Dubious if the car has 5894 original miles...

https://www.diamondmotorworks.com/1973-pors...arga-c-4254.htm

Short video of the outside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cAVkUUa1Xs

Has the VIN listed as "473291972" but assuming they mean 4732901972 which isn't in the VIN database.

Has the front euro turn signal lenses and the kit to relocate the parking light to the bottom, so some previous owner was detail oriented lol..

Actually looks like 4732919172…except for the tag on the top of the passenger fender. That VIN is tough to read but what I can make out likes like a 212 together, which doesn’t make sense. The seams around that area look bodgy as well.

The tag on the front headlight bucket looks correct. Of course it’s missing the money shots. Looks like a nice car but as with everything it’s best to put eyes on it before purchasing.

Seller said it’s restored so I suppose that means not an original 5xxx miles.

It looks like a clean car (from the limited pictures anyways), but...

Who puts an aftermarket reflector, a rusty bursch exhaust, removes the rear trunk springs and swaps out the heat exchangers on a 6k mile car?

Also:
looks like the ignition tumbler has been swapped out.
Seems to be some questionable wiring hanging down by the trans and along the lower firewall.

and is that overspray i see on the drives door VIN sticker?

Quite a few other things seem off as well. i dont buy that its only been driven 6k miles.

106k maybe... maybe

"arguably the best in the world"??? Im not seeing a very strong argument

is that a socket?

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just about everyone in the 70s.
i'd say its been on there since new or near new.

(fortunately it was not done to mine. )

the car was sold on BAT a couple of years back.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-54/

current pricing not substantially different to what present owner bought it for.

ps

i don't think anyone is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes on the 6 K miles.
more that its done 6K since a substantial restoration. it hasn't done a lot since 99/early 2000s when you read comments in BAT ad.

the BAT ad is interesting as it implies the rear reflector was fitted as part of a "special dealer package" when the car was new!!!! pretty funny that the dealers were tarting them up like that. if you look close the rear trunk lock is drilled through the reflector which is very unusual. most later aftermarket installs used a remote release.
also came with the bursch exhaust. all is not what it seems. ie its actually original from the showroom - maybe not factory, but showroom - (but restored).

looks to be an ok car.

its a 1.7 not a 2.0

May be the connector for the original fuel pump.

What is the twisted pair of wires by the hand brake cable?

I am more concerned about the apparent VIN mis-match between the VIN tag in the trunk and the stamped passenger fender VIN in addition to the overall condition of that inner fender top surrounding the stamped VIN. Otherwise, looks like a decent car with over 100K miles.

It looks like a nice car, however this car would never pass a certified VIN Inspection. The VIN mismatches would be a real problem. The body stamped VIN is tampered with and the VIN plate in the frunk looks like it has been tampered with as well. Would be nice to see the VIN Tag on the A Pillar

I honestly never thought I'd live to see the day when 914's were subject to the Bull and puffery that plague the world of 911's, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.

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Bueller . . . Bueller . . . . Anyone?

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Yeah . . . totally unmolested.

I guess it's really saying something when the scamming has ramped up to this level.

The driver side corner of my car was clipped long ago before I bought it with crappy lap welding to boot (still needs to be fixed as of 2022). It was hidden far better than this.

Driver side appears to have a slight buckling / kink from the hit too.

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Don't get me started on the "unmolested" addition of gas struts to the rear deck lid with an angle iron bracket.



I feel slimey just having read the listing. Gotta go take a shower . . .

Was at a shop yesterday and saw a 74 2.0 in orange with 71k original miles. Car was basically perfect everywhere we looked, all original paint, all stickers and markings intact and interior in great shape.

The car is going up for sale as the owners broker was getting a PPI.

I suspect that this car will easily sell north of $50k, but not on BAT.

Yep - actually shows that the dealer added the reflector for $95 on the original window sticker (see the BAT listing).

this 914 is LOADED with miles

Isn't that a 120mph 72 or older speedo?

