I am at a crossroads at the moment. Once I get my Mini Clubman back on the road, I am planning on finally getting on my ‘75 with rust elimination/mitigation. While I’m doing this, it would be the perfect time to make the modifications necessary to do a Subaru conversion, but I’m torn.

My issue is this: if I keep the Type IV 2.0L, I’ll bump it to a 2056 with factory FI. The car won’t be the original color, and I plan to do other minor mods, so not looking for a correct restoration. However, I’m afraid I’ll eventually want more power, but don’t want to spend the big bucks on a 6 conversion. OR I can modify the tub while it’s all apart and do a Subie conversion. I’m just torn between the two.

My main questions are as follows:
- For those of you who did the Subaru conversion, what was the deciding factor?
- Do you regret doing it?
- Any real issues?

Is there anyone who hasn’t done it that wishes they had?

My main concern used to be losing the frunk, but this car will mainly be for day trips, so not a big deal. The additional power would be nice, and with needing to rebuild my 2.0L anyway, that money would go a ways for the conversion. I know factory 2.0L’s are getting harder to find, especially with factory FI, and with prices going up, makes it a harder decision, so I would like honest opinions, and pictures would be great!

Thanks!

Adding a radiator doesn’t mean you loose the entire front trunk. Maybe the front third. You can still mount a collapsible spare against the fuel tank bulkhead.

*I’ll be selling everything to do a Suby SVX conversion. Engine, trans, axles, cable shifter, radiator, etc. as one big kit, priced less than it cost me. I sold the car that I was going to convert so now it’s time to sell the Suby parts.

Just curious?

how does a Subi vs /6 stack up powerwise.

Assuming basically stock components

That's a tall question. Which six? Which Subi motor?

A stock 2.0L six motor will be outclassed HP wise by any Subi motor. But a 3.6 will have more power than the majority of the Subi motors.

My opinion, and it is just that, an opinion..... the best conversion is a Euro 3.2 with the original Motronic injection, paired to a 915 with the Martin Bott conversion kit. If you use factory heat exchangers, you lose a little HP due to the tubes being too small. Other than the Martin Bott trans conversion, it is all factory parts. It will be reliable and fun.

And I don't like the way 915s shift. But that is my hangup.

The SVX engine that I have is almost the same weight and hp as a 3.2 Carrera engine. About 450 lbs and 210 hp.

3.2 with the original Motronic injection.$20-30k
915 with the Martin Bott conversion kit. $12-15k
$32-45k

Similar 3.3 Suby engine with similar 5 speed transmission
Subaru engine - $1-2k
Subaru trans - $1k
$2-3k

Both conversions will need additional parts to install in the car.

PM sent

- For those of you who did the Subaru conversion, what was the deciding factor?
Cost, Cost, Cost
- Do you regret doing it?
Not no way, not no how.
- Any real issues?
Not if you have thick skin.

Here is the kicker. You can replace an entire Subaru engine for less that $1500. You can't buy parts for your Type 4 for that amount. Reliability is another. Reach in the window and start your Subaru engine., Try that with a Type 4 or a carbed 6. If you want to attend distant 914 events you won't need to bring a truckload of spare parts. I could go on & on. Check out Subaru Powered Porsches & Watered Down 914's on FaceBook for a detailed insight.

in stock non-turbo form:

The classic ej20 was about 120hp. Hundreds of thousands of them exist and they were the popular option to put into VW buses. A subi ej2.2 was about 130 hp. A ej2.5 was about 150-165 depending on the year. Produced for over a decade these things are all over the place and pretty reliable.
When you want to add turbos to the mix power figures tend to jump to about 400hp (crank) before things start breaking.

I've driven a couple 914s now with subaru engines. They are totally different cars. The higher HP cars are rocket ships. Faster to be sure, but not necessarily better then a T4 powered 914. It really depends what you want out of the car.

Zach

I have all the parts needed to make a Subaru EZ30R conversion. PM me to discuss if you like.

All great information, hope this answered some of the questions for the OP, know it did for me and I am sure others.

This board rocks

About the same for the same displacement. Subi 6 is based on the Porsche 6 so the power band is similar... mostly up top.

