequent seat time in the mid engine 914 convinced me that was the better chassis vs. the 911 even though it certainly wasn't faster than a 911 of the same era. My bias is toward steering and handling - less toward acceleration. That's just me and it's different from most gear heads that want to "Hot Rod" or EV fans that want other attributes like limited or perceived zero emissions, less NVH, etc. Others will have different preferences - that's OK.

Despite our trading jabs over the subject, I am actually of the same opinion. Heck, I didn't even increase displacement when I rebuilt my engine. The carbs were an unfortunate accident of timing. However, I think EV conversions are as valid and interesting as any other conversion and appreciate well done examples. I'm not a conversion guy, but if I were, I think it would have to be EV.

the same woman has now become obsessed with tyre "roar".
i wonder why?

Wind noise is the other very common complaint on EV's year to year in JD Power surveys.

Speaking of Tesla... insurance.

2004 Blazer $1212 yr
2013 Fiat 500e $1560 yr (happened across one for sale locally)
2020 Tesla Y $3012 yr

$1800 buys 7,200-10k miles in the Blazer, more than I typically DD. So no Tesla in my near future.

yeah you can see where its going to go.
double glazing.
smooth bodies.
and tyre tech and sound proofing off the hook.

kind of the opposite of everything a 914 is?
in terms of you know sensory input.
it will be sensory detachment?

i think i am pleased to have lived through the era i have.
not sure the future is going to be exactly sane.
might encourage a kind of neurosis?