https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-pors...omment-11252547

It's an average driver condition 914....nothing to get excited about....$25K.

Unless you're a bidder, why would you? I've been on the receiving side as a seller from comments from the "peanut gallery" that were irrelevant, uninformed and unsolicited. They severely - and wrongly - impacted the sale price.

I know that listing on BaT is what is it and comments are part of the deal but unless you are an interested, serious bidder/buyer there, I'd generally encourage you to keep your involvement to read-only.

Comments on an auction can go both ways. We see a lot of puffery and either ignorance or intentional misrepresentations by sellers, and peanut gallery comments can sway the outcome up or down - some are authorities with factual infomation, others are just mischeivous with baseless opinions.

Even informed commenters can be way off. For example noting that an emblem isnt positioned right and questioning if there was a serious rear end collision at some point. I find these types of speculative comments to be rather distracting to that honest process of a commented auction.

Another detractor are claims that deviation from stock is an abberation that relegates the car to crap status. Swapping out to carbs does not make the car worth half what it would otherwise command.

All respect to others opinions.

and i am not a fan of carbs and would switch it back if i bought it, he states the original FI stuff is there and comes with the sale, not sure of its condition but this is not hard to do. I stay out of it no reason to distract from the sale and making statements of value of one vs the other is really not helpful to the sale of the vehicle. I agree with george this is a nice car for that year and looks to be a good candidate to dive and take to local shows maybe even more as he ssays with some work. AND he took the car to PMB and had it looked at. thats way more than most sellers here do. I like originality too, but overall condition is in some ways more important.

i will not comment on the thread maybe other than to say looks like a nice driver worth a $25K or even better price.

1. Why would it cost ten grand to reinstall the included fuel injection?
2. Why would the carbs cause the engine to "wear out" faster than the FI?

I get the car is worth more with its original FI in good working condition installed. But ten grand to reinstall the FI? Rediculous! Plus a well tuned carbed 914 will not just wear out like a cheap watch! I have had carb'd cars that went well over 200k miles and a 1.7l 914 w/carb that had 100k miles on the clock and still running fine.

I try to stay out of things I have no intention on bidding on and can't offer up anything helpful or at least insightful. But that's just me.

Agreed.

Looks like a really nice little car.
I really need to up the insurance on my car this year.
Zach

Looks like a buff and fluff up with the incorrect wheels if the spare is the factory original. Ruined a good car by removing the FI and putting on carbs, unless they did the engine work needed to replace the camshaft with one which needs dual carbs to produce real power. With that said, this car is illegal to register and license in California because all the smog control equipment has been removed. Does the seller have the original catalytic converter that is still in functional condition? He claims he has the FI system, but what about the original exhaust? He dodges the question by saying the car was first sold in Nevada, and then sold to a buyer in Utah. In politics, that's called deflection.

Well, it looks like the bidding has picked up as it's at $19,750 currently. Hopefully he's close enough to his reserve to let it go at this auction.

Well, it sold for $22,914 to someone. Let's hope he doesn't need to register and license it in California or another state which requires cars to have their factory original smog emissions systems on them. Getting the Porsche factory correct converter on the exhaust system may be a challenge. I wonder if there is an approved universal converter available for this car? Until recently, there wasn't one for air cooled VW buses and vanagons of the mid 1970's to early 1980's era.

A reflection of all that is bad about society today…
Mother said MYOB….and talk about hypocrisy.

No...and my hyprocrisy...at least for me....will only go so far.


Got a tee shirt that says that. Got it in Tombstone Arizona.

I agree...and in the non-secular world, if you have nothing good to say...don't say it.

@dr914 knows that Carbs are much better than Fuel injection

I'll be your Huckleberry......

You started it George. What's your point?

Washing the cylinder walls with fuel as it boils out of the cooking badly tuned carbs doesn't increase engine longevity.

BAT commentaries are amusing to read.
full of dissing. for all the obvious reasons.

the photos tell the story for the serious bidder.
and interestingly are building up a fabulous archive of historical material.
i think that is the best thing about BAT, whether intentional or not - apart from it being a very good functional instrument for selling a car.

the opinions expressed aren't worth the electrons they are printed on for the most part.
or serve little point - except when someone asks for a rockers off photo.
more serious problem solving gets done on this website which is fantastic in terms of getting to the bottom of things.