Stock Subi 2.5L is 175hp, which makes for a fun sports car. The 3.0L is 220hp IIRC which is more fun and feels and alot like a Porsche 6. The Subi trans is decades better and near perfect with cable shift. The 2.5L turbo gets wicked fast.

There are expenses with axles and mounts/cradle and the Link ECU, plus wiring, but you end up with a modern drivetrain with parts found everywhere if you need one. Drivability is also decades better with modern FI.

You lose about half with the rad in the frunk but you can still have a usable frunk with ducting.

My 3.0L is torquey enough that I start in 2nd and use 3rd mostly around town.

Yeah, it definitely answered some questions. I didn’t realize you only lost part of the front trunk as the ones I recall seeing utilized the entire bottom of the trunk for a radiator.

I guess with everything that needs to be done for the conversion, total cost is around 10K? I’m definitely not doing a Porsche six conversion as the engines alone are now going for at least that! I would like reliability and while I know the Type IVs can be that, you’ll spend 8-10K tog er it to that point and then you’re still dealing with 50 year old tech.

I’ve owned 2 Subies in the past: ‘98 Outback and ‘05 Outback XT. I loved both cars, but definitely loved the XT more due to the Turbo, which would beat my parent’s 3.0R, but mine was a manual. I would probably stick a four banger and most likely a 2.5 Turbo, just not sure how difficult it is to make the turbo work properly.

Definitely leaning towards the conversion so I can have something that uber reliable and cheap to repair as I’m getting over keeping it original and just making it mine.

Any pics?

If you go this route I highly suggest that you buy a running donor car. CoPart is a good source. The EZ 6's are 300K engines if treated correctly. The USA models all came with automatics and were in Subaru's upper line cars so they are usually in good shape. If you buy a donor then you have the harness and ECU complimentary not to mention a hoard of other items. You can sell the shell to a junkyard after you cannibalize it.

EG33 Engine - top end reseal, water pump, belts, gaskets, etc, $1,000, small car header $700, custom bulkhead engine mount $500, engine to chassis harness $750, pressure plate and clutch $400. Custom radiator and fan pack $400, etc,
$3,750

5mt Impreza trans $400, axles, starter, locking differential sleeve & rear block off plate $400, cable shifter & Suby shifter - $400 - $1,200

Doesn't have to be $10K. My "kit" is probably 95% complete for $3K.

My parents are on their second 6-cyl., only because the first was rear ended. I would prefer FI, but that comes with its own challenges.

So far, everyone is doing a good job of moving the needle towards a Subaru conversion.

Stellar deal, Mark! If mine wasn't almost there, I'd be all over this. GLWTS!

You have to cut the trunk to fit the turbo as is. You can move it but that is more fab work though I think there is a dune buggy style exhaust manifold that fits. Also a water-to-air intercooler and plumbing. Not enough good airflow for stock air-to-air.

Budget is more like $5-6k.

Too much power and you need more tire, which means flares and new wheels and paint and it just snowballs...

You do not have to cut the trunk to have the turbo. I limited mine to 300 HP, and will take on about any 6 that is out there. Only the V-8's will probably smoke me. If I upgrade the trans, I'll bump to 350 and up the torque number.

My car is all over YouTube, when it only had 215 HP. it was a rocket then and it's even quicker now. 22 lbs boost. Go Subaru you won't regret it. Mine is an EJ 20 from a WRX 2004.

22# of boost

Does she have wings?

I don't care for them. I had a 2.0 and then a 2056cc in my 914 for over twenty years. The car was great but not fast. If you want a fast car why not just buy a Subi? I think you should be able to do what ever you want to your car. You want a subi in a 914, Im ok with that.

Matt

I was looking at Coldwater 914 and the conversion pieces are VERY reasonably priced. Anyone used their stuff? It definitely favors doing the conversion, which I’m leaning more towards as I do research. I realize I’ll probably need to upgrade the brakes and do a 5-lug conversion, which isn’t cheap. What kind of power can the stock brakes handle? I’m not looking to build a 300+ horsepower monster, but if I do the conversion, I will most likely be around 250.

It sucks I didn’t decide on this last year as that’s when my parent’s 3.0R was rear ended and totaled! Would have been a cheap donor, engine-wise anyway.

