Mid or rear engine swaps out there?

Rich

You can't turbo a 914! (FIRST!)

Clay, if anybody can do this or knows about this it is probably you.
The thing is these Engen’s are fairly low in price for low miles and big HP whether you get a turbo or not. Can it be done without totally dicking with the rear suspension?

Inquisitive minds want to know

Bob B

This swap is a possibility for a build I have in mind. One issue is the factory location of the turbo and associated plumbing. It's all left side, at the front of the engine. Not a great spot for fitting in the 914 chassis.
Not that there isn't a way around it but it's not just the width thing.

I was just making a joke about putting a turbo on a 914.


If you really wanted to do this, then I would suggest using the whole rear suspension from a 718 and grafting it under the rear of the 914 chassis. The suspension pickups on a 914 are really close to the valve covers, and the 718 engine without the turbo is too wide.

By using the whole rear suspension from the 718, you get all the modern suspension geometry, and you can remove the space limiting inboard suspension pickup point on the 914 chassis. Plus, the transmission mounts on a 718 are hooked to the rear suspension members. You would have to fabricate a front mount, and the proper mount points for the 718 rear suspension, plus the shock towers. If you could get the mount points from an 718, it would make it easier.


Yes, I have thought about this. I have considered the idea of putting a 2006 Cayman S suspension under the rear of my 914-6 conversion. It would take a LOT time and effort.

suppose someone would want to use the 2.0 liter NA motor in a rear engine application.
What transmission would work?
It would be best to go to a smaller, older, air-cooled tranny (901 or 915)
I suppose a larger tranny could be done...its just metal to cut out of the way

Rich

The transmission is not the problem. I already worked that one out. It just takes a custom transmission mount.

The problem with the NA 718 motor is the width. I don't think it will fit between the inboard suspension console ears of a 914 chassis. I know a Boxster/Cayman six won't fit because it is too wide. I suspect the 718 motor is the same width, just shy two cylinders.

I was under the impression that a Cayman S six cylinder would actually fit between the 914 suspension mounts but it is so close that you could not use the standard coil pack set up on the 2 plugs that are closest to the suspension mounts.

You have to remote mount the coils and use a plug wire on those cylinders.

Changing the plugs requires lowering the engine assembly for access.

This is something I read somewhere. I haven't tried to do this yet, but the Cayman S swap is something that is high on my list for a drivetrain for my 76 wide body car.

Clay, your idea of a complete rear section swap looks like the best way to do this swap and I have many questions for you when I come up and visit.

Supposably, someone has made a water pumper six fit in a 914 with stock suspension mounts.

There was a guy in Australia I believe that put the boxster engine in a stock 914 and did have to remote the coil packs.

I am going to coil on plug for the 4.0L engine, and I am worried I am going to have to use a remote coil for the #2 exhaust plug. There may not be room to put the coil on it.

Yes, it is that narrow.

Ahhhh, but what if, for less than 10k all in (motor is 5k)
We could simply turbo a 914???

Or you could just buy a 718 Turbo 4 Boxster/Cayman, Drive it, (they are rocket ships and handle phenomenally) and leave the 914 alone.

Click to view attachment

Upside, it's a Porsche flat four rather than an "off-brand" swap. The 718 fours are also underrated—they may be "throbby," but they're four-cam PORSCHE flat fours (consider what people pay for those in 356s, 550s, 718s, 904s, etc). Now add four valves per cylinder, variable valve timing and lift, EFI, direct injection, and…oh…turbocharging and intercooling. And variable turbocharging in the case of the 2.5s…yet the 2.0 is plenty quick when mounted in a modern 718.

Otoh, I happen to be a fan of cool off-brand engine swaps. Also for the record, I seem to remember liking the 2005~ 2.5-liter STi engine for North America better in terms of character than the 718 engines—it felt smoother and sounded better. IIRC, it was nicer, smoother*, and sounded better and a lot more expensive than the 2.0-liter flat four in my 2003 WRX, too—bizarrely reminding me of a mini 996 Turbo engine rather than two-thirds of one. It also avoided the 2.0-liter's lack of low-down/off-boost grunt. Just a gem of an engine.

Good power, too. Can only imagine an STi engine in a lighter, mid-engined 914 vs an AWD sedan…let alone a tuned one

There's also a lot of support and motorsport development around the Subaru engine, and quite a few people have figured out getting it to work in the 914. I hear nothing but good things, and despite having done a six conversion sometimes think it might be the ultimate engine for a 914.

Well, besides a Ferrari V8.





*Also IIRC from the UK magazines in period, the "smoothness" of that generation of STi engines was hugely dependent on the exhaust layout, possibly on the way to the turbo? I guess some special editions altered that and got a lot less smooth and a lot more throbby. So I'd take a good long look at the exhaust used on the early US STi (2005, I think?), and wonder if that could be applied to a 718 engine in the process of bringing it into a 914 if it's just gotta be a Porsche engine. Would be worth it to me to get rid of the throb, but I always wonder what secret sauce is lost as one starts fiddling with Weissach's optimization, especially in recent years. Even with the potential gains to be had out of not needing to meet the same regulatory requirements the factory engineers did. They don't call 'em wizards for nothing…

^ Truth.

The turbo Boxsters and Caymans will get off a corner unlike any of the NA flat sixes, and give the driver options other than waiting for torque to develop, slowly. Now add that magical Boxster/Cayman balance.

I prefer the sound of the flat sixes, but if I didn't have kids and was going to have one sports car to do it all without a lot of hassle (i.e. an autox and track day car that could be driven daily or cross country when needed), a 718 would be top of list.

Turbo 914-6 in progress....

Click to view attachment

Wow! loving this.

Bob B

@aturboman
OK! so where is you build thread for this cool project??

What is the difference between a 3.0 liter SC motor and the turbo (aside from the turbo)?
Can an SC motor be built the same?

@horizontalky-opposed
4-cam, variable valve, with ITBs
Just dreaming

I need to see if it fits.

Crankcase and bottom end is different but you can easily turbo an SC engine as well

ITBs + whatever Subaru did on the exhaust side to get rid of the throb. Water/air intercooler, maybe? Could be super cool. Smaller twinned turbochargers could be interesting but wholly unnecessary. Still, I can see @tygaboy arranging them in some super cool looking way.

However one feels about the purported end of internal-combustian engines, we sure have been spoiled for choice when it comes to mass-produced long blocks that are likely to outlast the complicated cars they're installed in. Light, efficient (VE is off the charts), and powerful. For me, it kind of began with the SHO V6 by Yamaha and extends forward from there through the LS400 V8 to the myriad of great 6- and 8-cylinder long blocks and complete engines from the last 25~ years that are sitting in junkyards across the USA…

That goes for Porsche, too. Good flat fours and sixes plus some very good inline fours, V6s, and V8s. All are or can be made powerful, some even sing…

Does anyone have access to a 718/4 engine?
Need measurements.

Rich

I was literally shopping for 718 engines on ebay and thinking about this exact swap before seeing this post. I'll be following this closely.

I've seen both of Tom's cars in person and both are beautiful.

BTW Tom, when you lent me your spare 914 half shaft last year the half shaft of my 914 disconnected, I had to 'borrow' one of the drive pins from the half shaft. Not only that, after transporting the half shaft from my daughter's house to work to give to you, I noticed a ball bearing in the trunk so I think I owe you a CV ball bearing as well.