Your right .... LESS THAN . 5

TRUTH!

My definition of "Minions". BAT members with thousands, some exceeding tens of thousands, of comments that have never bought or sold anything on the site. Disruptors who have found a place to boost their ego's. People with opinions and lacking any significant knowledge. Some make early low bids knowing they will never win the auction. That's just another ego boost for them. It's sad that these uninformed disrupting "Minions" can negatively affect the price of the cars we enjoy.

As big of an EFI* fan as I am, I am amused at how the "EFI vs Carbs" has become such a flashpoint within this community.

I'm not sure how we got here, but this isse is becoming personal, aligned with political and religious debates, where we take personal offense if someone disagrees with our position. I suggest we need to stop doing that.

Someone new comes into the community, someone that legit doesn't know, sure we can INFORM them that the stock EFI is most assuredly now well-known and -supported (unlike 25 years ago). The legacy knee-jerk reaction to carb conversion based on ignorance of the systems and lack of support no longer applies, and we should ensure new owners understand that.

But in the end, if they're informed of the options then it's their car, and their choice. If you take personal offense at them not following your advice, then the problem is not with them...

We have a lot of induction options now, and it's growing. Let's ensure everyone is aware of those options and let them make their own decisions.

GA

*Let's be fair: I do chuckle at our calling the L-Jet and D-Jet "EFI" and the boxes "computers". That is correct in the core sense of the words, but seriously...in today's context, I think my high school calculator had higher computing power than these 25 or so transistors flying in formation pretending to be anything more complex than a POTS mechanical switching labyrinth...

It would be nice to see a list of all the parts/pieces in one place.
Pbanders site to links is no longer to valid suppliers of parts.

For Diet
MPS replacement (Bosch may be doing this now...they did for a bit)
TPS replacement
CHT
Injectors

make it easy and simple to buy a kit to redo and upgrade your FI components.

I just bought a gas tank, lines, bent lines etc from PP.
What they don't have is the fuel strainer, or the crush washers for those connections.

Seems simple, yet silly, to not have all the parts in one place/kit.
I found everything I need....but multiple vendors (which is dumb)

Injectors.
We need a new updated list of what to do...what to use, what replaces them etc etc.

I have a funny feeling that product support for carbs will start to fade in the next decade...so having Diet/Ljet replacement parts, instruction, help and support will enable people to keep things stock.

Struggling on the Volvo to find the temp sensor...its a unicorn.

Although there is "value" added by keeping the original system, I completely understand it will all be nla and unobtanium soon. However... Carbs vs efi isn't just stock efi. The real advantage of carbs has been cams with meaning. Modern efi bolt ons allow that as well. So I think the argument is more than just stock or carbs. Particularly with PMB etc getting in the game. Now cost and simplicity will normally point towards carbs but I would love me some real multiport non bank fire injection with a mass airflow sensor. Although I do have to say air-cooled engines from 50 years ago eat O2 sensors for breakfast.

yah, im not in agreement just yet.

The TPS board...someone makes new ones
The MPS diaphragm (the actually thing that breaks) Foley makes them...others do in the Volvo world....Bosch/AA/possibly others rebuild them.

The aftermarket keeps these old cars alive.
Look at the humble beginnings of 914rubber....one seal.
Now they make all sorts of stuff.

Rich

Dr914,
Why would you Post this? It should be Only posted on BAT And I bet they would take down the Post on BAT. Is Bashing somebody's car your Business Model? Oh I forgot you know everything..
914/Alan

Where did he bash it? @914 /Alan?

Matt

Matt,
I knew I would get backlash for my comment..
Why ask Our members to comment on this BAT discussion?
Maybe I am missing something? End of Discussion For me..
914/Alan




Mattquote name='mate914' date='Apr 21 2023, 12:23 PM' post='3072875']
Where did he bash it? @914 /Alan?

Matt


[quote name='914' post='3072870' date='Apr 21 2023, 03:13 PM']
Dr914,
Why would you Post this? It should be Only posted on BAT And I bet they would take down the Post on BAT. Is Bashing somebody's car your Business Model? Oh I forgot you know everything..
914/Alan
[/quote]
[/quote]

To be fair it is part of the auction model they employ and comments are an important part of the process. I personally take exception to when people overstate and provide conjecture instead of facts they can definitively prove. When i did my BAT auction some did that as well but i was certainly prepared for it and stuck to the facts. I think it is better than a no comment remote auction model.