The 914 is a great chassis and has a certain feeling other cars don’t, mainly due to the mid-engine layout. One can’t get that with a Subaru. I’m usually big into originality, but with Porsches, that usually comes at a hefty price in the end, and 914’s are no longer the exception.

I have the complete 2.0L engine and factory FI, which is a big plus, but part me are getting harder to find and upping the power, even to a 2056, is a couple grand in parts/machine work alone. I’m getting to that point where I wouldn’t mind something that is a little faster, but also very reliable with more modern components. A six conversion is out as the engines alone are going for 15-20K, minimum, used. I know you can find some that are less, but even those are going to need work before installing.

While there’s definitely something to be said for originality/using Porsche parts for the conversions, price is definitely a factor for me and I don’t need the prestige.

I know these cars are fun and great to drive in the natural form, I loved mine when it was my daily 23 years ago. That being said, a restomod is more appealing, especially with more modern components.

Ian at ColdWater makes very good products. He doesn't visit this site often but is very active on FaceBook. You might consider trying the 4 lug brake system before you invest in a 5 lug system.

HP doesn’t really play into the braking equation. It’s weight/mass and velocity. If your car stays the same weight and you drive the same speed, the braking needs stay the same. A six cylinder engine adds about the same weight as an adult passenger. Before you spend thousands on brake upgrades, assess your needs and see if you can get there with a braking system in tip top shape with great pads.

I do it all the time

That's one of the main reasons I went with the Motronic FI on my 3.2. Lean in window, verify car in neutral with brake on, turn key, starter engages for a second or so and engine fires up nicely. No drama-ever.

Dang Mark, that’s an awesome deal. If my finances weren’t such a dumpster fire. Don’t tell my type IV I said that.

That's what they all say Rich. However, I'll bet the PMB built 4's are good starters with their modern day electronics package that @Eric_Shea is installing. Otherwise the ol' T4's are as moody as a teenage girl.

I’m definitely leaning more towards the EZ30D with the swap, mainly due to mechanical throttle and non-CANBUS. There is someone on YouTube currently doing an EZ30R swap and trying to maintain the VVT and VVL systems. I’m curious about this route as it’ll give smoother power delivery across the RPM range, but then there’s more to potentially go wrong.

While a 3.2L air cooled swap would be great, finding one is damn near impossible right now and when you do find one, it’s around 20K just for the engine.

I know the value of 914’s are on the rise, especially ones that are running factory FI, but that’s not my motivation. I love the styling of the 914 (always have) and the capability of the chassis. There is a reason Porsche went to water cooling and given how very reasonable/affordable dropping a Subaru 6 in the car with around 225+/- HP and similar torque is, it’s the better way for me to go. I originally thought about going with a turbo 4, but, again, not AS reliable as the 6, but not far off. Plus, the six sounds great!

Building a Type IV to even come close to the 200 mark is very expensive as well and, IMHO, wouldn’t have the same reliability. This car is going to be a fair weather car, so trunk space isn’t as important and I have found some radiator examples that only take up about 1/3 - 1/2 the front trunk.

What have been other people’s experience with this?

What do you do about heat in these conversions?

Click to view attachment

I assume that’s a water-to-air intercooler? Did you build that yourself or is it a modified piece from something else? Looks good! Does it utilize a second radiator or share the same one for the engine?

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I assume that’s a water-to-air intercooler? Did you build that yourself or is it a modified piece from something else? Looks good! Does it utilize a second radiator or share the same one for the engine?
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It’s a heater core adapted to fit into the stock 914 fresh air blower assembly. This will provide heat and defrost.

With a water cooled 914, it’s super easy to add AC and heat. The under dash AC units also have a built in heater core. Just get the external electric heater valve and put it in the engine compartment and run the heater lines in the heater tubes. Run the AC lines through the rocker like the dealer did.

This all sounds very persuasive.