Wow, I hadnt seen the BAT ad previously but now that I have I am moving my opinion on this car from "misleading" to "outright fraud"

Way to much fishy crap with that "Dick Barbour window sticker" not the least of which being im pretty sure Dick didnt have access to a time machine to source a laser printer to produce window stickers with.

Would love to have that paper in my had to take a close look, but as someone that spent part of my life working in both printer development and forgery investigations, this sure looks like a load of to me from here.

The taking a candle to the corners of the paper to make it look old is a good try though.

I can only assume the current owner realized its level of fakeness which is why it isnt included in the latest ad.

Nice!

Now in going back and looking at the BAT "window sticker" I notice it has "So Cal Printing 2/73" on it.

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Yet, Vehicle was manufactured 4/73?

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I guess they knew months, and months ahead of time how there were going to equip it at the dealership? There was a 2 month lag to when the car was built, and then there would have likely been another 2 months or longer for the car to ship from port, inland transport, etc.? No concern for exchange rate fluctuations w.r.t. pricing, etc.?

Sure would be awesome if we have an offset printing expert . . . . are the fonts even viable for that era of offset printing?

The smell is getting worse.

More time machine action going on here...

Or maybe Bursch had a psychic tell them that this exhaust that was "dealer installed" in 1973 would only be useable though the 1974 year cars.

This car is dripping with bull (and also fraud)

That fake window sticker is a poor attempt to convince people that every mod made to this car over the last 50 years was somehow as it was delivered from the dealer.

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Nice catch, I noticed the "SoCal printing" and that that company has only been around 15 years (and also who the hell has a printing company print individual window stickers for their cars?) but i didnt even notice the 2/73 date on it.

This just keeps get funnier... and sadder.

They put more effort into a forgery then they did just finding original parts for the car to convince people it is legit.

Morons.

Not sure about the fonts themselves (though i also questioned that) as I was not around in 1973 but I did spend a few years working for Epson in photo printer development and have spent more hours staring though a loupe at printouts than any sane person should.

I feel very confident in saying that "window sticker" came off a modern printer in a single pass vs any dealer window sticker older than maybe 20 years ago that would have had the line items entered on an impact printer of some sort (typewriter, dot matrix, etc) over a pre-printed form or card.

the paper itself also appears to be a more modern heavy weight sheet used with laser prints vs light weight perforated roll paper dealers usually use. I cant tell without having a closer look if it is ink jet or laser, but it looks like laser from here. The gradient background, the borders, the alignment, pretty much all if it screams modern computer generated printout to me.

Not to mention the fact that border perfectly encapsulates the exact number of line item options the car has...

nope, this was laid up on a computer and printed with a modern printer.


also, is it just me or do some of those prices seem a little questionable for 1973?

I cant stop looking at this mess now

Quality job right here...

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yup wiped out from the right side, pulled back out as best as they could, wheel well clip, fender installed improperly, (wide gap) wrinkling and distortion remain in the front trunk area. Also who would replace carpets in a car with only 5000 miles on it?

gone are the days when everyone poopooed me for thinking 914 were worth so much.

You know, I have no problem with 914s that have been damaged/repaired, every one i have ever owned has been to some extent.

But trying to pass it off on an unsuspecting buyer as "unmolested" and "arguably the best in the world" along with forging documents and VIN discrepancies I take issue with. If this isn't outright criminal it sure feels close.

I was thinking the same about the owners club of southern California letter — looks like it's printed on a laser printer in Times New Roman. Criminal that someone would go to the trouble of creating a fake history for this car.

yep
was a world of ollivetti typewriters back then.

interesting about the dick barbour porsche thing.

can understand it would be a replacement bursch exhaust when restored.
but that the window ad is fake. real interesting.

on + side current seller is not trying to hide front right corner replacement.
(or more total front replacement???)
conveniently concealed in older BAT ad by not going there with photos.

what is most amusing is that pebble beach organisers didn't have a clue back in 99?

excellent sleuthing gentlemen. it would have taken me about another 5 days to work out what you guys have noticed. i've just remembered we did not get a photocopier at university until i was in second year. let me think. ----1979? whoever did the letter was using the old cut and paste. guess he didn't have photoshop on his 486 in 1999.