It gets out of hand when people start picking on things and the seller either ignores or gets aggressive. That is the recipe for ugly.

I’ve only purchased once on bat. I didn’t even read any of the comments before, during or after. I called Peter Dawe, asked his opinion and bid on the parts. I especially don’t understand the people who comment with no intention to buy but to each their own.


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/996-gt3r-...rts-and-spares/

I don’t comment on BAT but what drives me nuts all the 63k miles shown (pick your mileage) nonsense. These cars are now 50 years old. To believe that there are so many sub 100k rollovers is wishful thinking. I’m not saying there aren’t low mileage collector cars out there, but somehow there are more of them than there were in the late 80s & early 90s. I was just much more obvious to try to claim low miles when the car was 14 years old, had worn tires, had faded paint, and 20k miles on the odo.

When a seller or BAT agrees and/or encourages listings with “XX,000 miles shown” nonsense, that is fair game for the comments to begin. Just my opinion. As stated, if comments weren’t part of the entertainment, BAT would get a whole lot fewer eyes and clicks which you can be sure they are monetizing.

Doesn't the Constitution guarantee free speech, even if it is total bullshit? At least with a car, it is more rationally focused & nobody really gets hurt, despite the claimed mileage. It's a form of modern horse trading.

New 914 owner means a dozen of the same already answered questions on Facebook!
"what tire size you runnin'" - "What's this hose go to" - "what the best....yada yada yada"


I do have one thing to add: while I prefer the FI, I have a couple 914s with carbs, 1911 weber 40s, 2270 dellorto 40s, and I currently have a bus with a 914 2056 weber 40s. All three of these started/start right up. I mash and hold, once or twice depending how long it has been, let off completely and turn the key. boom - starts. Runs rough for a bit, gen light on. 10-20 sec. in, blip throttle, little more. Then put it in gear and drive away...
I do the same on my 914-6 now, 3.0 hotrod with Weber 46s. Although I do let it sit and idle a lot longer. I can go a month and start with 2 maybe 3 full "press and holds"...
Maybe I'm just lucky...

I know carbs and never had a problem running dual 40’s on my 2 liter 4 with stock cams. I also ran 40’s on my 2.7 six with stock cams. Both motors ran fine and I preferred that setup over the antique fuel injection it came with. I do prefer the more modern stock fuel injection on my current 3.2 six. So I would not hesitate to buy this car on bat with carbs, but that’s just me. I admire the die hard guys on this site that keep that antique fuel injection alive, but carbs never left me stranded. Except this car is a 76, so I would never own it living in CA.

very true.

i know my hewlett packard 41CV has more grunt.
.......but to the credit of the L jet "brain" and the HP both are still going.
thats the incredible/admirable thing about some of the old 70s hardware and possibly really about the only rational reason for persisting. if indeed its rational.
its the fun of playing around with old tech.
carbies are the same fun. different old tech.
agree with your level handed view of things.
there are enough intact d and l jets running around for museum purposes.

besides the same engine ran around in europe in thousands of 411s and 412s with a twin carb set up, not to mention the factories own 914 version in the 74/75 1.8.
same could be said of all the old type 3 VWs. most of them had D jet in the USA, but not anywhere else in the world. 98% of them were the venerable twin carb set up down here in north antarctica. its not like the factory was biased. basically it had to have EFI for USA emissions. primary reason. there may have been other advantages but back then it was a very expensive system compared to a carby and often diagnosis at the dealers involved wholesale replacement of components - so it had it disadvantages too for your average joe driver/consumer.

How did I give you backlash? You lie about what people say. I don't even know Dr. 914, and he did nothing wrong!
I do however call out BS when I see it snowflake.
Matt

[quote name='914' date='Apr 21 2023, 05:47 PM' post='3072892']
Matt,
I knew I would get backlash for my comment..
Why ask Our members to comment on this BAT discussion?
Maybe I am missing something? End of Discussion For me..
914/Alan




Mattquote name='mate914' date='Apr 21 2023, 12:23 PM' post='3072875']
Where did he bash it? @914 /Alan?