Or, if you intend to use the AC that comes with the Subaru engine then use the style evaporator that houses a heater core. You'll also enjoy the huge electrical bonus that the Subaru alternator provides so you can easily add heated seats. Re: lost trunk space. I wouldn't give it much thought. This won't be your family car or the car that you will use for most of your travels. It will be a purpose built car and those few times that you do drive it X-Country you'll make do. When push came to shove I bought an extra trunk lid and installed a luggage rack on upon it. FWIW, I've used it once. It hangs off the garage ceiling looking at me nowadays. Proper use of an assortment of duffel bags will be all that you need. And yes, I carry a full size spare too. Re: Cable actuated TB; Jeff Robenolt on FB pages that I mentioned previously makes a kit for the R series engine so that you can retain the cable throttle system. I prefer the cable vs DBW system as I don't experience "rev hang" syndrome.

Is the 25HP difference between the 30D and 30R that noticeable? I see there’s only a 6ft/lbs difference in torque.

Concerning the engine/ trans cradle, is Renegade’s any better than Coldwater’s? It’s almost double! I’m planning on starting the parts acquisition phase in a bit and also put my 2.0L engine, FI, etc up for sale (possibly). This discussion has definitely moved me towards the Subie conversion, plus the videos I’ve seen so far. The weight difference doesn’t seem too bad, about 100-130 lbs additional ( including radiator, coolant, lines, etc)?

As for the loss in luggage space up front, yeah, I’ll not concerned. At most, it’ll be a long weekend car. I have no intention of taking it cross country, but life can throw some curve balls, so who knows? I would love to keep heart and add A/C! Heated seats would be an added bonus as well! While I intend it to be a dry weather car, it would be nice to drive it in all temps!

Radiator full of water and the fans only weigh 20 lbs or so.

The R w/vvt should have a flatter torque curve which would be more overall power. If you can find dyno sheets for both it might help you pick one.

I was just trying to see if what I was finding in the difference between a T4 and Subaru did was accurate, weight wise, for the total system.

As for the flatter torque curve, I could see that as that’s why the auto manufacturers went to those systems around the same time, we’ll, the VVL. VVT has been there since the mid 90’s with BMW.

It would be nice to see some actual numbers, though. I would imagine the 30D would be a less expensive swap? Less custom wiring/programming? Wiring I can do no problem, but custom programming? Nope.

Kent call me a liar if you will, but next I can get myself to another WCR finally, you can reach-around & try for for yourself

Btw if it's not a track car the 901 can take up to 300hp easily its really the torq that will kill it.

250-300hp in a 914 is great, keep it light and fun

I believe you and there are a few but they are rare as Hen's Teeth. You do know that you probably just Jinxed yourself!

I think if I go the 901 route, I’ll need to rebuild it as I remember 2nd giving me (slight) issues. I like the idea, and I assume you can use the original shift rod setup? How much better is the Subaru transmission ( if at all)? I vaguely remember both of my Subies shifting well. That being said, if I go the Subie route, what does one use for the clutch master/slave setup? I assume I would have to go with a hydraulic setup/retrofit, regardless of which transmission I use, Subie or Porsche. How does one do this with the 901?

Resurrecting this thread to ask something I can’t seem to find right now: with the Subie 6, what parts do I need out of the donor car? I know engine, DME, engine wire harness, alt., A/C compressor (I’d like working A/C). Anything else? Currently looking at a car with 200K on the engine and is cheap due to a rusty subframe. Not too concerned about the mileage.

What year and model?

Just got my third 914 the past thirty years. It has a 280HP JDMEJ20K STI engine. It’s AMAZING!!!

I snagged a bunch of hardware (nuts/bolts) before I scrapped my donor. They’ve proven extremely useful during the project and are a good quality. You may want to grab what you can before you get rid of it.

I’m looking at a 2002 Outback 3.0 with the EZ30D. I don’t know if it’ll still be available by the time I can go look at it later this week. I just want to know what I need to strip off of it for the conversion as I MAY try to sell other things off of it to try and recoup some of the purchase price, if anything is worth it.

Grab the fuel filter canister w/ mount, ECU, main wiring harness incl, the fuel pump regulator mounted behind the left side rear panel (where the passengers head would be appx.) and the motor mounts. On that model the temp gage can be extracted from the gage panel and inserted in the case of a 914 clock. Also, any grommets that you can salvage come in handy during construction.