well they weren't. for years.
just sad one-eyed enthusiasts like you and the rest of us thought they were good.

sadly i am nearly as old as you so both you and i can recall there was a brief run on 914s back in the late 80s when they started getting talked up.

then came the recession of the early 90s.

i hope the frenzy on 914s for the last couple of years is not a sign again?

once you see it you can't stop looking.

looks like some kind of seal wandering around in there trying to deal with the curvature mismatch. the drilled hole is unique got to say.

i remember the green crayfords car down here had the obligatory "update" reflector.
i knew the second owner. the first thing he did was get rid of it. underneath was the beautiful european VW-Porsche badge. in the case of that car the rear trunk had a cable release that routed out through the rear bumper just above the number plate.
not exactly a secure storage area. the first owner in sydney had it done some time in the 70s.

Im wondering if they just didn't notice it as they did seem to strategically leave out a lot of other standard shots (that were in the BAT auction) that give away the history/condition of the car. (battery tray shots from the BAT auction showing clear overspray and weld repairs to the rear trunk hinge piviot, anything showing the size of the engine that was also not mentioned in the ad, etc)

Given their careful wording in the ad and selective representation of the car in the photos I was curious if the dealer themselves were involved in the initial forgery or if they are just passing along a bad deal...

So my wife reached out to them with interest in the car

Long story sort still dont know if they are part of the fraud or just got caught in a bad deal, but they do seem to be very careful about directly incriminating themselves while at the same time hiding the reality of this car. They answered my wifes first question about the motor size and did state it to be a 1.7 but follow up questions around condition/history and they just outright stopped talking to her.

Notice how they dont directly state anything in the ad text itself. rather just post pictures of (most likely fake documents) of someone else saying how original and amazing the car is. SUPER fishy

i suspect they are looking to drop this on a sucker sight unseen who doesent ask questions.


Given all the other BS and forgery surrounding this car I have to wonder the legitimacy of that claim as well. Also worth noting only the BAT ad states:

"The seller reports that the car was invited to participate in the 1999 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, and a badge affixed to the dashboard is depicted above."

Which again was just the statement from the seller and the current seller doesn't mention that at all. Also that was 23 years ago, the car could have been in perfect condition back then? Who knows. My guess though is that the badge on the dash is just more added flair to try and represent this car as something it is not.

because they dont seem super hard to come by
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204015680353?hash=...%3ABFBMhou41M5g


Unless someone out there has documentation or photographic evidence of the car being there. I was unable to find anything to substantiate the claim.

@JamesM

is that another fake document you can see underneath the dick barbour cigarette burn tortured window sticker?

detail from one of the BAT images previous sale.
meant to be Porsche + Audi order/sales form for car originally?

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they should look like this?


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fake order form would be interesting.
just picked up something remembering our 74 1.8 research.
in 74 you could get the factory console with gauges and you could get fuchs wheels on your 1.8. but it was additional equipment - special order.
esp the console because it involved installing the sender plate on the 1.8 engine which did not come equipped with the sensor plate + wiring like all 2.0 engines.
the few i found had sales documentation showing it was a factory placed order.
also the engines seemed to have a different stamped paint number on the tin when they were console cars.

i imagine it was the same in 73 if you bought a 1.7. slightly bigger deal to get a console car from the dealer. you could aftermarket it of course. but the order sales form would specify that equipment as on car to start with.

EDIT
the bit of wiring i am talking about is the wire installed on engine from sensor up behind fan casting. the 1.8s did have the tunnel wiring. but that bit of wiring on the engine along with the sensor made a console on a 1.8 a bigger deal than on the 2.0.

@JamesM

its pretty hard to find out anything about pebble beach concours 1999 on a search.

early enough not to end up instagramed everywhere.

did all my usual tricks and zero came up.
just some documentation of class winners.
which this car was not. unsurprisingly.

"The five-digit odometer shows 5,400 miles, which is most likely 105k miles based upon overall condition"

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...mp;viewid=20321

I was wondering what that was and thought it very curious that they never showed a close up of it, even in the BAT auction.

given everything else my guess would be yes.