Matt


[quote name='914' post='3072870' date='Apr 21 2023, 03:13 PM']
Dr914,
Why would you Post this? It should be Only posted on BAT And I bet they would take down the Post on BAT. Is Bashing somebody's car your Business Model? Oh I forgot you know everything..
914/Alan
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

Just to keep stirring, i dont think anyone that is in the "original fuel injection system or die" camp thinks it is the best system ever designed. It is truth however that original has value in the car world. A purity in how the factory designed and delivered the car. And if you want to live the experience as the factory intended it is your only choice. From a value perspective in original or fully restored cars that has to be the proper baseline too.

@wonkipop

HP-41CV awesome... I still use my HP-41CX to this very day... I have other RPN calculators for back up. RPN = reverse polish notation for those that don't know, the calculator has no "=" button. Extremely efficient for doing complex calculations like in engineering. Very few RPN calculators out there these days (SwissMicro is one) - once you understand and use this type of calculator you can't go back to using an =key calculator - only those that use RPN would understand this.

As for the carb vs FI debate, I have both so it doesn't matter which side of the fence I am on. I have to admit, after this winter, I was cursing the carbs trying to get the 74 started on a cold spring day. Crank and and ether, crank and ether, finally got it going. Yes I love the simplicity but carbs without chokes are a pain... The 73 with FI started without complaints...

Miss my HP48 GX - suddenly gave up the ghost a few years back. Stupid money for them on eBay. Cult status - just like 914s!

@vitamin914
@wonkipop

I used to work for Agilent (formerly HP) & HP calculators were all the rage in college & grad school back in the "70s. One of mine was actually stolen off my desk when I worked at Ampex in the "80s. I still use my 15C, but I don't program it anymore.

+ @Superhawk996 @windforfun (you calculator geeks )

i started with one of these in high school in 76.
couldn't afford a H P. unbelievably expensive in aus back then.
think this baby was an economy line by Texas Instruments.
was pretty good. started on RPN and can't even think with an equal sign calculator

Click to view attachment


when the Novus died sometime during university post grad days i had enough dosh to lash out on the HP. its still going strong. the enter button is a bit dodgy these days after 6 million miles of equations on the odo and i have to press it on the left hand side but she is still punching out the numbers and doing chain equations like no tomorrow.
great for checking dimension runs on shop drawings.

american engineering at its finest.

the 914 was probably designed using slide rulers?

Click to view attachment

OK you calculator nuts, I have an HP 11C. Anybody interested in it?

This discussion raises a couple of interesting questions:
1) Will those calculators survive an electromagnetic pulse event?
2) Will the D-jet ECU survive an electromagnetic pulse event?

I think my son’s Rolex can. It’s the Milgauss model. He was a physics major in college so he geeked out and bought it.

um...no, no it doesn't



Click to view attachment

@dgw


The last year the HP-11c was sold, 1989, the price was $56.00... punching that into the US CPI inflation calculator gives that as $136 in 2023 dollars.

Ebay has them used from $100-200, not bad for holding its value after 34 years !!!

This series of calculator was amazing.. the batteries in Voyager series (10c, 11c, 12c, 15c,16c) last forever - over 10 years for my 12c. business calc. Impressive for not being solar powered with only 0.25 mW power consumption.

Not sure what's worse, being a calculator nerd or 914 nerd... but at least I'm in good company...

good question - especially if you live in taiwan.

possibly can survive when it comes to cars.
the body of the car itself provides a kind of faraday cage protection.
i believe small electronic devices are less vulnerable too.
ie phones.
it is thought that phones can survive it.
however the transmission towers and larger infrastructure circuitry etc probably don't so a moot point?
if a phone can survive it then a calculator probably can too.

however if you had your 914 plugged into a battery charger hooked up to main power grid it would definitely get fried.

i read something on this very topic a couple of years ago during late phase of covid lockdown when things were getting tense with CCP and australian exports were being soft blockaded and hit with tariffs by china for our signing of the new AUKUS deal with the USA and Japan over military security in the south china sea and pacific.
there was talk of how china would use a nuclear device to generate an EMP over taiwan and what it would mean. most military equipment is hardened against EMP.