@JamesM

the guy who probably has it still picked it up on BAT last year.
i thought it was a bit further back in time.
only reason i recalled the BAT sale was i recognized it from 1.8 research last year trawling through stuff there.

he did a gazump on bidders right at the end out of nowhere.
he has had a go at about a million VW auctions on BAT - mostly unsuccessful.

the guy who sold it, if his statements are to be believed had it since 2004.
he picked it up at an auction in texas.
i figured out from very blurry catalogue appearing in one of dealers photos that it was at a Kruse Auction.

Kruse collapsed in 2010 in aftermath of GFC.

it had belonged to another owner between 1999 and 2004 according to BAT seller last year. that owner purchased from RM auctions after pebble beach 99.
how true that bit would be ---who knows?

i wanted to try and find out how much was paid for it at kruse auction.
couldn't dig out info that obscure from that far back.
sort of surprised but then again kruse collapsed.
RM bought them out.

current owner knows enough not to go near BAT again so soon?
comments section has arced up a lot with some names i recognize from here.
he'd get "murdered" with it.
but he knows he got dudded and is trying to offload it?

i think you are right about the pebble beach plaque.
someone has picked one up and screwed it on.

you could get away with a fair bit back in 2004, even more in 99.
googles come a long way since back then.

additionally can't find out anything about george duncan associated with porsche owners association of southern california.
normally you can throw that stuff up even that far back in time.

i get a whole bunch of different names with the association at that time.

maybe someone here old enough knows.

@JamesM
you alluded to verging on criminality not disclosing crash damage.
the documents with the car might get into that territory?
possible hoax dates back two decades?


EDIT
a clue.
amongst displayed documents.
looks to me like mid engined views (914 owners association newsletter) that has lost its cover.
dates from 2000 (stoddard ad)?
maybe this car has a story about it or pebble beach.
dates would be right.
if anyone has those from that time its probably in there?



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Yes, that's not a '73 speedo - should be 150MPH. Also, FWIW, '73s had silver PORSCHE lettering on the engine grille.

I was hesitant to think someone went to all the trouble to forge documents, but there's just too much wrong - including the way "Dick Barbour" was always inserted with a different font - even in the welcome letter. So George Duncan had so many new members to welcome (in 1973) that he pre-typed a supply of welcome letters and had them on hand to add names & dates? Using a different typewriter. Also, suspicious amount of extra info re: the Chrome Plated card holder and where you might put it.

But what finally convinced me is the proportional spacing.

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Ron

Spacing of modern fonts, they call it "hinting" where the font knows how close to put certain letters together.

There's an even more telling hint in your example, when an "f" and an "i' are typed next to each other the font will replace the 2 glyphs with a "smart ligature" which is a single character so the tip of the "f" sort of meshes with the dot of the "i". A typewriter would not do this.

Another tell is the double spaces between sentences. With a typewriter you would indeed have to put 2 spaces after a period to make it look right. A modern font, using hinting, automatically puts a larger space after a period. A lot of people put the 2 spaces in still — so many people that even young people that never used a typewriter think it's correct to do so. It ends up looking like there are 3 spaces (as a typewriter would make them) between sentences.

I'm a graphic designer by trade, and it strikes me as glaringly obvious that it's not legit.

Yes, and lots of other inconsistencies for a 1973.

not least being dick barbour speciality package item - rear reflector.

the rear reflector does not appear as a porsche feature until the 74MY G series 911.
commencing production 08/73.

alleged d b window sticker is dated 2/73.
the car is a 04/73.

somehow its a predated update?

I can't help but be amazed @ this POS car so far ,that work under the frunk is the death nail ,think the "resto " was more to carry out that repair ???.
Fake as car but some silly bugger will buy it and live in regret for sometime longer than after the purchase....pretty sad really .

what is the "Porsche Owners Association of Southern California" thing in the frunk? "Mark Lauritzen #1038 1973-1974" Pics 87, 88.